I think this card looks terrible. Losing life to generate creatures that cannot block makes it a total liability in non-control matchups. No evasion means a single 1/2 creature for your opponent makes this card do nothing. I'd rather play Wedding Announcement, while it costs 1 more mana it starts making tokens on your end step (meaning you get to attack the same turn) and transforms into an anthem to help you close out the game.
Yeah, this is an easy pass. Not being able to block means it's only good in aggressive decks (or decks that really need sacrifice fodder), and there are just so many better aggressive cards. This isn't even a bad raise the alarm until turn 4.
Yeah, this is an easy pass. Not being able to block means it's only good in aggressive decks (or decks that really need sacrifice fodder), and there are just so many better aggressive cards. This isn't even a bad raise the alarm until turn 4.
That sounds like 90% of Bitterblossom decks anyways - Bitterblossom really needs to be in a Stax, Tokens, sacrifice deck. I've played it in a Grixis Spells/ Delver style deck and I've found its just too slow except the grindiest decks.
I'm going to pay closer attention to this. Good sacrifice fodder generator is hard to come by and this can really help to improve a lot of archetypes.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I think it's kinda cool but I think 99% of players will prefer to pay 2 more mana for an Elspeth or Gideon that can immediately make tokens that block. The only selling point I really see here is that they're artifacts - if you can capitalize on that somehow, maybe some cubers will enjoy it.
I think it's kinda cool but I think 99% of players will prefer to pay 2 more mana for an Elspeth or Gideon that can immediately make tokens that block. The only selling point I really see here is that they're artifacts - if you can capitalize on that somehow, maybe some cubers will enjoy it.
Playing a 2 drop on turn 2 is very important, waiting 2 turns to do nothing really isn't a winning recipe.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Blocking is such a huge part of the job of a 1/1 token that I question the utility.
Toxic doesn't really do anyhing here other than eventually give lifelink to your mites. Regardless of that, white is quite easily able to compensate for a bit of life loss every turn, and I think would much appreciate an effect like this. However the tokens don't seem worth the gradual pace of the card or the life loss.
I think Resolute Reinforcements has both a higher floor (immediate value, flash, and ability to block) and a comparable ceiling (recursion for extra value). This seems like more of a niche card for niche environments.
would maybe be interested if tokens could block. Can’t block is a massive downside on a card like this.
I've noticed that your cube doesn't play Braids/ Smokestack/ Purphorous/ Yawgmoth/ Transmogrant's Crown etc. and I would agree this isn't ideal for those style of cubes. My experience is good sacrifice fodder is hard to come by, especially one that can come down at 2 CMC and produce 3+ bodies.
My experience with Bitterblossom is that its really lackuster if you're primarily playing it as a 2 CMC threat - I've played it in a Grixis delver style deck and its damage outcome was incredibly lackluster. With cards like Wreen and Six/ Liliana the Last hope etc. in addition to general power creep, my opponent can usually just overpower the 3-4 flyers you created.
Bitterblossom's strength comes from being a token generator in a Opposition/ Yawgmoth/ Recurring Nightmare/ Skullclamp deck. I've found that good sacrifice fodder are hard to come by these days and the best utility for cards such as yawgmoth, Skullclamp etc. is to provide additional utility for 1-drops (recursive/ non-recursive) in the mid to late game.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I think the main difference between Bitterblossom and this is that Bitterblossom can hold its own relatively well without synergies in my environment where this probably can't. Not being able to block and losing life is not a great combination. Also unlike black, white has plenty of ways to puke out tokens on the board.
I guess I'm the only one excited about this. I always interested in more sacrifice fodder as Sacrifice/ Aristocrats is what I'm most comfortable with.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I mean, I could run an Aristocrat-themed cube, and I still would not run this card, even there.
Toxic. Poison. Infect. (with or without Proliferate) I just don't want that ***** anywhere near my cube. No one ever likes losing to it and (frankly) it is boring to pilot because it reduces so many potentially-interesting game states to a very binary-feeling "how do I cheese out this last 1 point?!" It's literally Red Burn but you only need to reach 10 instead of 20. Just...not very satisfying imo.
Toxic. Poison. Infect. (with or without Proliferate) I just don't want that ***** anywhere near my cube. No one ever likes losing to it and (frankly) it is boring to pilot because it reduces so many potentially-interesting game states to a very binary-feeling "how do I cheese out this last 1 point?!" It's literally Red Burn but you only need to reach 10 instead of 20. Just...not very satisfying imo. Shrugs
I can't imagine the poison part of this card ever doing anything, in cube it's just flavour text. You'd need to get 10 hits in with the tokens, that's 10 damage with 1/1's that have no evasion. Any anthem, equipment or other creatures and your opponent runs out of life before gaining the 10 poison tokens. If your opponent has a single 2/2 blocker, it takes until turn 10 for you to win the game with poison, at which point you've already lost 8 life to the life drain.
would maybe be interested if tokens could block. Can’t block is a massive downside on a card like this.
I've noticed that your cube doesn't play Braids/ Smokestack/ Purphorous/ Yawgmoth/ Transmogrant's Crown etc. and I would agree this isn't ideal for those style of cubes. My experience is good sacrifice fodder is hard to come by, especially one that can come down at 2 CMC and produce 3+ bodies.
My experience with Bitterblossom is that its really lackuster if you're primarily playing it as a 2 CMC threat - I've played it in a Grixis delver style deck and its damage outcome was incredibly lackluster. With cards like Wreen and Six/ Liliana the Last hope etc. in addition to general power creep, my opponent can usually just overpower the 3-4 flyers you created.
Bitterblossom's strength comes from being a token generator in a Opposition/ Yawgmoth/ Recurring Nightmare/ Skullclamp deck. I've found that good sacrifice fodder are hard to come by these days and the best utility for cards such as yawgmoth, Skullclamp etc. is to provide additional utility for 1-drops (recursive/ non-recursive) in the mid to late game.
my list is old , currently running aristocrats. Did in the past too.
My decade of experience with bitterblosm serves as the basis for comparison. I’ve also played other 2cmc token generators that underperformed.
there are decks this card will be fine in, but it’s unplayable as a good stuff card.
Toxic. Poison. Infect. (with or without Proliferate) I just don't want that ***** anywhere near my cube. No one ever likes losing to it and (frankly) it is boring to pilot because it reduces so many potentially-interesting game states to a very binary-feeling "how do I cheese out this last 1 point?!" It's literally Red Burn but you only need to reach 10 instead of 20. Just...not very satisfying imo. Shrugs
I can't imagine the poison part of this card ever doing anything, in cube it's just flavour text. You'd need to get 10 hits in with the tokens, that's 10 damage with 1/1's that have no evasion. Any anthem, equipment or other creatures and your opponent runs out of life before gaining the 10 poison tokens. If your opponent has a single 2/2 blocker, it takes until turn 10 for you to win the game with poison, at which point you've already lost 8 life to the life drain.
White is actually in a very good position for poison to do something via Stoneforge Mystic fetching equipement or pump effects like Elspeth / Wandering Emperor / etc. It's very realistic for white to achieve the poison threshold bonus for this card.
White is actually in a very good position for poison to do something via Stoneforge Mystic fetching equipement or pump effects like Elspeth / Wandering Emperor / etc. It's not too hard for white to grant lifelink to all your creatures after a single hit.
I only now realised the card has that second paragraph of text
White is actually in a very good position for poison to do something via Stoneforge Mystic fetching equipement or pump effects like Elspeth / Wandering Emperor / etc. It's very realistic for white to achieve the poison threshold bonus for this card.
Toxic doesn't scale via pump effects, so the only buffs that will get you the lifelink faster are those that grant evasion. Even at that, only toxic guys get lifelink. It's tough to make this good, and I think the environment would have to care about poison to want it.
Bitterblossom in white, anyone? It is annoying that they're not evasive and can't block, but white may make better use of the tokens than black.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
That sounds like 90% of Bitterblossom decks anyways - Bitterblossom really needs to be in a Stax, Tokens, sacrifice deck. I've played it in a Grixis Spells/ Delver style deck and I've found its just too slow except the grindiest decks.
I'm going to pay closer attention to this. Good sacrifice fodder generator is hard to come by and this can really help to improve a lot of archetypes.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Playing a 2 drop on turn 2 is very important, waiting 2 turns to do nothing really isn't a winning recipe.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Toxic doesn't really do anyhing here other than eventually give lifelink to your mites. Regardless of that, white is quite easily able to compensate for a bit of life loss every turn, and I think would much appreciate an effect like this. However the tokens don't seem worth the gradual pace of the card or the life loss.
I think Resolute Reinforcements has both a higher floor (immediate value, flash, and ability to block) and a comparable ceiling (recursion for extra value). This seems like more of a niche card for niche environments.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
would maybe be interested if tokens could block. Can’t block is a massive downside on a card like this.
Last Updated 02/07/24
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I've noticed that your cube doesn't play Braids/ Smokestack/ Purphorous/ Yawgmoth/ Transmogrant's Crown etc. and I would agree this isn't ideal for those style of cubes. My experience is good sacrifice fodder is hard to come by, especially one that can come down at 2 CMC and produce 3+ bodies.
My experience with Bitterblossom is that its really lackuster if you're primarily playing it as a 2 CMC threat - I've played it in a Grixis delver style deck and its damage outcome was incredibly lackluster. With cards like Wreen and Six/ Liliana the Last hope etc. in addition to general power creep, my opponent can usually just overpower the 3-4 flyers you created.
Bitterblossom's strength comes from being a token generator in a Opposition/ Yawgmoth/ Recurring Nightmare/ Skullclamp deck. I've found that good sacrifice fodder are hard to come by these days and the best utility for cards such as yawgmoth, Skullclamp etc. is to provide additional utility for 1-drops (recursive/ non-recursive) in the mid to late game.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I mean, I could run an Aristocrat-themed cube, and I still would not run this card, even there.
Toxic. Poison. Infect. (with or without Proliferate) I just don't want that ***** anywhere near my cube. No one ever likes losing to it and (frankly) it is boring to pilot because it reduces so many potentially-interesting game states to a very binary-feeling "how do I cheese out this last 1 point?!" It's literally Red Burn but you only need to reach 10 instead of 20. Just...not very satisfying imo.
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I can't imagine the poison part of this card ever doing anything, in cube it's just flavour text. You'd need to get 10 hits in with the tokens, that's 10 damage with 1/1's that have no evasion. Any anthem, equipment or other creatures and your opponent runs out of life before gaining the 10 poison tokens. If your opponent has a single 2/2 blocker, it takes until turn 10 for you to win the game with poison, at which point you've already lost 8 life to the life drain.
my list is old , currently running aristocrats. Did in the past too.
My decade of experience with bitterblosm serves as the basis for comparison. I’ve also played other 2cmc token generators that underperformed.
there are decks this card will be fine in, but it’s unplayable as a good stuff card.
Low floor, medium ceiling not a winning recipe.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
White is actually in a very good position for poison to do something via Stoneforge Mystic fetching equipement or pump effects like Elspeth / Wandering Emperor / etc. It's very realistic for white to achieve the poison threshold bonus for this card.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
I only now realised the card has that second paragraph of text
Toxic doesn't scale via pump effects, so the only buffs that will get you the lifelink faster are those that grant evasion. Even at that, only toxic guys get lifelink. It's tough to make this good, and I think the environment would have to care about poison to want it.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.