Sure, you want to have the Recluse? There is already a huge number of Spiders in your cube and I would prefer my 6 drop having more than 1 toughness. Patron of the Wild (also costs 6 mana) would be one of the cards I could see cutting in favor of Mold Shambler.
I like Patron since he muddles up the "I wonder what morph you have there?" question. Morph is strongest when your opponent has no clue what it could be and guesses incorrectly. I like morph variety and a two color deck should be able to use these best.
Have you updated your list either on blog or 1st post?
also, I cut Thornweald Archer for Recluse
The first post is updated - I stopped updating my blog for now. I'd like to find a better way to share the cube than to just point to this thread, which is what I was doing consistently. The discussions here have been so relevant that I can't avoid simply making this the home base (which I'm glad to have), I just need a clever way to integrate more content.
I would not cut Thornweald Archer for Deadly Recluse - in fact, I was generally convinced that the opposite would be better. I run both because they're awesome and I like green to have access to any removal and removal-like effects it can get.
MULTICOLOR: Yavimaya Barbarian ----> Tin Street Hooligan - Hooligan was almost always cast as RG. This changes makes sense (and freed up room in Red).
These are the actual changes implemented and reflected in the first post. The Online Analysis does not have ZEN loaded yet so those links will not reflect changes until later. The last minute change was getting Ruinous Minotaur in here - he's a solid beater unanswered and holds the fort well for a red dude.
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
Fault Riders looks much better than minotaur. He's actually a force to be reckoned with in combat.
Expedition map seems bad, there is no land in my commons cube worth paying 3 mana for.
Put the green expedition out of your mind, I can't for the life of me think of a reason to have an explosive vegetation in commons cube once I've already got 5 lands at minimum out. The best expedition is probably the black one, but not sure I'm putting that one in. I put the red one in just because it's cool and not that bad. Also red non-burn spells tend to be terrible at common so it's nice to have one that is actually decent.
Kor Hookmaster is awesome in an aggressive white deck, a great tempo play.
Fault Riders is fairly similar to Ruinous Minotaur at a glance, but there are a few very important differences: Riders needs you to sac lands to do it's job. A Grey Ogre is fine and all but relatively unexciting for Limited (exception: morph). Even if I'm holding back because it's unprofitable to attack (say, pro-red dude or 2/1 first strike sits there) if I want to get my value out of blocking I still lose a land. The Minotaur requires a land only if I hit my opponent. I can block all day for free and, if the opponent drops removal on him, I don't lose anything other than my dude. I like Mintoaur because it's a great cost/reward situation and forces an uncomfortable choice on your oppoent: waste removal on an 5/2 or take five and Stone Rain the land my opponent needs least. Throw into consideration the burn suite available to red and this guy becomes a real problem for the opponent. I lived the dream in multiple games at the prerelease: don't ignore the 'Taur!
As for Expedition Map, both Desert and Arena are great cards to fetch up, and tell the player splashing Fireball that a Mountain isn't worth the 3 it woudl cost to go get? Map will be great - I had no color issues and only one land to fetch in my prerelease deck (Teetering Peaks, FYI) and it was worth it every single time. It also saved my bacon when I did need fixing (i.e. didn't draw my Arid Mesa - if you can't tell I went solid Red-White). I love the Map and you should too - again, this thing is colorless Sylan Scrying!
I am skipping on Khalni Heart Expedition for now, though it's tough to swallow losing out on two lands for 1G despite the quest-based nature.
Kor Hookmaster is a great tempo card and hits as a Grey Ogre - an acceptable size if unimpressive. My issue is that it's strictly that: tempo. I have five tappers in the cube - slower but far more effective over the course of a game. It's not that I don't like or want the Hookmaster, I just don't see where he fits in better than or upgrades over anything I have. Tight cube it tight, and I'm already stretching it by cramming extra cards into it.
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
I think the general consensus is that First Strike > Bushido > Flanking, hence why I replaced Suq'Ata Lancer with the Ruinous Minotuar. He's a healthy dude that does a lot for me. Spur Grappler is already in here and for any breakneck B/R or R/G aggro deck, "tapping out" every turn is not a drawback at all. The 'Taur can get there for five with a virtually neglible drawback. What I really like is the subtle implication: either the opponent trades away some X/5 or less dude (or has to hold back a 2/X first strike dude) or takes five to the face - it's a punisher mechanic I can really get behind in a Limited environment.
I think I may over-value him slightly, but he seems great for mad red beats and makes a great partner for Grappler if thay can team up.
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
Do the new ZEN common non-basics Kabira Crossroads and others warrant an inclusion if room can be found? I'm asking because of adding the Map. I would count Desert instead of the Piranha Marsh and add the other 4.
Do the new ZEN common non-basics Kabira Crossroads and others warrant an inclusion if room can be found? I'm asking because of adding the Map. I would count Desert instead of the Piranha Marsh and add the other 4.
Long Version (Short Version below): To be honest, the only one of these common "spell-lands" that I would like to add is Teetering Peaks. A free +2/+0 with access to red mana seems great when burn is the most common splash and that +2/+0 virtually assures that you can send a formerly 1/X dude in and get a trade up on the block.
The others are fine too but in a cube so focused on aggro the other abilities are significantly less relevant. I wouldn't just add the four and skip one - Piranha Marsh is a fine turn one play if you don't have a one drop (like, say, you're playing U/B or B/G) and providing unbalanced access to colored mana from nonbasics seem inelegant and clunky.
The main reason that I don't add them is the lack of "punch value" they add: none of these feel super efficient compared to the lands I have and without landfall on every other card they don't provide any synergy (though I'm considering adding Adventuring Gear and/or Explorer's Scope after seeing them in action enough). Fitting these in likely requires cutting five of something, and I would like to keep my overall land count low. There aren't any lands that I can clearly cut (thanks again Klug! :)) but if I end up adding some equipment that provides benefits from running lands I think it could balance out.
Short Version: Only one appeals to me and unless I provide real incentive to run spell-land nonbasics over a basic I don't see adding them.
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
Got a chance to play with this yesterday, some good fun.
From my very limited experience I just want to single out cuombajj witches. There's so many 1 toughness creatures in this cube, both within the black the BB commitment suggests, and even in blue with all the tims, that it's hard not to get wrecked by your own ability. Not useless in a deck full of big butts (toughness) but does that require B/G?
For restoring the multi focus.... did you take a look at off-color activations? Whip-spine drake, Shadow Guildmage, etc. were powerful cards in their environments, and there's a ton of these kind of cards in the three multicolor blocks that won't show up on a "gold" search.
Finally remember that most common fixing comes with a tempo hit. So a cube full of super efficient common weenies might be keeping the 3+color down more than the power level of the multicolor itself.
In terms of ZEN, I like your limited additions. I would love to find a slot for Grazing Gladehart somewhere, but your green 3-drops are pretty tight. The only thing that might be able to be cut is either Borderland Ranger or Civic Wayfinder, but I think there's good cause to have both of those cards in there.
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also, I cut Thornweald Archer for Recluse
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I like Patron since he muddles up the "I wonder what morph you have there?" question. Morph is strongest when your opponent has no clue what it could be and guesses incorrectly. I like morph variety and a two color deck should be able to use these best.
The first post is updated - I stopped updating my blog for now. I'd like to find a better way to share the cube than to just point to this thread, which is what I was doing consistently. The discussions here have been so relevant that I can't avoid simply making this the home base (which I'm glad to have), I just need a clever way to integrate more content.
I would not cut Thornweald Archer for Deadly Recluse - in fact, I was generally convinced that the opposite would be better. I run both because they're awesome and I like green to have access to any removal and removal-like effects it can get.
ZEN Changes as of 10/1:
OUT --for--> IN
WHITE:
Brilliant Halo ----> Journey to Nowhere - Removal, yar!
Lumithread Field ----> Kor Sanctifier - Disenchant on a stick.
Aven Squire ----> Kor Skyfisher - Better two-drop.
BLUE:
Repeal ----> Into the Roil - The same but better?
Cloud Elemental ----> Welkin Tern - Blue aggro FTW
BLACK:
Executioner's Capsule ----> Disfigure - More efficiency.
Foul Imp ----> Heartstabber Mosquito - More removal.
Severed Legion ----> Vampire Lacerator - Aggro FTW
RED:
Flame Jet ----> Burst Lightning - Modal efficiency.
Tin Street Hooligan ----> Ruinous Minotaur - 5 power for three is just too good to pass up. (See below for importqnt Hooligan info.)
Suq'Ata Lander ----> Torch Slinger - ETB burn is great.
GREEN:
Sudden Strength ----> Vines of Vastwood - Better pump spell.
Giant Warthog ----> Mold Shambler - Mini-Woodfall Primus FTW
ARTIFACT:
~ADD~ ----> Expedition Map - Colorless Sylvan Scrying? Sure.
MULTICOLOR:
Yavimaya Barbarian ----> Tin Street Hooligan - Hooligan was almost always cast as RG. This changes makes sense (and freed up room in Red).
These are the actual changes implemented and reflected in the first post. The Online Analysis does not have ZEN loaded yet so those links will not reflect changes until later. The last minute change was getting Ruinous Minotaur in here - he's a solid beater unanswered and holds the fort well for a red dude.
Let me know what you think!
Expedition map seems bad, there is no land in my commons cube worth paying 3 mana for.
Put the green expedition out of your mind, I can't for the life of me think of a reason to have an explosive vegetation in commons cube once I've already got 5 lands at minimum out. The best expedition is probably the black one, but not sure I'm putting that one in. I put the red one in just because it's cool and not that bad. Also red non-burn spells tend to be terrible at common so it's nice to have one that is actually decent.
Kor Hookmaster is awesome in an aggressive white deck, a great tempo play.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=174913
As for Expedition Map, both Desert and Arena are great cards to fetch up, and tell the player splashing Fireball that a Mountain isn't worth the 3 it woudl cost to go get? Map will be great - I had no color issues and only one land to fetch in my prerelease deck (Teetering Peaks, FYI) and it was worth it every single time. It also saved my bacon when I did need fixing (i.e. didn't draw my Arid Mesa - if you can't tell I went solid Red-White). I love the Map and you should too - again, this thing is colorless Sylan Scrying!
I am skipping on Khalni Heart Expedition for now, though it's tough to swallow losing out on two lands for 1G despite the quest-based nature.
Kor Hookmaster is a great tempo card and hits as a Grey Ogre - an acceptable size if unimpressive. My issue is that it's strictly that: tempo. I have five tappers in the cube - slower but far more effective over the course of a game. It's not that I don't like or want the Hookmaster, I just don't see where he fits in better than or upgrades over anything I have. Tight cube it tight, and I'm already stretching it by cramming extra cards into it.
I think Minotaur's underrated, I dunno if it makes the cut in a powered cube, but it's certainly worth a look in a pauper one.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
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I think the general consensus is that First Strike > Bushido > Flanking, hence why I replaced Suq'Ata Lancer with the Ruinous Minotuar. He's a healthy dude that does a lot for me. Spur Grappler is already in here and for any breakneck B/R or R/G aggro deck, "tapping out" every turn is not a drawback at all. The 'Taur can get there for five with a virtually neglible drawback. What I really like is the subtle implication: either the opponent trades away some X/5 or less dude (or has to hold back a 2/X first strike dude) or takes five to the face - it's a punisher mechanic I can really get behind in a Limited environment.
I think I may over-value him slightly, but he seems great for mad red beats and makes a great partner for Grappler if thay can team up.
Do the new ZEN common non-basics Kabira Crossroads and others warrant an inclusion if room can be found? I'm asking because of adding the Map. I would count Desert instead of the Piranha Marsh and add the other 4.
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Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
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Long Version (Short Version below): To be honest, the only one of these common "spell-lands" that I would like to add is Teetering Peaks. A free +2/+0 with access to red mana seems great when burn is the most common splash and that +2/+0 virtually assures that you can send a formerly 1/X dude in and get a trade up on the block.
The others are fine too but in a cube so focused on aggro the other abilities are significantly less relevant. I wouldn't just add the four and skip one - Piranha Marsh is a fine turn one play if you don't have a one drop (like, say, you're playing U/B or B/G) and providing unbalanced access to colored mana from nonbasics seem inelegant and clunky.
The main reason that I don't add them is the lack of "punch value" they add: none of these feel super efficient compared to the lands I have and without landfall on every other card they don't provide any synergy (though I'm considering adding Adventuring Gear and/or Explorer's Scope after seeing them in action enough). Fitting these in likely requires cutting five of something, and I would like to keep my overall land count low. There aren't any lands that I can clearly cut (thanks again Klug! :)) but if I end up adding some equipment that provides benefits from running lands I think it could balance out.
Short Version: Only one appeals to me and unless I provide real incentive to run spell-land nonbasics over a basic I don't see adding them.
I also wonder how the multitude of BB beaters does in a table of 2+ ppl trying to do the same B/x style
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From my very limited experience I just want to single out cuombajj witches. There's so many 1 toughness creatures in this cube, both within the black the BB commitment suggests, and even in blue with all the tims, that it's hard not to get wrecked by your own ability. Not useless in a deck full of big butts (toughness) but does that require B/G?
For restoring the multi focus.... did you take a look at off-color activations? Whip-spine drake, Shadow Guildmage, etc. were powerful cards in their environments, and there's a ton of these kind of cards in the three multicolor blocks that won't show up on a "gold" search.
Finally remember that most common fixing comes with a tempo hit. So a cube full of super efficient common weenies might be keeping the 3+color down more than the power level of the multicolor itself.