1. My cube is somewhat budgeted. Most of the expensive cards I busted, traded for, or got in a box set (FTV, Duel Decks, etc.) I don't like spending more than a few dollars for a card.
2. Here's the breakdown: 450 Cards total 61 Of each color 45 Multicolored 40 Artifacts 55 Lands
3. My brother, Schizophrenic Toast, demands recognition for his donation of cards to the cube. Here it is.
4. I have a much different pimpage system than most:
New-bordered non foil (M10 wording preferred)> New-bordered foil> old bordered> white bordered>>>>altered/foreign/full art (I don't put them in my cube at all)
or dinosaur pirates!!! big hulking dinos with eye patches and peglegs and troll the ocean on their ships made of smaller dinosaur bones in search or treasures. I would sooo go for that. or better yet, slave dinosaurs that serve the pirates like some sick dinotopia world where people own the dinos.
I think Morph creatures and Land Destruction are absolutely pivotal. I wouldn't cube without 'em.
Well right now I found the cube to be too small to fit morphs in, but when I expand I will add them. I already have all the blue ones pulled out and waiting :D.
Why is land destruction pivotal? I have no good utility lands, and my manafixing lands aren't that great so it will be difficult to build 5CC, which is the main reason to run LD, right?
I have to agree with ThatOneNinja. Land Destruction that targets basic lands tends to be more a griefer than fun. Land Destruction imo should be used for taking down problematic utility lands, (maze of ith, kjeldoran outpost, urza's Factory), Lands that produce way too much mana (gaea's cradle, tolarian academy) or solid mana fixing (Revised duals, city of brass). I don't think any of the non basics he has listed warrent land destruction.
And In conclusion, get a willbender, vesuvan shapeshifter, (save up for an exalted angel), and have the best morphs in your cube.
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Calvin and Hobbes Cube Tutor
The game is balanced with land destruction cards in it. The cube is too.
Losing to control all the time because your red deck can't use Pillage is a lot more griefing than occasionally blowing up an Island with it to regulate tempo.
The game is balanced with land destruction cards in it. The cube is too.
Losing to control all the time because your red deck can't use Pillage is a lot more griefing than occasionally blowing up an Island with it to regulate tempo.
I agree here. I can understand if you don't want to run cards like Stone Rain or Winter's Grasp, but I think a card like Pillage is definitely needed in a red section. I'll also say that I agree with Pringlesman as well that cube land destruction should be there for problematic lands and not for basics and it certainly shouldn't be a viable archetype. No one wants to play against LD... ever. It's fun to play, but it's so unfun to play against. Cards like Pillage and Aftershock don't do much for an LD archetype, but they do help when building a sort of Ponza RX aggro control deck.
And also I don't understand why you wouldn't include morphs. "The cube isn't big enough" doesn't seem like a very good reason for their exclusion to me. If anything, that's all the more reason to add them... it makes the cube bigger! If nothing else you can at least add the cheaper, more affordable ones.
I guess I'll add a few LD cards when I expand the cube (I might start off with a 45 card expansion after M10). I'll add in pillage, Acidic Slime, and Wrecking Ball, and maybe Molten Rain.
As for morphs, I really wanted to put the blue ones in, but I would have to take out a least five creatures in blue (and I only have twenty) and I like the card I have in now better. Right now I have Willbender, Disruptive Pitmage, Fledgling Mawcor, Fathom Seer, Voidmage Apprenticeand Wall of Deceit to put in, which would give blue a total of seven morphs with Quicksilver Dragon. Is that enough morphs to make them not obvious? And if not what do you recommend adding?
I was also having trouble finding good, cheap morphs for other colors. All I could think of was Skinthinner in black. What do you guys recommend?
don't forget that I have a vesuvan shapeshifter, brine elemental, and zoetic carvern that we can borrow from one of my decks to get more morphs in if we have to. What about that red morph that destroys lands when its flipped?
or dinosaur pirates!!! big hulking dinos with eye patches and peglegs and troll the ocean on their ships made of smaller dinosaur bones in search or treasures. I would sooo go for that. or better yet, slave dinosaurs that serve the pirates like some sick dinotopia world where people own the dinos.
I think that the red morph that destroys lands is too much mana, but there's Gathan Raiders if you want to run it. I don't think that lack of space should make you not want to run morphs, if they're the best creatures in their color (Vesuvan Shapeshifter, Willbender, Exalted Angel [which wouldn't work for budgetary reasons]) then I'd include them, mine has the same number of cards in each color (50) and I've yet to have a problem including morphs. (Also agreed on LD's inclusion, it helps keep things like control/5 color in check, Dwarven Blastminer's a good morph for LD as well.) There's also Nantuko Vigilante in green for a disenchant effect.
I'd consider Demolish over Lay Waste. Lay Waste is pretty bad (too narrow), and they're both "budget" cards.
Instead of Dwarven Driller, you could use Dwarven Blastminer. Not only is it cheap, but it's good, AND it's both a Morph card and an LD card... addressing both of your needs.
Even though Bane of the Living is rare, it's really cheap, and it's one of the best morph creatures out there.
Good additions for the artifacts, but that's a lot of tri-color cards for a cube this size that's lacking on mana-fixing.
I'll second what wtwlf123 said and add that I'd rather have Creeping Mold than Mwonvuli Acid-Moss. I doubt the mana ramp from Acid-Moss will ever be as relevant as being able to target artifacts and enchantments as well as lands.
I'll test to see 10 tricolors is too many, but I think it will be fine. The only ones that I anticipate having problems with are the thoctar, specter, and thrinax.
Should I add in the Panorama's as more fixing? I also hope that I can pick up the allied painlands on the cheap soon. I don't see why their prices shouldn't plummet soon.
Land destruction is important in a cube with really strong utility lands. As the current list has only mana fixing lands, and you don't want to spend lots of dollars to get utility lands, land destruction is just nice to have.
Morphs can be a surprise factor at times, but most of the time when my opponent plays a face down creature I can guess what it is. So you do not actually need many morphs, you just need good ones. I'd probably cut Fledgling Mawcor and Voidmage Apprentice. Your brother's Vesuvan Shapeshifter would be a great addition, however.
Then, multicolor cards: I would not run too many. Now this is up to personal preference of course, but I do have a 405 cards cube and the 55 multicolor cards I run are enough for me. Because if you have fewer multicolor cards, you can have more monocolor cards, which is good, because they fit in more decks. As I was talking about land destruction above, I would probably reconsider the addition of Wrecking Ball. If I had to cut two cards in your B/R section, it would be Goblin Deathraiders and Wrecking Ball.
Now this was all just follow ups on answers in this thread. I might actually have a look at your list and give some comments there as well, when I find the time.
edit: Panoramas for more fixing would work, of course. So would Painlands, not just the allied ones, if the price drops enough when they leave standard. I would not play the borderposts, what about the Mirage fetchlands (Rocky Tar Pit)? As for five color fixing, there is Grand Coliseum.
I totally forgot about the Mirage Fetchlands. I will have to pick them up.
Aftershock does look better than demolish, I'll have to pick one up.
The Vesuvan Shapeshifter is decked right now, but I guess he can pluck it out for cube time.
I love multicolored stuff :). I guess I won't add anymore, though, when I expand the cube.
For now I think I won't make any sweeping changes until I actually play the damn thing. I should be able to get a draft going sometime before/after/during the M10 prerelease.
...most of the time when my opponent plays a face down creature I can guess what it is. So you do not actually need many morphs, you just need good ones.
???
If you only include a few really good ones, then obviously you can predict what they are...
For now I think I won't make any sweeping changes until I actually play the damn thing. I should be able to get a draft going sometime before/after/during the M10 prerelease.
Yes. Play the thing. Have fun.
Then change the list, because to work on the cube is a lot of fun, too
I was just having a quick look and I think you need more artifacts. So in addition to the ones mentioned by norbert88, consider:
If you only include a few really good ones, then obviously you can predict what they are...
You are right, does not really make sense my argument. The point that I wanted to make was that I would not include bad morphs just to add a surprise factor.
you might as well jack a warhammer from my zoo deck since the cube is already borrowing one bloodbraid and savanah lions from it. That deck is already like voltron anyways, it assembles from like five other decks as it is.
Also, I still think we need a skullclamp. It can't be that broken in cube. We could even use the one that has "To Gaylord" written on it so people won't be as prone to use it....
I have a grim poppet thats been less than impressive in my wither deck that can go in the cube too.
or dinosaur pirates!!! big hulking dinos with eye patches and peglegs and troll the ocean on their ships made of smaller dinosaur bones in search or treasures. I would sooo go for that. or better yet, slave dinosaurs that serve the pirates like some sick dinotopia world where people own the dinos.
1. My cube is somewhat budgeted. Most of the expensive cards I busted, traded for, or got in a box set (FTV, Duel Decks, etc.) I don't like spending more than a few dollars for a card.
2. Here's the breakdown:
450 Cards total
61 Of each color
45 Multicolored
40 Artifacts
55 Lands
3. My brother, Schizophrenic Toast, demands recognition for his donation of cards to the cube. Here it is.
4. I have a much different pimpage system than most:
New-bordered non foil (M10 wording preferred)> New-bordered foil> old bordered> white bordered>>>>altered/foreign/full art (I don't put them in my cube at all)
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Black Instant
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1x Goblin Guide
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Red Instant
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1x Breeding Pool
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U/R
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1x Dack Fayden
1x Ral Zarek
1x Izzet Charm
1x Electrolyze
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Shivan Reef
1x Steam Vents
1x Temple of Epiphany
R/W
1x Figure of Destiny
1x Boros Reckoner
1x Ajani Vengeant
1x Boros Charm
1x Lightning Helix
1x Arid Mesa
1x Battlefield Forge
1x Rugged Prairie
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Karn Liberated
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1 Ravages of War
//Blue
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
//Black
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Sidsi, Undead Vizier
1 Burning of Xinye
1 Rolling Earthquake
//Green
1 Natural Order
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
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1 Smokestack
1 Path to Exile
1 Land Tax
1 Oblivion Ring
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1 Force Spike
1 Preordain
1 Wheel of Fortune
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1 Deranged Hermit
1 Sylvan Library
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1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Tangle Wire
1 Scroll Rack
//Land
1 Wasteland
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Well right now I found the cube to be too small to fit morphs in, but when I expand I will add them. I already have all the blue ones pulled out and waiting :D.
Why is land destruction pivotal? I have no good utility lands, and my manafixing lands aren't that great so it will be difficult to build 5CC, which is the main reason to run LD, right?
And In conclusion, get a willbender, vesuvan shapeshifter, (save up for an exalted angel), and have the best morphs in your cube.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
Losing to control all the time because your red deck can't use Pillage is a lot more griefing than occasionally blowing up an Island with it to regulate tempo.
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I agree here. I can understand if you don't want to run cards like Stone Rain or Winter's Grasp, but I think a card like Pillage is definitely needed in a red section. I'll also say that I agree with Pringlesman as well that cube land destruction should be there for problematic lands and not for basics and it certainly shouldn't be a viable archetype. No one wants to play against LD... ever. It's fun to play, but it's so unfun to play against. Cards like Pillage and Aftershock don't do much for an LD archetype, but they do help when building a sort of Ponza RX aggro control deck.
And also I don't understand why you wouldn't include morphs. "The cube isn't big enough" doesn't seem like a very good reason for their exclusion to me. If anything, that's all the more reason to add them... it makes the cube bigger! If nothing else you can at least add the cheaper, more affordable ones.
calibretto
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As for morphs, I really wanted to put the blue ones in, but I would have to take out a least five creatures in blue (and I only have twenty) and I like the card I have in now better. Right now I have Willbender, Disruptive Pitmage, Fledgling Mawcor, Fathom Seer, Voidmage Apprenticeand Wall of Deceit to put in, which would give blue a total of seven morphs with Quicksilver Dragon. Is that enough morphs to make them not obvious? And if not what do you recommend adding?
I was also having trouble finding good, cheap morphs for other colors. All I could think of was Skinthinner in black. What do you guys recommend?
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Since I have the room now, I decided to give the Shards some lovin' and added in two cards from each shard.
Heres the breakdown for the additions:
+5 of each color (25 cards)
+1 of each allied pair (5 cards)
+2 of each Shard (10 cards)
+5 artifacts (5 cards)________
45 cards total
Addtions:
White:
I needed to balance out the number of spells to creatures and add some another control creature (and I guess Saltblast counts as LD)- Saltblast, Disenchant,Cage of Hands, Akroma's Blessing, Knight-Captain of Eos
Blue:
All morphs- Willbender, Fledgling Mawcor, Fathom Seer, Voidmage Apprentice, Brine Elemental
Black:
It needed a big flier, a graveyard filler, a sacrifice outlet, and another kill spell couldn't hurt-Skinthinner, Extractor Demon, Nantuko Husk, Stinkweed Imp, and Nameless Inversion.
Red:
Got the LD and Tin Street Hooligan cause I added more artifacts (plus you could blow up signets or borderposts to simulate LD)- Molten Rain, Pillage, Lay Waste, Dwarven Driller, and Tin Street Hooligan.
Green:
Just got moar of what it does best- Crush of Wurms, Brawn, Druid of the Anima, Mwonvuli Acid Moss, and Moment's Peace.
Multi:
Allied: Need more spells to balance out adding Wrecking Ball- Wrecking Ball, Turn to Mist, Sigil Blessing, Colossal Might, and Countersquall.
Shards: I heart Alara- Empyrial Archangel, Crystalization, Sprouting Thrinax, Jund Charm, Sedraxis Specter, Slave of Bolas, Enigma Sphinx , Esper Charm,Woolly Thoctar,and Realm Razor.
Artifacts:
I don't have many so I added more, not much to see here- Juggernaut, Scuttlemutt, Vulshok Battlegear, Mind Stone, and Chimeric Idol.
Instead of Dwarven Driller, you could use Dwarven Blastminer. Not only is it cheap, but it's good, AND it's both a Morph card and an LD card... addressing both of your needs.
Even though Bane of the Living is rare, it's really cheap, and it's one of the best morph creatures out there.
Good additions for the artifacts, but that's a lot of tri-color cards for a cube this size that's lacking on mana-fixing.
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calibretto
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I'll change Dwarven Driller to Dwarven Blastmaster as soon as I get one and will do the same with the Acid Moss and Creeping Mold.
I will definitely pick up a Bane of the Living.
My brother demands more artifacts(plus we need a couple more fixers for the tricolored cards) so I added: Weatherseed Totem, Darksteel Ingot, Moonglove Extract, Armillary Sphere, and Aether Spellbomb.
I'll test to see 10 tricolors is too many, but I think it will be fine. The only ones that I anticipate having problems with are the thoctar, specter, and thrinax.
Should I add in the Panorama's as more fixing? I also hope that I can pick up the allied painlands on the cheap soon. I don't see why their prices shouldn't plummet soon.
Thanks for all the input.
So I would not run dedicated land destruction (Molten Rain), but cards like Pillage and Demolish (though I would not run Demolish, but Aftershock, which is a budget card too). I suggest cutting Molten Rain for, say, a burn spell. Dwarven Blastminer is ok. Come M10 I suggest replacing Creeping Mold with Acidic Slime.
Morphs can be a surprise factor at times, but most of the time when my opponent plays a face down creature I can guess what it is. So you do not actually need many morphs, you just need good ones. I'd probably cut Fledgling Mawcor and Voidmage Apprentice. Your brother's Vesuvan Shapeshifter would be a great addition, however.
Then, multicolor cards: I would not run too many. Now this is up to personal preference of course, but I do have a 405 cards cube and the 55 multicolor cards I run are enough for me. Because if you have fewer multicolor cards, you can have more monocolor cards, which is good, because they fit in more decks. As I was talking about land destruction above, I would probably reconsider the addition of Wrecking Ball. If I had to cut two cards in your B/R section, it would be Goblin Deathraiders and Wrecking Ball.
Now this was all just follow ups on answers in this thread. I might actually have a look at your list and give some comments there as well, when I find the time.
edit: Panoramas for more fixing would work, of course. So would Painlands, not just the allied ones, if the price drops enough when they leave standard. I would not play the borderposts, what about the Mirage fetchlands (Rocky Tar Pit)? As for five color fixing, there is Grand Coliseum.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Aftershock does look better than demolish, I'll have to pick one up.
The Vesuvan Shapeshifter is decked right now, but I guess he can pluck it out for cube time.
I love multicolored stuff :). I guess I won't add anymore, though, when I expand the cube.
For now I think I won't make any sweeping changes until I actually play the damn thing. I should be able to get a draft going sometime before/after/during the M10 prerelease.
Mana Tithe
Lapse of Certainty
Empyrial Armor
Seal of Cleansing
Soltari Visionary
Ronom Unicorn
Ponder
Rewind
Compulsive Research
Trinket Mage
Merfolk Looter
Repeal
Arcane Denial
Merchant Scroll
Corrupt
Drain Life
Diabolic Edict
Withered Wretch
Stromgald Crusader
Order of the Ebon Hand
Mogg Fanatic
Sulfur Elemental
Avalanche Riders
Keldon Champion
Arc Lightning
Magma Jet
Pyrokinesis
Shock
Rolling Thunder
Browbeat
Genju of the Spires
Jungle Lion
Nimble Mongoose
Pouncing Jaguar
Rogue Elephant
Skyshroud Elite
Plant Elemental
River Boa
Wall of Blossoms
Wall of Roots
Simian Grunts
Uktabi Orangutan
Viridian Shaman
Nantuko Vigilante
Might of Old Krosa
Overrun
Rancor
Farseek
Search for Tomorrow
Naturalize
Squirrel Nest
Plumeveil
Psychatog
Boggart Ram-Gang
Armadillo Cloak
Tidehollow Sculler
Fire/Ice
Goblin Legionaire
Trygon Predator
Lotus Petal
Thran Dynamo
Lightning Greaves
Skullclamp
Icy Manipulator
Aether Vial
Voltaic Key
Coastal Tower
Salt Marsh
Elfhame Palace
Shivan Oasis
Urborg Volcano
Bant Panorama
Grixis Panorama
Esper Panorama
Naya Panorama
Jund Panorama
norbert88
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Question: Mirage Fetchlands or Invasion Taplands?
If the land is already going to come into play tapped, you mas as well also use the one that thins your deck and shuffles your library.
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???
If you only include a few really good ones, then obviously you can predict what they are...
My 630 Card Powered Cube
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Yes. Play the thing. Have fun.
Then change the list, because to work on the cube is a lot of fun, too
I was just having a quick look and I think you need more artifacts. So in addition to the ones mentioned by norbert88, consider:
Grafted Wargear
Sigil of Distinction
Loxodon Warhammer (this used to be uncommon back in Mirrodin)
Triskelion
Grim Poppet
Crystal Shard
Ankh of Mishra
Coldsteel Heart
Prismatic Lens
Just what I could think of right now.
edit: You are right, does not really make sense my argument. The point that I wanted to make was that I would not include bad morphs just to add a surprise factor.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
One last question: Should Mirrodin Talismans be the next 5 artifacts I add? or stuff recomended by Konfusius?(see Goals on original post).
Again, thanks everyone for all the help. Hopefully I can give some feedback on your cubes soon!
@Konfusius: I know, I just don't own very many good artifacts (p.s. I got Crystal Shard in already).
Also, I still think we need a skullclamp. It can't be that broken in cube. We could even use the one that has "To Gaylord" written on it so people won't be as prone to use it....
I have a grim poppet thats been less than impressive in my wither deck that can go in the cube too.
OUT: Vulshok Battlegear, Moonglove Extract, and Pentavus
IN: Loxodon Warhammer, Skullclamp, and Grim Poppet