I think Frontier Explorer is underplayed. I prefer insurance against mana screw than mana flood.
This ability is sweet, definitely just bonus value. Could be better than Soldier of the Pantheon. But I think Dauntless Bodyguard is also better than this.
Sauce if you have 3 mana to activate frontier explorer in an aggro deck, i wouldnt call that mana screw. & if ur in a position in an aggro deck where ur wanting to activate the scout's ability....
But d0rsal, I could say the same thing about activating Recruitment Officer's ability: if you're doing that, things have gone badly for you. Between falling behind my opponent on resources, or having plenty of mana and not enough gas, I consider the former to be the worst scenario to be stuck in; even if it's less likely to come up, I prefer the card that could very occasionally dig me out of a truly crappy hole.
But d0rsal, I could say the same thing about activating Recruitment Officer's ability: if you're doing that, things have gone badly for you. Between falling behind my opponent on resources, or having plenty of mana and not enough gas, I consider the former to be the worst scenario to be stuck in; even if it's less likely to come up, I prefer the card that could very occasionally dig me out of a truly crappy hole.
100% agree about having more mana than not enuff. if someone ever hands me a deck to play, i almost always take out the worst card & add another land b/c i'd rather be able to play than not play @ all. however, 3 mana is pretty much the sweet spot for a low to the ground aggro deck. beyond that, the major difference between frontier explorer & Recruitment officer, is that the 1st has to tap to do its thing, while the latter does not. being able to continue to turn the creature sideways to apply pressure vs having to choose to activate is a really big deal; the officer @ least allows you to do both
Aggressive decks function pretty well if they're choked on mana. The decks tend to fail when they flood. Having a 2-power 1-drop with built-in flood insurance is exactly what I'm looking for when things aren't going the way I want them to. Looking forward to seeing this card in action.
For us it's about our 1 drops being playable in non-aggro decks, since damn near any old 1 mana 2/1 with a pulse is playable in aggro decks. All of our red one drops are either Grim Lavamancer or have haste so they can be decent filler for our red midrange decks since they can pressure walkers and get value off of equipments after opponent's wraths. All of our black one drops are just hand attack spells or the new Evolved Sleeper and "Lifetime" Pass Holder since we hope they can be high enough value to be good midrange value engines too. The green 1 drops are all mana dorks or Hexdrinker, which are all useful in a variety of decks.
White ones have been in the same vein with cards like Mother of Runes, Giver of Runes, Thraben Inspector, and even Kytheon, Hero of Akros often makes appearances in midrange decks that can generate enough bodies. Esper Sentinel has been a sorta hit-or-miss card on powerlevel for our cube, but actually manages to make it into some midrange maindecks too. We've been super disappointed with Dauntless Bodyguard (and were even more unimpressed with Usher of the Fallen when we played that for a while) since they honestly struggle to manage doing anything for midrange decks when they got played, until people just stopped playing with them outside of aggro decks completely.
This ability seems much more impactful for midrange decks, and represents another value engine that control decks are forced to answer with single target removal, especially on turn 5 if you play and activate this on your opponent's EOT. My only fear would be that on paper you'd want at least 10 other hits with this ability in your deck, which while in white probably shouldn't be too hard, could be preventative for certain color combos like UW that are generally more reliant on 4 drops and counterspells, or in colors like green where most of the hits are just mana dorks which are generally pretty low impact that late in the game. Not sure if you just need 10+ hits, or if you need closer to 10 good hits, probably depends of if you have Opposition/Skullclamp/Fauna Shaman/Garruk Wildspeaker in your deck or not lol
Beyond that, excited to test this at 360, prob the second best white 2/1 after Kytheon imo
We've been super disappointed with Dauntless Bodyguard (and were even more unimpressed with Usher of the Fallen when we played that for a while) since they honestly manage to struggle to do anything for midrange decks when they got played, until people just stopped playing with them outside of aggro decks completely.
I've had the opposite experience: Dauntless Bodyguard and Usher of the Fallen have performed very well for me, especially compared to the other Savannah Lion variants I've played over the years. Their abilities are very efficient and relevant to what white aggro wants to be doing, where a lot of others have situational abilities like Soldier of the Pantheon / Mardu Woe Reaper. My top 4 Savannah Lion variants (in no particular order) are Kytheon / Isamaru / Usher of the Fallen / Dauntless Bodyguard.
We've been super disappointed with Dauntless Bodyguard (and were even more unimpressed with Usher of the Fallen when we played that for a while) since they honestly manage to struggle to do anything for midrange decks when they got played, until people just stopped playing with them outside of aggro decks completely.
I've had the opposite experience: Dauntless Bodyguard and Usher of the Fallen have performed very well for me, especially compared to the other Savannah Lion variants I've played over the years. Their abilities are very efficient and relevant to what white aggro wants to be doing, where a lot of others have situational abilities like Soldier of the Pantheon / Mardu Woe Reaper. My top 4 Savannah Lion variants (in no particular order) are Kytheon / Isamaru / Usher of the Fallen / Dauntless Bodyguard.
Fully agree here. Not all 2/1's are created equal, and there's a huge falloff after these top 4 (yes, one's a 2/2). And there's also a falloff between the ones with minor upside and the true savannah lion variants, although it's not as huge. But, you should obviously run them over the vanilla 2/1's.
My main complaint with cards like this one, the late game mana sinks for aggro, is that while it is great to have such a sink, it's been my experience that the games where you have to resort to activating something like this in aggro, you're losing 95% of those games. So yes, well it's great to have a card that takes you from a 1% chance to win to a 5% chance to win, it's still a minority of games that it comes up in and you're still losing the vast majority of those games. That's why I prefer soldier of the pantheon over this card - it's a similarly minor upside, but it's relevant much more often. I wouldn't fault anyone for liking this style of card more, but the ability is incredibly incremental, especially since it can't find real reach in the form of burn spells, but only creatures.
Edit - as an exercise, imagine instead this card had the ability "3W, deal 1 damage to target player" (ignore the color pie break). That card would be wildly better than this one, and that's still a really bad rate to deal 1 damage to an opponent.
We've been super disappointed with Dauntless Bodyguard (and were even more unimpressed with Usher of the Fallen when we played that for a while) since they honestly manage to struggle to do anything for midrange decks when they got played, until people just stopped playing with them outside of aggro decks completely.
I've had the opposite experience: Dauntless Bodyguard and Usher of the Fallen have performed very well for me, especially compared to the other Savannah Lion variants I've played over the years. Their abilities are very efficient and relevant to what white aggro wants to be doing, where a lot of others have situational abilities like Soldier of the Pantheon / Mardu Woe Reaper. My top 4 Savannah Lion variants (in no particular order) are Kytheon / Isamaru / Usher of the Fallen / Dauntless Bodyguard.
Same. I’ve activated many an usher ability and dauntless have protected many a creatures and many times have those effected the outcome of the game.
edit: re-read Scott’s post. Not a fan of the philosophy to evaluate 1 drops solely on their usefulness in midrange decks… but I agree, in specifically midrange , most of the white 1 drops will underperform and their relative power will change compared to when they are in Agro.
Though, I actually think both those cards do fine in midrange. One can win the game by itself in theory and the other can protect a key expensive threat.
We've been super disappointed with Dauntless Bodyguard (and were even more unimpressed with Usher of the Fallen when we played that for a while) since they honestly manage to struggle to do anything for midrange decks when they got played, until people just stopped playing with them outside of aggro decks completely.
I've had the opposite experience: Dauntless Bodyguard and Usher of the Fallen have performed very well for me, especially compared to the other Savannah Lion variants I've played over the years. Their abilities are very efficient and relevant to what white aggro wants to be doing, where a lot of others have situational abilities like Soldier of the Pantheon / Mardu Woe Reaper. My top 4 Savannah Lion variants (in no particular order) are Kytheon / Isamaru / Usher of the Fallen / Dauntless Bodyguard.
Fully agree here. Not all 2/1's are created equal, and there's a huge falloff after these top 4 (yes, one's a 2/2). And there's also a falloff between the ones with minor upside and the true savannah lion variants, although it's not as huge. But, you should obviously run them over the vanilla 2/1's.
My main complaint with cards like this one, the late game mana sinks for aggro, is that while it is great to have such a sink, it's been my experience that the games where you have to resort to activating something like this in aggro, you're losing 95% of those games. So yes, well it's great to have a card that takes you from a 1% chance to win to a 5% chance to win, it's still a minority of games that it comes up in and you're still losing the vast majority of those games. That's why I prefer soldier of the pantheon over this card - it's a similarly minor upside, but it's relevant much more often. I wouldn't fault anyone for liking this style of card more, but the ability is incredibly incremental, especially since it can't find real reach in the form of burn spells, but only creatures.
Edit - as an exercise, imagine instead this card had the ability "3W, deal 1 damage to target player" (ignore the color pie break). That card would be wildly better than this one, and that's still a really bad rate to deal 1 damage to an opponent.
That card would be wildly *worse* than this one 🧐
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
We've been super disappointed with Dauntless Bodyguard (and were even more unimpressed with Usher of the Fallen when we played that for a while) since they honestly manage to struggle to do anything for midrange decks when they got played, until people just stopped playing with them outside of aggro decks completely.
I've had the opposite experience: Dauntless Bodyguard and Usher of the Fallen have performed very well for me, especially compared to the other Savannah Lion variants I've played over the years. Their abilities are very efficient and relevant to what white aggro wants to be doing, where a lot of others have situational abilities like Soldier of the Pantheon / Mardu Woe Reaper. My top 4 Savannah Lion variants (in no particular order) are Kytheon / Isamaru / Usher of the Fallen / Dauntless Bodyguard.
We found them to be fine, and they are definitely at the top of the heap of the straight white 2/1s, but I think you're missing what I'm trying to explain. These cards might be good in aggro decks, and are arguably better than a variety of white 1 drops like Thraben Inspector or Recruitment Officer in these aggro decks, but the disparity in speed or value isn't substantial enough to warrant playing them over the alternatives. Maybe this is just a side-effect of having such a small cube, but if a card isn't broken (Natural Order) or absolutely fundamental support for an archetype (Craterhoof Behemoth), then the support cards need to go into several decks. White aggro decks need a critical mass of one drops available to function properly, but midrange decks are their own archetype that require their own unique support, and cards like Usher of the Fallen have just not worth been worth playing in slightly higher curve midrange decks, making it exclusively an aggro card. Space is too tight, and that's just too narrow for us.
I feel like Dauntless Bodyguard requires its own explanation though, as I think its struggles may have had more to do with what specific removal and wraths we play in our cube. Literally almost all of our single target removal isn't "destroy" based outside of the small burn spells (I think before our most recent update it was 5 cards out of 375), and neither are the vast majority of our actual wraths (currently 2 cards, before our last update it was 3). The ability was just legitimately not useful for us at all, and we've had it in for over 4 years at this point.
Same. I’ve activated many an usher ability and dauntless have protected many a creatures and many times have those effected the outcome of the game.
edit: re-read Scott’s post. Not a fan of the philosophy to evaluate 1 drops solely on their usefulness in midrange decks… but I agree, in specifically midrange , most of the white 1 drops will underperform and their relative power will change compared to when they are in Agro.
Though, I actually think both those cards do fine in midrange. One can win the game by itself in theory and the other can protect a key expensive threat.
I feel like on paper they should be decent midrange cards, and I'm sure your positive and repeated experiences with those creatures are completely legitimate, but in our environment they simply haven't performed that way in non-aggro decks.
It's not that aggro creatures have to go into midrange decks too, it's that they usually have to go into more than just aggro. Rotting Regisaur isn't just an awesome aggro creature, it's also a great discard outlet in reanimator. Undermountain Adventurer isn't just serviceable aggro top-end, it's also a sweet midgame enabler for green ramp decks. Ral Zarek gets played in some faster izzet decks, but he also accelerates artifact ramp and can enable Time Vault combos. Not every card can fit this mold, but we generally prioritize inclusions that can.
I should also mention that your assertion that "most of the white 1 drops will underperform and their relative power will change compared to when they are in aggro" is correct in regards to most of the one drop 2/1-esque creatures, but not for small cubes. We personally play 6 white 1s, and between the 2 moms, Thraben Inspector, and this new Recruitment Officer card, I think 2/3s of our 1s will be just as good if not better in midrange decks than in aggro decks. I know the minutia of that statement isn't super important most of the time, but I hope this illustrates that there's an actual precedent set at our size for how almost all of our aggro creatures should play, and that this precedent is routinely met.
Yea I'm in the same boat. I think this is much more comparable to Spectral Sailor, and I think this card's body and combined abilities are both much better than that card or the alternative 2/1 with the hypothesized player ping ability.
Hard disagree (from an aggro perspective, which is how all w 2/1's should be evaluated). Being able to ping for 1 actually advances your game plan and can win after your opponent stabilizes with blockers. Adding more mostly irrelevant creatures to the board doesn't really do it.
Hard disagree (from an aggro perspective, which is how all w 2/1's should be evaluated). Being able to ping for 1 actually advances your game plan and can win after your opponent stabilizes with blockers. Adding more mostly irrelevant creatures to the board doesn't really do it.
Yeah, I'd rather have a Savannah Lion deal 1 damage to a player rather than maybe drawing up to a 3-cmc creature for a 3W activation cost. One of white aggro's downsides compared to red aggro is that sometimes it can just get walled out if you don't have flying and your opponent stabilizes on the ground. Red at least has the luxury of chucking burn at the opponent's face for the last few points of damage.
Is this a bit? Very hard for me to imagine otherwise.
Sure ping would be nice when your opp is at extremely low life, but recruiter usually wins those games too as well as contributing real cards to ones where they *aren’t* at super low life — which happens a lot!
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
Is this a bit? Very hard for me to imagine otherwise.
Sure ping would be nice when your opp is at extremely low life, but recruiter usually wins those games too as well as contributing real cards to ones where they *aren’t* at super low life — which happens a lot!
It's more mana efficient. Assuming you have 4 mana, you can deal 3 damage with the ping ability by the time you draw / cast / swing with whatever creature you (might have) drawn.
While mana sinks can be useful, this is a slow mana sink that wants to be in a fast deck. There are a good amount of aggressive mana sinks (level up / Figure of Destiny type creatures) which play better in aggro. Too many mana sinks can also be a bad thing since they're competing for mana (which is at a premium in an aggro deck with a low curve that might be shaving lands). The only thing appealing about this particular mana sink is that it has the best floor along side Hexdrinker by already starting off as a Savannah Lion, but its payoff is much more expensive.
The ping-lion would be a pretty cool card too, but I think I'm on team Recruitment Officer on this one. Getting to dig for a chance at a Mother of Runes to give my biggest guy evasion, a Selfless Spirit to give my team wrath protection, or a Skyclave Apparition to remove a problem permanent seems really good. I think it's totally fair to argue this is obviously happening at later stages of a game and thus might be too late to be relevant (how much mana do we really have in a turn), but this ability is doing precisely what the aggro decks would want to keep fighting if initial phases of the game didn't play out perfectly, and there is likely no clear winner next turn.
It seems like maybe there are differences in design philosophy here? It's like some people are looking for aggro cards to win faster, and others are looking for ways to give aggro decks endurance. I personally want my aggro players not to have a mentality of "I basically win on turn 4-5, or not at all". And I feel like if I adopted that perspective and front-loaded all my aggro cards, that would almost be a self-fulfilling prophecy? While the general plan of aggro is to beat the opponent before they get to enact their plan, I don't think I've ever played in a limited setting where aggro players simply never reach 6 mana or higher in their best-of-3s. It's uncommon that aggro plays the perfect curve-out, and it's uncommon that the control decks draw into all their tools or wincons precisely when they want them. Classic matchups can go incredibly long. And I anticipate this card will do well there.
Sauce if you have 3 mana to activate frontier explorer in an aggro deck, i wouldnt call that mana screw. & if ur in a position in an aggro deck where ur wanting to activate the scout's ability....
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100% agree about having more mana than not enuff. if someone ever hands me a deck to play, i almost always take out the worst card & add another land b/c i'd rather be able to play than not play @ all. however, 3 mana is pretty much the sweet spot for a low to the ground aggro deck. beyond that, the major difference between frontier explorer & Recruitment officer, is that the 1st has to tap to do its thing, while the latter does not. being able to continue to turn the creature sideways to apply pressure vs having to choose to activate is a really big deal; the officer @ least allows you to do both
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going to keep usher and dauntless bodyguard for now.
For us it's about our 1 drops being playable in non-aggro decks, since damn near any old 1 mana 2/1 with a pulse is playable in aggro decks. All of our red one drops are either Grim Lavamancer or have haste so they can be decent filler for our red midrange decks since they can pressure walkers and get value off of equipments after opponent's wraths. All of our black one drops are just hand attack spells or the new Evolved Sleeper and "Lifetime" Pass Holder since we hope they can be high enough value to be good midrange value engines too. The green 1 drops are all mana dorks or Hexdrinker, which are all useful in a variety of decks.
White ones have been in the same vein with cards like Mother of Runes, Giver of Runes, Thraben Inspector, and even Kytheon, Hero of Akros often makes appearances in midrange decks that can generate enough bodies. Esper Sentinel has been a sorta hit-or-miss card on powerlevel for our cube, but actually manages to make it into some midrange maindecks too. We've been super disappointed with Dauntless Bodyguard (and were even more unimpressed with Usher of the Fallen when we played that for a while) since they honestly struggle to manage doing anything for midrange decks when they got played, until people just stopped playing with them outside of aggro decks completely.
This ability seems much more impactful for midrange decks, and represents another value engine that control decks are forced to answer with single target removal, especially on turn 5 if you play and activate this on your opponent's EOT. My only fear would be that on paper you'd want at least 10 other hits with this ability in your deck, which while in white probably shouldn't be too hard, could be preventative for certain color combos like UW that are generally more reliant on 4 drops and counterspells, or in colors like green where most of the hits are just mana dorks which are generally pretty low impact that late in the game. Not sure if you just need 10+ hits, or if you need closer to 10 good hits, probably depends of if you have Opposition/Skullclamp/Fauna Shaman/Garruk Wildspeaker in your deck or not lol
Beyond that, excited to test this at 360, prob the second best white 2/1 after Kytheon imo
I've had the opposite experience: Dauntless Bodyguard and Usher of the Fallen have performed very well for me, especially compared to the other Savannah Lion variants I've played over the years. Their abilities are very efficient and relevant to what white aggro wants to be doing, where a lot of others have situational abilities like Soldier of the Pantheon / Mardu Woe Reaper. My top 4 Savannah Lion variants (in no particular order) are Kytheon / Isamaru / Usher of the Fallen / Dauntless Bodyguard.
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Fully agree here. Not all 2/1's are created equal, and there's a huge falloff after these top 4 (yes, one's a 2/2). And there's also a falloff between the ones with minor upside and the true savannah lion variants, although it's not as huge. But, you should obviously run them over the vanilla 2/1's.
My main complaint with cards like this one, the late game mana sinks for aggro, is that while it is great to have such a sink, it's been my experience that the games where you have to resort to activating something like this in aggro, you're losing 95% of those games. So yes, well it's great to have a card that takes you from a 1% chance to win to a 5% chance to win, it's still a minority of games that it comes up in and you're still losing the vast majority of those games. That's why I prefer soldier of the pantheon over this card - it's a similarly minor upside, but it's relevant much more often. I wouldn't fault anyone for liking this style of card more, but the ability is incredibly incremental, especially since it can't find real reach in the form of burn spells, but only creatures.
Edit - as an exercise, imagine instead this card had the ability "3W, deal 1 damage to target player" (ignore the color pie break). That card would be wildly better than this one, and that's still a really bad rate to deal 1 damage to an opponent.
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Same. I’ve activated many an usher ability and dauntless have protected many a creatures and many times have those effected the outcome of the game.
edit: re-read Scott’s post. Not a fan of the philosophy to evaluate 1 drops solely on their usefulness in midrange decks… but I agree, in specifically midrange , most of the white 1 drops will underperform and their relative power will change compared to when they are in Agro.
Though, I actually think both those cards do fine in midrange. One can win the game by itself in theory and the other can protect a key expensive threat.
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That card would be wildly *worse* than this one 🧐
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I feel like Dauntless Bodyguard requires its own explanation though, as I think its struggles may have had more to do with what specific removal and wraths we play in our cube. Literally almost all of our single target removal isn't "destroy" based outside of the small burn spells (I think before our most recent update it was 5 cards out of 375), and neither are the vast majority of our actual wraths (currently 2 cards, before our last update it was 3). The ability was just legitimately not useful for us at all, and we've had it in for over 4 years at this point.
I feel like on paper they should be decent midrange cards, and I'm sure your positive and repeated experiences with those creatures are completely legitimate, but in our environment they simply haven't performed that way in non-aggro decks.
It's not that aggro creatures have to go into midrange decks too, it's that they usually have to go into more than just aggro. Rotting Regisaur isn't just an awesome aggro creature, it's also a great discard outlet in reanimator. Undermountain Adventurer isn't just serviceable aggro top-end, it's also a sweet midgame enabler for green ramp decks. Ral Zarek gets played in some faster izzet decks, but he also accelerates artifact ramp and can enable Time Vault combos. Not every card can fit this mold, but we generally prioritize inclusions that can.
I should also mention that your assertion that "most of the white 1 drops will underperform and their relative power will change compared to when they are in aggro" is correct in regards to most of the one drop 2/1-esque creatures, but not for small cubes. We personally play 6 white 1s, and between the 2 moms, Thraben Inspector, and this new Recruitment Officer card, I think 2/3s of our 1s will be just as good if not better in midrange decks than in aggro decks. I know the minutia of that statement isn't super important most of the time, but I hope this illustrates that there's an actual precedent set at our size for how almost all of our aggro creatures should play, and that this precedent is routinely met.
Yea I'm in the same boat. I think this is much more comparable to Spectral Sailor, and I think this card's body and combined abilities are both much better than that card or the alternative 2/1 with the hypothesized player ping ability.
Hard disagree (from an aggro perspective, which is how all w 2/1's should be evaluated). Being able to ping for 1 actually advances your game plan and can win after your opponent stabilizes with blockers. Adding more mostly irrelevant creatures to the board doesn't really do it.
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Yeah, I'd rather have a Savannah Lion deal 1 damage to a player rather than maybe drawing up to a 3-cmc creature for a 3W activation cost. One of white aggro's downsides compared to red aggro is that sometimes it can just get walled out if you don't have flying and your opponent stabilizes on the ground. Red at least has the luxury of chucking burn at the opponent's face for the last few points of damage.
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Sure ping would be nice when your opp is at extremely low life, but recruiter usually wins those games too as well as contributing real cards to ones where they *aren’t* at super low life — which happens a lot!
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It's more mana efficient. Assuming you have 4 mana, you can deal 3 damage with the ping ability by the time you draw / cast / swing with whatever creature you (might have) drawn.
While mana sinks can be useful, this is a slow mana sink that wants to be in a fast deck. There are a good amount of aggressive mana sinks (level up / Figure of Destiny type creatures) which play better in aggro. Too many mana sinks can also be a bad thing since they're competing for mana (which is at a premium in an aggro deck with a low curve that might be shaving lands). The only thing appealing about this particular mana sink is that it has the best floor along side Hexdrinker by already starting off as a Savannah Lion, but its payoff is much more expensive.
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It seems like maybe there are differences in design philosophy here? It's like some people are looking for aggro cards to win faster, and others are looking for ways to give aggro decks endurance. I personally want my aggro players not to have a mentality of "I basically win on turn 4-5, or not at all". And I feel like if I adopted that perspective and front-loaded all my aggro cards, that would almost be a self-fulfilling prophecy? While the general plan of aggro is to beat the opponent before they get to enact their plan, I don't think I've ever played in a limited setting where aggro players simply never reach 6 mana or higher in their best-of-3s. It's uncommon that aggro plays the perfect curve-out, and it's uncommon that the control decks draw into all their tools or wincons precisely when they want them. Classic matchups can go incredibly long. And I anticipate this card will do well there.