Some people would rather play Brain Freeze than Bitterblossom, argue that Signets are bad, Karros in the cube make the entire thing too slow, and imply that Mother of Runes sucks. Those people aren't going to be convinced of anything else. No matter if an entire cube community with years of cube experience, thousands and thousands of drafts and pro tour caliber players tells him otherwise. If they don't want help/advice, spend your time helping and debating with those that do.
QFT.
This whole thread is like some kind of weird twilight zone where good cards are bad and bad cards are good.
The correct approach to declining the use of a suggested card is to simply say, "I don't run [card X] because... " and then give a thought out reasonable explanation. If you're not willing to actually make any suggested changes to your cube, then why post your list at all?
Some people would rather play Brain Freeze than Bitterblossom, argue that Signets are bad, Karros in the cube make the entire thing too slow, and imply that Mother of Runes sucks. Those people aren't going to be convinced of anything else. No matter if an entire cube community with years of cube experience, thousands and thousands of drafts and pro tour caliber players tells him otherwise. If they don't want help/advice, spend your time helping and debating with those that do.
We are a cube community here as well, with years of experience in cube, and pro tour players...
Maybe it's just a fact that apparently in Ontario and Manitoba we seem to cube different then the rest of the world, which is something I recognize, but doesn't in any way affect my response. Our cubes run more like highlander t1 games. I accept that "this" community loves cards like aftershock, artifact decks do not exist, etc.
I am open to advice. I have pointed out in reference to specific cards, that they have been tried and cut. Bitterblossom, as an example was in every cube here and is now in none. The words "it's bad" are not coming from my mouth, it just didn't make the cut.
We're basically here to help, and like your OP says, optimize your Cube.
That's why I posted the cube. We are all entitled to our opinions. To go back to bitterblossom, it's not cutting it right now... maybe in six months it may be able to again.
Maybe I should have put this in my first post: While versatility is good, any given card needs an inherit power level that can be useable in multiple archetypes. In spite of what this "forum" thinks, aftershock in not such a card here in Winnipeg.
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You could have also just stated in your first post that you only posted your list so people could look at it and that you didn't intend to listen to any suggestion that might be said...
Honestly, Eidolon always takes from his time to help out new cubers even if they think they reached perfecting (cough yourself cough). When I started, I posted my list and got some wierd suggestions, I ended up trying them and some worked great, others not.
Signets are better because it helps you run more than 2 colored decks. It can also let you get both colours when you don't have them and it's not like a pain land. Mother of Runes is great and if she dies when she hits the table it's because you don't want to see her there any longer than that. Bounce lands are fine and I run them over Pain lands.
Unless you state why you want to keep a certain card over a better one (the reason must be good at least...) don't go sinking other peoples comments with unpleasant words.
I'd like to see other cubes from that area... because all other cubes all over the world perform differently than yours seems to. So, when you come here for advice, and say things like "Bitterblossom doesn't make the cut", and yet we see stuff like Tormod's Crypt and Crystal Vein in your cube, you should be prepared to be criticized for that. Not every deck is aggro, so running some non-aggro support cards is okay. That's like saying we don't run Wrath of God because it's bad in aggro. You want enough support for all archetypes to be competitive. Even in type one, not every game is over by turn 6. There are some matchups that can drag on. Your cube is designed for something very different than a typical cube draft. In it's current state, it would fail miserably here. A head's up draft would look like we were using some of the most awful stuff ever, and the sealed pools would be well below grade. Not all of us have a cube of under 500 cards and a full 8-man draft every time. You MUST have that, or it wouldn't work with the list you have posted. So, it's not that we're being hard on you... it's that you've failed to explain how your choices could be even remotely correct for your cube. If your cube is 100% different than every other one on this forum... maybe it's not us that's wrong? Storm is an impossible thing to enable in the cube if there's greater than 360 cards and/or less than a full 8-man table at every draft. There's only a handful of storm finishers you can possibly draft, and it takes an incredible amount of support to have it win. All the combo support cards don't hold weight of their own, which makes it near impossible to do a sealed draft or a 2, 3 or 4 man draft from your cube. There's too much chaff. I'd have to filter through lots of sub-par jank before coming up with 23 playables. And I'd be missing a lot of really good cards. I like the half of your cube that I can relate to, and I think the other half is pretty janky.
So before you get butt-hurt about the advice people give you, and criticize them when they try to help you, think about your position and our position. You came in here criticizing our good cards, and posted a cube with a lot of non-traditional cards in it. Explain them to us instead of being rude and defensive... it'll be a lot more productive.
I actually get where he's coming from with Bitterblossom (not so much the other choices). I have been extremely underwhelmed with its performance lately; however, I don't see myself taking it out any time soon.
There are definitely times when some cards are awesome and when they're not good enough. Zendikar gave us 5 new fetches and some landfall cards which was more than enough convincing for me to add Life from the Loam which I had been debating a long time. Every time a good X spell, tutor, or mana fixer comes out there's a pretty good chance something I never thought would get the axe might be put on the bench. I had a conversation with my friend about this earlier. Here is what he said:
The thing about the cube now is that you no longer have to ask "is this card good enough?" because a million cards are. Now it has to be "is this card right."
When people first started making cubes (Mir-Kami) you had to struggle a bit to get a solid 360. Now 600 isn't hard. So you now get to pair down the good cards, and work on making your cube what you want it to be about.
I agree with this 100%. I have a binder filled with 100s of cards which are 'on-deck' which may or may not be appropriate at any given time. Personally the most important thing for me is creating the best possible drafting experience with the best cards magic has to offer, so if adding or removing specific cards helps get me there, I'm all for it. If it means cutting my favorite cards or what we as a cubing community feel are "cube staples", I will add or remove cards as my drafters demand if they feel it will improve the cube. In the end, the people who actually play the cube decide what's best. In some circles this means more power, in others it might have a bigger emphasis on balance or wow-factor.
While I agree with Spliff that there are good cards that won't get used because of size restrictions, rarity restrictions, cube themes, hefty prices, and personal preference (Rorix vs Hellkite Charger, etc). However, I also think that there are certain cards that really have no competition and, barring price restrictions or rarity restrictions, there's really no reason for them to not be included. I can't argue with someone who doesn't include Bitterblossom in their common/uncommon cube or someone who simply says, "I can't afford to purchase a Bitterblossom."
It seems that Weapon X is comparing the cube format to Vintage and that's absolutely 100% wrong. Storm can work in Vintage. It cannot work in the cube (and if, by chance, it does work then you've forced the archetype by including sub par cards). Just because Vintage is mostly a singleton format and is the only other format to include cards like the P9 and Library of Alexandria, doesn't mean that it compares to cube. No constructed format does.
Erm, while I disagree with the way that Weapon is expressing his opinion, I don't disagree with all of the things he says.
Bitterblossom for example, I have found to be good, but not gamebreaking or anything. The last time I saw it in play it was instrumental in giving me (the opponent) the win, through the judicious use of Pyroclasm and Volcanic Fallout.
However, I have a hard time understanding the arguements against Gifts Ungiven. Even if you don't understand how to break the card, it's there to be broken and I think that you should leave it in so that it provides an opportunity for your more skillful drafters to 'teach' their opponents with Gifts Piles (I also think this about FoF to a lesser degree).
That said, I have no intention of 'spitting into the wind' any further in this thread.
For the most part, I totally agree with all of eidolon's statements... again.
I wouldn't cut Unsummon and Teferi. Both have been really good for us here. I've also seen Pestermite in a lot of lists, but I don't think I'd ever run it.
Ogre Marauder is still fairly new to our cube, but he's been nothing short of excellent for our aggro builds. He's not at the top of my creature list for black, but he's certainly pulling his weight. He makes my opponent think. I like cards that do that. He could be replaced and I wouldn't run him in a smaller cube, but in our 550 card cube he's been good.
... good in my cube as the common way we cube is 2v2.
... and from what I saw in that thread, we aren't in the same universe when evaluting cards ... so I think we shouldn't criticize his cards choices as much as understanding(and possibly criticing) their alternate format.
Unsummon seems to be overwhelmingly mediocre. There are SO many other 1cc blue spells that are light years better, and blue has so many other ways to deal with opposing creatures I really don't think it is needed.
Without dealing with everything that has been said:
1)I do recognize that we cube different here then most places and take that into account when consider other people's list.
2) I have posted my list. If you want to give me suggestions for cards, you should be the one telling me why to play it over my choices... not the other way around. At least then I can see where you are coming from.
3) or4nge's list is the only other person I can think from here that has posted a list.
4)unlike or4ange i also use my cube for pentagram, mini master, off the top, etc...
5)
... and from what I saw in that thread, we aren't in the same universe when evaluting cards
...and I could swear I said we generally play 2v2 (and not 2HG) early on.
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I was just very surprised that your reply was something like "OK, these 5 cards are good. No way, that I am cutting anything from my list.
By my fault, I too am in the same boat to hear that some cards should be cut when from my point of view they are so obviously good. On that note, I tackled some of the suggestions. I 100% agree with some as well. In fact I think I just missed them when I was typing out my list. Hopefully this can at least start some dialoguing.
standstill is amazing precisely because it reduces interactivity. You play it when you are ahead, not behind, or at least when it's even.
Jilt, a bounce spell that can 2 for 1 for a splashable red. The 2 damage kills a lot of creatures in the cube, the bounce takes care of the bigger guy. It has been a proven strong blue card.
Sleight/opt seem essential for the blue deck that generally does nothing turn one, give added fuel to a storm/erayo deck, allow any deck to dig for needed cards. Again, has proven itself amazing.
Spellstutter sprite, I was against his card for the longest time. Saw it's power in or4anges cube and a lot of other cubes here. I became a believer. It minimally stops 0-1 mana spells and nets you a creature. Notably it stops firestorm.
Transmute artifact is something I put in for the artifact deck. Tinker is obv. a high pick for that deck, or any deck that wants a fast inkwell leviathan. Transmute I added in to try to aid the deck a little by giving it a second albeit worse tinker.
Spiketail drakeliing. A blue flier that counters a spell. Good in the control deck. Baseline, a 2/2 flier for 3 which is good on it's own, has an ability, even better.
Reins of power. A blue fog sometimes, a steal all your creatures and win other times. Again, has proven itself to be powerful.
Gush. Free blue card draw speaks for itself. Good in control and combo. Not even terrible if it has to be hard cast.
Oona's prowler always seems to work to the opponents advantage which is frustrating. A lot of us have been. The reanimator guy doesn't even need to pick it because the aggro guy might which seemed to happen all the time. Failed to prove itself unless it had a jitte equipped.
Both capsules are something I'm trying out, mostly for trinket mage's sake. They seem to be ok so far, but we shall see. Not opposed to cutting them.
Cruel edict, better then gatekeeper which was cut recently.
Dance of the dead is in more so for the fact that it simply puts a body into play. There is a lot of fat with CIP abilities which make it just fine. Agreed the untapping is far from great but even the +1/+1 makes it tolerable.
Imp's mischief was again a card I was leery of, but I've seen it's worth in other cubes and relized mine was no different. Proven good.
Zombie infestation. Proven good. Makes zombies when required, good with squee, aids reanimator.
Grinning demon and Yukora I can admit I had a soft spot for them. They were both cut on the weekend. I'll miss the consistant turn 1 5/5 deck though.
Kikki jikki requires a lot of red. Heat shimmer does not. That's what happened there.
Thunderblust... ball lightning got cut years ago. No one is spending more mana for a ball lightning.
Smash to smitereens I cut. I have a lot of artifact/enchantment removal. While it was great, I also want to cut some of that down in general. If there is too much hate for something, why draft it right?
Arc lightning suffers from being a sorcery.
Vortex was in, got cut.. don't actually remember why. It does eventually hit a team for 4 though.
Flame Javelin I do kind of want to put back in.
Rorix was replaced by hellkite charger for an easier to cast cost plus a relevant ability.
Scute mob. 100% agreed. It only seems good in u/g which is too narrow to hold a spot.
Walls in general, becuase they are only as good as your partners (as I noted we generally play 2v2) they are not effective at stopping damage and are thus only as good as their respective ability.
Teeg has proven himself. Yes he can stop your partners spell just as much as he can stop your opponents. But in that way he is like standstill. Your are playing him for advantage. The cmc of my cube is low so teeg stops the spells he needs to. He is generally an aggro players high pick as he stops wrath effects. Communication is key at times too.
Control can take a lot of forms. Common is usually the standard control cards and a few creatures to win with. Aggro control exists. I've played some zero creature control decks, aside from some man lands, and just steal someone elses good creatures. It can also take the pray to god approach and just go for supporting your partner. They have all worked.
Loxodon warhammer is in the wings for me and has been for some time. It's the 3 + 3 that I always question about it.
Cursed scroll I like, others want it cut. It's still in so far.
Crystal shard.... honestly, just can't seem to find any of mine, I do want it in thought.
Icy Manipulator. I know or4ange has it in his, I've yet to be convinced to play it. But again, as cuts/additions happen, who knows.
Thought I had O stone on my list? I agree, it should be in.
Processor I like, but I don't think it's quite cube worthy. It seems like it has to be played and used in the same turn to be good and I'm not sure how often that will happen. With that in mind it seems like it is more likely to be tap out lose some life, and then it's dealt with.
Coalition relic was in my first cube, it became prism for the possible explosive factor that prism can allow. Still a card I am open to however.
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Smash to smitereens I cut. I have a lot of artifact/enchantment removal. While it was great, I also want to cut some of that down in general. If there is too much hate for something, why draft it right?
Why don't you try putting it back in and only take it out when you feel that nobody is playing artifacts for fear of having them killed? Because from where I sit that seems like very spurious reasoning. Artifacts are the strongest cards in cube, which is why there are many many playable cube cards that 187 an artifact that always get maindecked.
Loxodon warhammer is in the wings for me and has been for some time. It's the 3 + 3 that I always question about it.
These two cards are just staples (although I can see how trample and lifelink aren't compelling if evasion isn't as important and you don't have a shared life total in your offbeat format).
Well you got basically everything right.. I think we posted how we played in or4nges cube, I should probably add that to the beginning of mine as well.
I think the only thing you missed is that we start with 25 life to a team.
Just to touch on abyss: In one of the stores cubes they run abyss (and I used to) and is draftable as an archetype as they have more creatures that can dodge it. It fell out of favour with me. at least in my cube, as did moat. If something starts to happen with my cube that their inclusion becomes necessary, they can probably make it back in. A fine example would be to simply point out that the store cube ended up running Night of Soul's Betrayal as an answer to the aggro deck in it.
I was actually running dance of the dead and corpse dance before... since some cuts had been made to black they can probably find a way back in.
u/r red has the same number of cards as any other. I placed the 5W's in that spot. I note how you count kicker cost towards colours... I do not. I think this is a similar situation. You may also note the lack of fireballs. Imp's mishcief works as an off colour misdirection with usually no more then 2 life lost as payment. It has proven itself. I was a doubter until I faced it repeatedly.
I feel the same about kikki jikki. Was a neat package when flash/protean hulk was in a few cubes... but otherwise underwhelming.
As far as the charger goes, I drafted an oath deck yesterday. With an inkwell leviathan and multani in play I oathed up the charger, and because of the early ramp I had connected for a lot killing 2 people to win... but that was pentagram draft. Even without the ability he still seems on par with rorix.
Phyrexian Processor.... I would guess you see my reasoning behind that when we start with 25 life.... and then partner would also need a blocker.
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Two player team vs one combined 25 point life total changes absolutely everything. The basic laws of Magic as a game don't even apply to those house rules, and I would have no idea how to evaluate cards on that basis. Nothing that can be learned from other cubes will hold true for you, and vise versa.
I'm certain that several cards suggested are of high quality in the framework of magic as we know it (and we meaning most the world). If I were you, and describing cards for use, I would use the terms fast/quick and focused (and in terms of special environment). It makes more sense and more correctly states what "quality" is for your house rules. Bitterblossom is high Quality, but it is a little slow to gain it's overwhelming benefit ... therefore not for you. Aftershock is high quality because it is flexible. With twice the potential targets, more efficient, focused answers do seem preferable in your environment. We can see it in these terms ... you just need to communicate it so.
Does this maybe help you understand why I think aftershock is bad?
Like I said, cards need a high quality.
No, cards need to be evaluated on a completely different level. Aftershock IS a high quality card, in normal Magic. In crazy kitchen table magic with rules that start you with roughly half your life, lots of things are different. Isamaru is the worst card in the world if you play with house rules that start players at 80 life. Baneslayer Angel is the worst card ever in a format where each time you gain 1 life, all your opponent's gain 3 life. Tarmogoyf sucks when you play with a house rule that says "creatures with converted mana cost <3 are countered while being cast". We can't evaluate cards for your cube with your rules the same way the rest of Magic is evaluated.
Mirri worked out well for some players here, but it is not a must have.
Speaking of black haste creatures: I suppose Blood Ghast works like Magister Sphinx in 2v2? Otherwise it would be a hasty beater most of the time.
I think you're reading it wrong. IF it does work like the sphinx ability then he will be a hasty beater whenever a 'head' has 10 life, and the giant as a whole has 20 life.
Bloodghast would have haste when the team's life total is 10. Maybe to put it a different way... The 2 heads are part of the giant, so if either head is targeted the body will feel it.
I may as well name him... Rich is using it in his stores cube as far as I know still. Not sure on his thoughts about it. Like myself, I know he tries a lot of cards that seem like they can be good and goes from there. An example is that he has Urza's bauble in his cube.
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I really like Mirri the Cursed. I agree that she's not a staple at all, but flying haste and first strike is pretty ridiculous, even if she's just a 3/2.
Since I have cut some black cards, there's space for some replacements... aside from the more reanimation I want to add, mirri does seem interesting. The first strike does mean it can even go in a control deck as it can kill the bulk of the aggro creatures on its own (not counting any tricks). I do like that little bit of evasion, and I'm wondering how relevant the vampire ability will be. At this rate I think it will warrant some trial time.
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QFT.
This whole thread is like some kind of weird twilight zone where good cards are bad and bad cards are good.
The correct approach to declining the use of a suggested card is to simply say, "I don't run [card X] because... " and then give a thought out reasonable explanation. If you're not willing to actually make any suggested changes to your cube, then why post your list at all?
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We are a cube community here as well, with years of experience in cube, and pro tour players...
Maybe it's just a fact that apparently in Ontario and Manitoba we seem to cube different then the rest of the world, which is something I recognize, but doesn't in any way affect my response. Our cubes run more like highlander t1 games. I accept that "this" community loves cards like aftershock, artifact decks do not exist, etc.
I am open to advice. I have pointed out in reference to specific cards, that they have been tried and cut. Bitterblossom, as an example was in every cube here and is now in none. The words "it's bad" are not coming from my mouth, it just didn't make the cut.
That's why I posted the cube. We are all entitled to our opinions. To go back to bitterblossom, it's not cutting it right now... maybe in six months it may be able to again.
Maybe I should have put this in my first post: While versatility is good, any given card needs an inherit power level that can be useable in multiple archetypes. In spite of what this "forum" thinks, aftershock in not such a card here in Winnipeg.
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Honestly, Eidolon always takes from his time to help out new cubers even if they think they reached perfecting (cough yourself cough). When I started, I posted my list and got some wierd suggestions, I ended up trying them and some worked great, others not.
Signets are better because it helps you run more than 2 colored decks. It can also let you get both colours when you don't have them and it's not like a pain land. Mother of Runes is great and if she dies when she hits the table it's because you don't want to see her there any longer than that. Bounce lands are fine and I run them over Pain lands.
Unless you state why you want to keep a certain card over a better one (the reason must be good at least...) don't go sinking other peoples comments with unpleasant words.
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So before you get butt-hurt about the advice people give you, and criticize them when they try to help you, think about your position and our position. You came in here criticizing our good cards, and posted a cube with a lot of non-traditional cards in it. Explain them to us instead of being rude and defensive... it'll be a lot more productive.
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There are definitely times when some cards are awesome and when they're not good enough. Zendikar gave us 5 new fetches and some landfall cards which was more than enough convincing for me to add Life from the Loam which I had been debating a long time. Every time a good X spell, tutor, or mana fixer comes out there's a pretty good chance something I never thought would get the axe might be put on the bench. I had a conversation with my friend about this earlier. Here is what he said:
I agree with this 100%. I have a binder filled with 100s of cards which are 'on-deck' which may or may not be appropriate at any given time. Personally the most important thing for me is creating the best possible drafting experience with the best cards magic has to offer, so if adding or removing specific cards helps get me there, I'm all for it. If it means cutting my favorite cards or what we as a cubing community feel are "cube staples", I will add or remove cards as my drafters demand if they feel it will improve the cube. In the end, the people who actually play the cube decide what's best. In some circles this means more power, in others it might have a bigger emphasis on balance or wow-factor.
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It seems that Weapon X is comparing the cube format to Vintage and that's absolutely 100% wrong. Storm can work in Vintage. It cannot work in the cube (and if, by chance, it does work then you've forced the archetype by including sub par cards). Just because Vintage is mostly a singleton format and is the only other format to include cards like the P9 and Library of Alexandria, doesn't mean that it compares to cube. No constructed format does.
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Bitterblossom for example, I have found to be good, but not gamebreaking or anything. The last time I saw it in play it was instrumental in giving me (the opponent) the win, through the judicious use of Pyroclasm and Volcanic Fallout.
However, I have a hard time understanding the arguements against Gifts Ungiven. Even if you don't understand how to break the card, it's there to be broken and I think that you should leave it in so that it provides an opportunity for your more skillful drafters to 'teach' their opponents with Gifts Piles (I also think this about FoF to a lesser degree).
That said, I have no intention of 'spitting into the wind' any further in this thread.
I wouldn't cut Unsummon and Teferi. Both have been really good for us here. I've also seen Pestermite in a lot of lists, but I don't think I'd ever run it.
Ogre Marauder is still fairly new to our cube, but he's been nothing short of excellent for our aggro builds. He's not at the top of my creature list for black, but he's certainly pulling his weight. He makes my opponent think. I like cards that do that. He could be replaced and I wouldn't run him in a smaller cube, but in our 550 card cube he's been good.
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I am pretty sure, that weaponX plays the same 2v2 format touched on in or4nge's cube thread ...
... and from what I saw in that thread, we aren't in the same universe when evaluting cards ... so I think we shouldn't criticize his cards choices as much as understanding(and possibly criticing) their alternate format.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=385729
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1)I do recognize that we cube different here then most places and take that into account when consider other people's list.
2) I have posted my list. If you want to give me suggestions for cards, you should be the one telling me why to play it over my choices... not the other way around. At least then I can see where you are coming from.
3) or4nge's list is the only other person I can think from here that has posted a list.
4)unlike or4ange i also use my cube for pentagram, mini master, off the top, etc...
5) ...and I could swear I said we generally play 2v2 (and not 2HG) early on.
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By my fault, I too am in the same boat to hear that some cards should be cut when from my point of view they are so obviously good. On that note, I tackled some of the suggestions. I 100% agree with some as well. In fact I think I just missed them when I was typing out my list. Hopefully this can at least start some dialoguing.
Jilt, a bounce spell that can 2 for 1 for a splashable red. The 2 damage kills a lot of creatures in the cube, the bounce takes care of the bigger guy. It has been a proven strong blue card.
Sleight/opt seem essential for the blue deck that generally does nothing turn one, give added fuel to a storm/erayo deck, allow any deck to dig for needed cards. Again, has proven itself amazing.
Spellstutter sprite, I was against his card for the longest time. Saw it's power in or4anges cube and a lot of other cubes here. I became a believer. It minimally stops 0-1 mana spells and nets you a creature. Notably it stops firestorm.
Transmute artifact is something I put in for the artifact deck. Tinker is obv. a high pick for that deck, or any deck that wants a fast inkwell leviathan. Transmute I added in to try to aid the deck a little by giving it a second albeit worse tinker.
Spiketail drakeliing. A blue flier that counters a spell. Good in the control deck. Baseline, a 2/2 flier for 3 which is good on it's own, has an ability, even better.
Reins of power. A blue fog sometimes, a steal all your creatures and win other times. Again, has proven itself to be powerful.
Gush. Free blue card draw speaks for itself. Good in control and combo. Not even terrible if it has to be hard cast.
Both capsules are something I'm trying out, mostly for trinket mage's sake. They seem to be ok so far, but we shall see. Not opposed to cutting them.
Cruel edict, better then gatekeeper which was cut recently.
Dance of the dead is in more so for the fact that it simply puts a body into play. There is a lot of fat with CIP abilities which make it just fine. Agreed the untapping is far from great but even the +1/+1 makes it tolerable.
Imp's mischief was again a card I was leery of, but I've seen it's worth in other cubes and relized mine was no different. Proven good.
Zombie infestation. Proven good. Makes zombies when required, good with squee, aids reanimator.
Grinning demon and Yukora I can admit I had a soft spot for them. They were both cut on the weekend. I'll miss the consistant turn 1 5/5 deck though.
Thunderblust... ball lightning got cut years ago. No one is spending more mana for a ball lightning.
Smash to smitereens I cut. I have a lot of artifact/enchantment removal. While it was great, I also want to cut some of that down in general. If there is too much hate for something, why draft it right?
Arc lightning suffers from being a sorcery.
Vortex was in, got cut.. don't actually remember why. It does eventually hit a team for 4 though.
Flame Javelin I do kind of want to put back in.
Rorix was replaced by hellkite charger for an easier to cast cost plus a relevant ability.
Walls in general, becuase they are only as good as your partners (as I noted we generally play 2v2) they are not effective at stopping damage and are thus only as good as their respective ability.
Control can take a lot of forms. Common is usually the standard control cards and a few creatures to win with. Aggro control exists. I've played some zero creature control decks, aside from some man lands, and just steal someone elses good creatures. It can also take the pray to god approach and just go for supporting your partner. They have all worked.
Cursed scroll I like, others want it cut. It's still in so far.
Crystal shard.... honestly, just can't seem to find any of mine, I do want it in thought.
Icy Manipulator. I know or4ange has it in his, I've yet to be convinced to play it. But again, as cuts/additions happen, who knows.
Thought I had O stone on my list? I agree, it should be in.
Processor I like, but I don't think it's quite cube worthy. It seems like it has to be played and used in the same turn to be good and I'm not sure how often that will happen. With that in mind it seems like it is more likely to be tap out lose some life, and then it's dealt with.
Coalition relic was in my first cube, it became prism for the possible explosive factor that prism can allow. Still a card I am open to however.
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Why don't you try putting it back in and only take it out when you feel that nobody is playing artifacts for fear of having them killed? Because from where I sit that seems like very spurious reasoning. Artifacts are the strongest cards in cube, which is why there are many many playable cube cards that 187 an artifact that always get maindecked.
These two cards are just staples (although I can see how trample and lifelink aren't compelling if evasion isn't as important and you don't have a shared life total in your offbeat format).
And as has been pointed out, Relic can provide the same effect as prism every second turn (I assume you don't win the turn after casting prism).
I think the only thing you missed is that we start with 25 life to a team.
Just to touch on abyss: In one of the stores cubes they run abyss (and I used to) and is draftable as an archetype as they have more creatures that can dodge it. It fell out of favour with me. at least in my cube, as did moat. If something starts to happen with my cube that their inclusion becomes necessary, they can probably make it back in. A fine example would be to simply point out that the store cube ended up running Night of Soul's Betrayal as an answer to the aggro deck in it.
I was actually running dance of the dead and corpse dance before... since some cuts had been made to black they can probably find a way back in.
u/r red has the same number of cards as any other. I placed the 5W's in that spot. I note how you count kicker cost towards colours... I do not. I think this is a similar situation. You may also note the lack of fireballs. Imp's mishcief works as an off colour misdirection with usually no more then 2 life lost as payment. It has proven itself. I was a doubter until I faced it repeatedly.
I feel the same about kikki jikki. Was a neat package when flash/protean hulk was in a few cubes... but otherwise underwhelming.
As far as the charger goes, I drafted an oath deck yesterday. With an inkwell leviathan and multani in play I oathed up the charger, and because of the early ramp I had connected for a lot killing 2 people to win... but that was pentagram draft. Even without the ability he still seems on par with rorix.
Phyrexian Processor.... I would guess you see my reasoning behind that when we start with 25 life.... and then partner would also need a blocker.
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Like I said, cards need a high quality.
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=385729
No, cards need to be evaluated on a completely different level. Aftershock IS a high quality card, in normal Magic. In crazy kitchen table magic with rules that start you with roughly half your life, lots of things are different. Isamaru is the worst card in the world if you play with house rules that start players at 80 life. Baneslayer Angel is the worst card ever in a format where each time you gain 1 life, all your opponent's gain 3 life. Tarmogoyf sucks when you play with a house rule that says "creatures with converted mana cost <3 are countered while being cast". We can't evaluate cards for your cube with your rules the same way the rest of Magic is evaluated.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
In cube draft, it's a good card in cubes that aren't based in Manitoba or Ontario.... moving on.
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Cheers,
rant
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I think you're reading it wrong. IF it does work like the sphinx ability then he will be a hasty beater whenever a 'head' has 10 life, and the giant as a whole has 20 life.
I may as well name him... Rich is using it in his stores cube as far as I know still. Not sure on his thoughts about it. Like myself, I know he tries a lot of cards that seem like they can be good and goes from there. An example is that he has Urza's bauble in his cube.
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