When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
Maelstrom Pulse is actually in the cube. I forgot that I temporarily "borrowed" it for FNM (Standard).
Mortify and Vampire Lacerator are also in the cube, just missing from my list for some reason. (I just got a foil Mortify, in fact). I seemed to have missed a whole stack of cards when I was scanning in foils. Thus, Deep Analysis, Oblivion Ring and Day of Judgment are in the cube (see the pictures), but they are new foils, so they probably weren't listed accidentally.
Wildfire, Swans, Hearth Kami, Stormbind, Temporal Spring, and Nezumi Shortfang were HIGHLY unpopular in my cube - they were getting NO play at all.
Jace's Ingenuity is an experiment that may switch back.
Maelstrom Pulse Mortify Stormbind Vampire Lacerator
Nezumi Shortfang Deep Analysis
Twinblade Slasher
Hearth Kami Wildfire Day of Judgment Oblivion Ring Maze of Ith
Are still in the cube. Especially the bold ones, which have no business getting cut, IMO.
Hopefully all these: Maelstrom Pulse Mortify Stormbind Vampire Lacerator
Nezumi Shortfang Deep Analysis
Twinblade Slasher
Hearth Kami Wildfire Day of Judgment Oblivion Ring Maze of Ith
Are still in the cube. Especially the bold ones, which have no business getting cut, IMO.
Maelstrom Pulse, Mortify, Vampire Lacerator, Deep Analysis, Twinblade Slasher, Day of Judgment, Oblivion Ring, and Maze of Ith are all in the cube.
Stormbind, Nezumi Shortfang, Hearth Kami, and Wildfire have all been in the cube at some point and all been cut. I use my cube every week, play about a dozen games and in the last two months, Stormbind has seen play ONCE. Same story with Nezumi Shortfang. The overwhelming sentiment is that these two cards are terribly underpowered - Rift Bolt, Volcanic Hammer, Sulfuric Vortex, Duress, Mind Twist, and Thoughtseize are regularly played, however.
Hearth Kami along with Mogg Fanatic suffered the power dip that came with no combat damage on the stack. However unjustified it might be, the *perceived* power level is that Mogg Fanatic is unplayable and Hearth Kami is far worse than Ember Hauler and paying 1R + CMC to destroy an artifact isn't worth it. I'm barely able to justify Rakka Mar's position in the cube; Hearth Kami and Mogg Fanatic are just seen as Grizzly Bears with marginal abilities.
Wildfire, Desolation Angel, and Armageddon have all been suggested at various points and players will actively draft the card, to hate it, and it sits in the sideboard never used. Pinpoint land destruction is seen as "fair" - you can combat it with aggro, counterspells, and artifact mana. Global land destruction is universally hated with a passion that is, well, over the top, but it seen as absolutely unfun and something you just can't fight very well in say, a black green aggro-control deck. Wildfire gets cast on turn 5 and you just don't have an answer.
Other exclusions:
Artifacts/Enchantments/art+enchant hate: There's a reason why Mortify, Putrefy, Maelstrom Pulse, and even Creeping Mold get played but Naturalize and Disenchant don't. They're seen as stupidly narrow cards that are unsexy, boring to draft, and only useful against the *really* unfair cards.
Force + Jace TMS + Kokusho + Wasteland + Dual lands all fall into the $$ issue. The next big expenditure is still going to be getting the last five dual lands when I can, although other smaller changes keep coming up.
Lilianna Vess is my personal choice. I have not had a single game in all the times I have played with her or against her make ANY difference at all, except for the games when playing her was clearly a mistake when a different 5-drop should have been played. The cycle is broken with her exclusion, but her power level in comparison to other cards is just so low I can't justify her to my own liking, let alone to the other cube drafters.
Bone Shredder was replaced by instant removal (either Rend Flesh or Eyeblight's Ending) and overwhelmingly approved; Bone Shredder was a 2B sorcery to destroy a creature that didn't kill creatures like Putrid Leech.
Wild Nacatl + Broodmate Dragon - I'm sticking to two colors.
Sol Ring and Umezawa's Jitte are excluded because their power level were just off the charts for too many players. At one time I actually DID have Naturalize, Disenchant, Kor Sanctifiers, and Keldon Vandals in the cube, when I also had Umezawa's Jitte in the cube. But, that was still very unsatisfactory to some players and I actually had people quit playing cube forever because matches turned into "I drafted Sol Ring; I win" and "You drafted Jitte; I lose".
The overwhelming sentiment is that these two cards are terribly underpowered
That's too bad, because they're not.
I'm barely able to justify Rakka Mar's position in the cube
That's fine. Rakka Mar is not that good. Fanatic and Kami are better.
The M10 "perception" against those guys is unjustified. They still both play just fine.
Naturalize and Disenchant don't
They should. Even against mundane targets, it's still solid removal that can hit very problematic cards.
Force + Jace TMS + Kokusho + Wasteland + Dual lands all fall into the $$ issue.
That's understandable. Sometimes stuff is too expensive.
Lilianna Vess is my personal choice. I have not had a single game in all the times I have played with her or against her make ANY difference at all, except for the games when playing her was clearly a mistake when a different 5-drop should have been played. The cycle is broken with her exclusion, but her power level in comparison to other cards is just so low I can't justify her to my own liking, let alone to the other cube drafters.
Shocking. She's been great here. Repeatable discard and tutoring? Sign me up.
Bone Shredder was replaced by instant removal (either Rend Flesh or Eyeblight's Ending) and overwhelmingly approved; Bone Shredder was a 2B sorcery to destroy a creature that didn't kill creatures like Putrid Leech.
Removal on a stick is great, because it's so easy to abuse. Trading with a 1-toughness creature and killing a medium sized one is totally fine.
Sol Ring and Umezawa's Jitte are excluded because their power level were just off the charts for too many players.
I don't agree with this, but I understand it, and won't argue for their inclusion.
Wild Nacatl + Broodmate Dragon - I'm sticking to two colors.
Too bad. All 5 of my shard cards do very well.
I actually had people quit playing cube forever because matches turned into "I drafted Sol Ring; I win" and "You drafted Jitte; I lose".
That's so sad. If you lose to Jitte, that's your fault for building a deck that can't compete with it. Maybe playing cards like Disenchant will help with this.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
I don't like how the Butcher's effect can be reversed by a lightning bolt or wrath or whatever and then they get their creature back. At least when they kill your Clique you are the one to get something out of it. Also, the evasion and extra point of power are nice.
+ Puppeteer Clique
+ Hearth Kami
+ Wild Nacatl
+ Great Sable Stag
+ Kor Sanctifiers
+ Disenchant
+ Naturalize
+ Ponder
+ Preordain
+ Mogg Fanatic
+ Black Knight
+ Tinker
+ Umezawa's Jitte
+ Sol Ring
Faceless Butcher's best use was as a "counter" to Bribery, which is pretty poor, actually. Mesmeric Fiend was pretty underwhelming, too. I'm going to try Mogg Fanatic again and see how it performs. I added more artifact removal and put back Sol Ring and Umezawa's Jitte. I'll see how that goes after a few weeks of playing. I think Sprout Swarm was a "win-more" card in the cube, so really can't be justified. By the time you could afford to get 1 or 2 Saprolings a turn, you were probably doing pretty well on the battlefield. I've had Tinker ever since I got the FTV: Exiled set and haven't gotten a chance to use it. The last time I used Tinker was to a top 16 at a PTQ, using Tinker to get Platinum Angel and equipping her with Lightning Greaves against one opponent who managed to get a turn 4 Battle of Wits against me. I'm hoping to relive some of that glory, only now using Tinker to get Sundering Titan against greedy 4C Control decks and other ridiculous plays.
Quote from eidolon232 »
The clique has been crazy good around here and has won a lot of games with little other help. If one takes into account that you also wanted to add the card yourself in yesterday's update, I would rather remove something else, like the cards cuttups mentioned.
The other changes look good and I don't think you will regret giving some of those cards another chance.
I agree. I remember many games with "play Slaughter Pact, play Puppeteer Clique, win?" Puppeteer Clique seems to have better synergy with removal than Faceless Butcher and doesn't sit back on the sidelines, afraid to die like Faceless Butcher.
After adding Stormbind back to the cube, I played five straight games against one of my friends and in the fifth game I drafted and played with Stormbind.
Okay, I'm sold. It's good and shouldn't be cut. I attacked him down to 11, played Stormbind, played an end of turn Fact or Fiction to fill my hand with three more cards (taking 3 lands over two creatures!) and with 8 lands and 5 cards, my opponent took one more turn to hope to draw into an answer and then scooped.
Another serious power boost for your cube.
I am currently not playing with Naturalize, since unlike white, green has already a lot of creatures that can destroy artifacts and or enchantments.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
Yeah I'll second that the multicolour section isn't worth upgrading to 60 cards just for those additions. I would add more single colour cards or artifacts.
Thanks for the advice. I dropped all the cards you suggested (except for the Leonin Skyhunter which I dropped instead of Kor Aeronaut), putting the multicolored back at 50 and each colored section back at 55.
I'm just trying to figure out what artifacts to add at this point.
I know for sure I'd like to get Sword of Light and Shadow and Scroll Rack, but I'm going to go through other people's cube lists for ideas for more artifacts I'm missing.
Mortify and Vampire Lacerator are also in the cube, just missing from my list for some reason. (I just got a foil Mortify, in fact). I seemed to have missed a whole stack of cards when I was scanning in foils. Thus, Deep Analysis, Oblivion Ring and Day of Judgment are in the cube (see the pictures), but they are new foils, so they probably weren't listed accidentally.
Wildfire, Swans, Hearth Kami, Stormbind, Temporal Spring, and Nezumi Shortfang were HIGHLY unpopular in my cube - they were getting NO play at all.
Jace's Ingenuity is an experiment that may switch back.
Are still in the cube. Especially the bold ones, which have no business getting cut, IMO.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Maelstrom Pulse, Mortify, Vampire Lacerator, Deep Analysis, Twinblade Slasher, Day of Judgment, Oblivion Ring, and Maze of Ith are all in the cube.
Stormbind, Nezumi Shortfang, Hearth Kami, and Wildfire have all been in the cube at some point and all been cut. I use my cube every week, play about a dozen games and in the last two months, Stormbind has seen play ONCE. Same story with Nezumi Shortfang. The overwhelming sentiment is that these two cards are terribly underpowered - Rift Bolt, Volcanic Hammer, Sulfuric Vortex, Duress, Mind Twist, and Thoughtseize are regularly played, however.
Hearth Kami along with Mogg Fanatic suffered the power dip that came with no combat damage on the stack. However unjustified it might be, the *perceived* power level is that Mogg Fanatic is unplayable and Hearth Kami is far worse than Ember Hauler and paying 1R + CMC to destroy an artifact isn't worth it. I'm barely able to justify Rakka Mar's position in the cube; Hearth Kami and Mogg Fanatic are just seen as Grizzly Bears with marginal abilities.
Wildfire, Desolation Angel, and Armageddon have all been suggested at various points and players will actively draft the card, to hate it, and it sits in the sideboard never used. Pinpoint land destruction is seen as "fair" - you can combat it with aggro, counterspells, and artifact mana. Global land destruction is universally hated with a passion that is, well, over the top, but it seen as absolutely unfun and something you just can't fight very well in say, a black green aggro-control deck. Wildfire gets cast on turn 5 and you just don't have an answer.
Other exclusions:
Artifacts/Enchantments/art+enchant hate: There's a reason why Mortify, Putrefy, Maelstrom Pulse, and even Creeping Mold get played but Naturalize and Disenchant don't. They're seen as stupidly narrow cards that are unsexy, boring to draft, and only useful against the *really* unfair cards.
Force + Jace TMS + Kokusho + Wasteland + Dual lands all fall into the $$ issue. The next big expenditure is still going to be getting the last five dual lands when I can, although other smaller changes keep coming up.
Lilianna Vess is my personal choice. I have not had a single game in all the times I have played with her or against her make ANY difference at all, except for the games when playing her was clearly a mistake when a different 5-drop should have been played. The cycle is broken with her exclusion, but her power level in comparison to other cards is just so low I can't justify her to my own liking, let alone to the other cube drafters.
Bone Shredder was replaced by instant removal (either Rend Flesh or Eyeblight's Ending) and overwhelmingly approved; Bone Shredder was a 2B sorcery to destroy a creature that didn't kill creatures like Putrid Leech.
Wild Nacatl + Broodmate Dragon - I'm sticking to two colors.
Sol Ring and Umezawa's Jitte are excluded because their power level were just off the charts for too many players. At one time I actually DID have Naturalize, Disenchant, Kor Sanctifiers, and Keldon Vandals in the cube, when I also had Umezawa's Jitte in the cube. But, that was still very unsatisfactory to some players and I actually had people quit playing cube forever because matches turned into "I drafted Sol Ring; I win" and "You drafted Jitte; I lose".
You guys should play it more. It's really good.
That's too bad, because they're not.
That's fine. Rakka Mar is not that good. Fanatic and Kami are better.
The M10 "perception" against those guys is unjustified. They still both play just fine.
They should. Even against mundane targets, it's still solid removal that can hit very problematic cards.
That's understandable. Sometimes stuff is too expensive.
Shocking. She's been great here. Repeatable discard and tutoring? Sign me up.
Removal on a stick is great, because it's so easy to abuse. Trading with a 1-toughness creature and killing a medium sized one is totally fine.
I don't agree with this, but I understand it, and won't argue for their inclusion.
Too bad. All 5 of my shard cards do very well.
That's so sad. If you lose to Jitte, that's your fault for building a deck that can't compete with it. Maybe playing cards like Disenchant will help with this.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
- Mirrorweave
+ Absorb
- Rain of Tears
+ Hymn to Tourach
- Akrasan Squire
+ Blade of the Sixth Pride
- Rumbling Slum
+ Stormbind
- Withered Wretch
+ Nantuko Shade
- Puppeteer Clique
+ Nezumi Shortfang
- Kagemaro
+ Liliana Vess
- Rakdos Pit Dragon
+ Wildfire
+ Sundering Titan
These all seemed like pretty easy changes to made that make the cube better.
I'll talk a look at more artifacts and more artifact destruction in the near future.
Draft my cube!
Watch me stream!
that's solid advice. i'd personally rank the butcher above the clique, but either could go. and i'd rank the clique higher than the other two.
Draft my cube!
Watch me stream!
Dude, very nice update. I would've made all those exact changes myself.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
- Faceless Butcher
- Thornweald Archer
- Resurrection
- Serra Avenger
- Sprout Swarm
- Wipe Away
- Pestermite
- Countryside Crusher
- Mesmeric Fiend
- Wall of Frost
- Winter's Grasp
- Stigma Lasher
+ Puppeteer Clique
+ Hearth Kami
+ Wild Nacatl
+ Great Sable Stag
+ Kor Sanctifiers
+ Disenchant
+ Naturalize
+ Ponder
+ Preordain
+ Mogg Fanatic
+ Black Knight
+ Tinker
+ Umezawa's Jitte
+ Sol Ring
Faceless Butcher's best use was as a "counter" to Bribery, which is pretty poor, actually. Mesmeric Fiend was pretty underwhelming, too. I'm going to try Mogg Fanatic again and see how it performs. I added more artifact removal and put back Sol Ring and Umezawa's Jitte. I'll see how that goes after a few weeks of playing. I think Sprout Swarm was a "win-more" card in the cube, so really can't be justified. By the time you could afford to get 1 or 2 Saprolings a turn, you were probably doing pretty well on the battlefield. I've had Tinker ever since I got the FTV: Exiled set and haven't gotten a chance to use it. The last time I used Tinker was to a top 16 at a PTQ, using Tinker to get Platinum Angel and equipping her with Lightning Greaves against one opponent who managed to get a turn 4 Battle of Wits against me. I'm hoping to relive some of that glory, only now using Tinker to get Sundering Titan against greedy 4C Control decks and other ridiculous plays.
I agree. I remember many games with "play Slaughter Pact, play Puppeteer Clique, win?" Puppeteer Clique seems to have better synergy with removal than Faceless Butcher and doesn't sit back on the sidelines, afraid to die like Faceless Butcher.
After adding Stormbind back to the cube, I played five straight games against one of my friends and in the fifth game I drafted and played with Stormbind.
Okay, I'm sold. It's good and shouldn't be cut. I attacked him down to 11, played Stormbind, played an end of turn Fact or Fiction to fill my hand with three more cards (taking 3 lands over two creatures!) and with 8 lands and 5 cards, my opponent took one more turn to hope to draw into an answer and then scooped.
Agreed on both accounts.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Bone Shredder, Keldon Vandals, Disenchant, Fauna Shaman, and Enclave Cryptologist added to the cube. Each color now at 56.
More artifacts: Chrome Mox, Phyrexian Processor, Sword of Vengeance, Pilgrim's Eye, Mana Vault.
Multicolor section increased from 50 to 60. New cards:
Plumeveil, Wrecking Ball, Duergar Hedge-Mage, Behemoth Sledge, Desolation Angel, Grave-Shell Scarab, Snakeform, Vithian Renegades, Recoil, Spellbound Dragon.
Lands increased by 5 to add the WWK cycle of manlands (Stirring Wildwood, Lavaclaw Reaches, Raging Ravine, Celestial Colonnade, and Creeping Tar Pit).
And my FAVORITE updates:
Cascade Bluffs => Volcanic Island
Rugged Prairie=> Plateau
Twilight Mire=> Bayou
That makes 8/10 original duals. Only two more to go! (Scrubland, Tropical Island)
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
So:
- Momentary Blink
- Goblin Legionairre
- Moroii
- Grave-Shell Scarab
- Boggart Ram-Gang
- Niv Mizzet, the Firemind
- Angel of Despair
- Wrecking Ball
- Knight of the Reliquary
- Coiling Oracle
- Dread Return
- Sylvan Ranger
- Rakdos Pit Dragon
- Leonin Skyhunter
- Fetid Heath
+ Scrubland
I'm just trying to figure out what artifacts to add at this point.
I know for sure I'd like to get Sword of Light and Shadow and Scroll Rack, but I'm going to go through other people's cube lists for ideas for more artifacts I'm missing.
Ankh of Mishra (this thing is way better than some give it credit for)
Crystal Ball
Smokestack
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!