3W: Look at top four of your library. You may reveal a creature card with mana value 3 or less from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on bottom in a random order.
I'm going to play devil's advocate a bit and say that the recruit ability at 4 is a nice to have, but I feel its something that is likely to come up every 4-5 games.
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Is this even a 360 staple? I like it a lot but competition is pretty fierce at that size now.
Agreed. This would've been a 360 staple for me pre 2015, but I this is borderline for me at 540. As a mana sink, I don't think this is necessarily better than Usher of the Fallen / Student of Warfare.
Is this even a 360 staple? I like it a lot but competition is pretty fierce at that size now.
Agreed. This would've been a 360 staple for me pre 2015, but I this is borderline for me at 540. As a mana sink, I don't think this is necessarily better than Usher of the Fallen / Student of Warfare.
I think it's worse than both of those cards. Agreed with the sentiment.
I remember duskwatch recruiter underperforming for me, as the mana sink was too expensive to not effect the board. Sometimes it would take over games but most of the time it would be a 2 mana 2/2. A savannah lions base body is much more on curve , but this ability is much worse.
I'll likely test this over my worst savannah lions + upside card I have in my cube though. It could surprise.
Is this even a 360 staple? I like it a lot but competition is pretty fierce at that size now.
Agreed. This would've been a 360 staple for me pre 2015, but I this is borderline for me at 540. As a mana sink, I don't think this is necessarily better than Usher of the Fallen / Student of Warfare.
I think it's worse than both of those cards. Agreed with the sentiment.
I remember duskwatch recruiter underperforming for me, as the mana sink was too expensive to not effect the board. Sometimes it would take over games but most of the time it would be a 2 mana 2/2. A savannah lions base body is much more on curve , but this ability is much worse.
I'll likely test this over my worst savannah lions + upside card I have in my cube though. It could surprise.
I second all that.
I've found the competitive shells for Duskwatch Recruiters are decks with a minimum of 3+ tempo positive - Reflector Mage, Grist, Solitude, Grief or decks with 3-4 fast mana or decks with 3-4 absurd fast mana - Aether Vial, Gaea's Cradle, Devoted Druid Combo etc.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
4 mana draw that can whiff is bad, but being in a 1 mana value 2/1 makes it simply a bonus. This is lower tier 1 drop for white, so still fine for smaller cubes. But can be ignored as well given the multitude of frequent updates we get now.
I like it better than most of the others, but there's no shortage.
I generally agree with your Savnanah Lion sentiments, but I'd put Dauntless Bodyguard with Kytheon / Usher of the Fallen. My top 4 pure Savannah Lion variants (in no particular order) are Kytheon / Dauntless Bodyguard / Usher of the Fallen / Isamaru.
I like this slightly more than usher I think, which is right what it needs to slide into a lot of medium size cubes.
I think Usher is much better than this. Usher's ability being only 2 mana means it can pressure the opponent much more than Recruitment Officer, which is what the aggro deck wants to be doing. For those that tested Duskwatch Recruiter back in the day, that ability wasn't too great. This is more expensive, can't hit any creature, and doesn't the benefit of being in green.
I like this slightly more than usher I think, which is right what it needs to slide into a lot of medium size cubes.
I think Usher is much better than this. Usher's ability being only 2 mana means it can pressure the opponent much more than Recruitment Officer, which is what the aggro deck wants to be doing. For those that tested Duskwatch Recruiter back in the day, that ability wasn't too great. This is more expensive, can't hit any creature, and doesn't the benefit of being in green.
I disagree about duskwatch, found it excellent. What you don’t mention is that in exchange for being more expensive, the ability here is also *much* more impactful — Usher is good for converting mana gaps into minor board presence in the mid game, but it’s not a high impact card (which is fine for a 1 drop, to be clear). The upside here doesn’t come on line until later, but it’s actually capable of producing several meaningful bodies and converting board stalls or the topdeck phase of an attrition battle into a win. I think that will be price to be more valuable than Usher in cases where your 1 drop lives into or is topdeck Ed during the late game, and usher isn’t activated that much anyway in practice because you have better things to do with your mana until you reach the point of the game where they’re dead or this is better.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
Easy upgrade over one of the trinket text Savannah lions I run. I don't think this is up there with the very best of them but it's definitely teir 2 for me.
I will keep an idea on how often players are activating the ability though. It seems expensive enough for what it does, but it's repeatable late game value.
Might this see play outside of hard agro? I could see it being useful in something like aristocrats or stax where its a body that can draw you more bodies. If you are playing alot of cheap bodies you might even be able to top deck this and play the creature you got, in the late game obviously. I might be wrong but I think this goes in more decks than your average Savannah Lion.
I like this slightly more than usher I think, which is right what it needs to slide into a lot of medium size cubes.
I think Usher is much better than this. Usher's ability being only 2 mana means it can pressure the opponent much more than Recruitment Officer, which is what the aggro deck wants to be doing. For those that tested Duskwatch Recruiter back in the day, that ability wasn't too great. This is more expensive, can't hit any creature, and doesn't the benefit of being in green.
I disagree about duskwatch, found it excellent. What you don’t mention is that in exchange for being more expensive, the ability here is also *much* more impactful — Usher is good for converting mana gaps into minor board presence in the mid game, but it’s not a high impact card (which is fine for a 1 drop, to be clear). The upside here doesn’t come on line until later, but it’s actually capable of producing several meaningful bodies and converting board stalls or the topdeck phase of an attrition battle into a win. I think that will be price to be more valuable than Usher in cases where your 1 drop lives into or is topdeck Ed during the late game, and usher isn’t activated that much anyway in practice because you have better things to do with your mana until you reach the point of the game where they’re dead or this is better.
This only shines in late game board stalls, but even then I'd argue it's pretty slow and you'd generally rather be casting your other 3-4 drops before even activating this ability. White also really has plenty of things to break boardstalls: Mother of Runes / Giver of Runes / Stoneforge Mystic for the appropriate equipment / Elspeth, Knight-Errant / Parallax Wave / any monarch or initiative card / etc. Savannah Lions want to be applying pressure, and this really can't do that until later in the game.
I'm going to play devil's advocate a bit and say that the recruit ability at 4 is a nice to have, but I feel its something that is likely to come up every 4-5 games.
Yup. As cards have gotten more efficient, late game mana sinks for aggro have gotten less important, especially those that don't directly damage the opponent. I think this is probably on par with soldier of the pantheon, and its ability will be relevant about as often. The problem with this is when you are the aggro deck and you're activating this ability, you're probably in a bad spot anyway so the times where an ability like this gets you back in the game are incredibly rare. Especially with how narrow this is - you're spending 4 mana to find a creature that probably isn't relevant to the board on turn 4+ anyway, at least not on its own.
I like this slightly more than usher I think, which is right what it needs to slide into a lot of medium size cubes.
I think Usher is much better than this. Usher's ability being only 2 mana means it can pressure the opponent much more than Recruitment Officer, which is what the aggro deck wants to be doing. For those that tested Duskwatch Recruiter back in the day, that ability wasn't too great. This is more expensive, can't hit any creature, and doesn't the benefit of being in green.
I disagree about duskwatch, found it excellent. What you don’t mention is that in exchange for being more expensive, the ability here is also *much* more impactful — Usher is good for converting mana gaps into minor board presence in the mid game, but it’s not a high impact card (which is fine for a 1 drop, to be clear). The upside here doesn’t come on line until later, but it’s actually capable of producing several meaningful bodies and converting board stalls or the topdeck phase of an attrition battle into a win. I think that will be price to be more valuable than Usher in cases where your 1 drop lives into or is topdeck Ed during the late game, and usher isn’t activated that much anyway in practice because you have better things to do with your mana until you reach the point of the game where they’re dead or this is better.
This only shines in late game board stalls, but even then I'd argue it's pretty slow and you'd generally rather be casting your other 3-4 drops before even activating this ability. White also really has plenty of things to break boardstalls: Mother of Runes / Giver of Runes / Stoneforge Mystic for the appropriate equipment / Elspeth, Knight-Errant / Parallax Wave / any monarch or initiative card / etc. Savannah Lions want to be applying pressure, and this really can't do that until later in the game.
well yeah, of course you cast your other stuff first. Same as usher. If you’ve got something else to break a stall with great, but you won’t always. This applies pressure with the base body, just like all the other lions it’s slightly worse early in exchange for being much better late, solid coverage in functionality.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
I was excited about this until I looked at my white 1-drop section. I guess it's maybe better than Soldier of the Pantheon, but I like it less than the rest of 1-drops. (Champion of the Parish, Dauntless Bodyguard, Giver of Runes, Isamaru, Kytheon, Mardu Woe-Reaper, Skymarcher Aspirant, Student of Warfare, Usher of the Fallen)
Wanted to specify I found duskwatch recruiter underperformed in my cube relative to my experiences with it in standard.
This card's strength heavily depends on it's environment. In grindy matchups, where one deck doesn't go absurdly over the top it's actually a really powerful ability. In top deck wars, mana sinks like this can take over the game single handedly.
In traditional limited, I expect it to be one of the best white 1 drops ever.
In a fast, high powered vintage cube, I think an ability that is minor, but immediately impacts the battlefield is more importance than a expensive, mana ineffcient card advantage ability that draws you cards to your hand.
Regardless, it's a fine creature and I'm going to test it.
Happy to eat my words!
I think Frontier Explorer is underplayed. I prefer insurance against mana screw than mana flood.
This ability is sweet, definitely just bonus value. Could be better than Soldier of the Pantheon. But I think Dauntless Bodyguard is also better than this.
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3W: Look at top four of your library. You may reveal a creature card with mana value 3 or less from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on bottom in a random order.
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Its def a plus from Skymarcher Aspirant / Dragon Hunter, but I'm not too hype about this.
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Agreed. This would've been a 360 staple for me pre 2015, but I this is borderline for me at 540. As a mana sink, I don't think this is necessarily better than Usher of the Fallen / Student of Warfare.
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I think it's worse than both of those cards. Agreed with the sentiment.
I remember duskwatch recruiter underperforming for me, as the mana sink was too expensive to not effect the board. Sometimes it would take over games but most of the time it would be a 2 mana 2/2. A savannah lions base body is much more on curve , but this ability is much worse.
I'll likely test this over my worst savannah lions + upside card I have in my cube though. It could surprise.
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I second all that.
I've found the competitive shells for Duskwatch Recruiters are decks with a minimum of 3+ tempo positive - Reflector Mage, Grist, Solitude, Grief or decks with 3-4 fast mana or decks with 3-4 absurd fast mana - Aether Vial, Gaea's Cradle, Devoted Druid Combo etc.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Un-Spiracy Module - http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/63204
Utility Land Module - http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/53258
I like it better than most of the others, but there's no shortage.
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I generally agree with your Savnanah Lion sentiments, but I'd put Dauntless Bodyguard with Kytheon / Usher of the Fallen. My top 4 pure Savannah Lion variants (in no particular order) are Kytheon / Dauntless Bodyguard / Usher of the Fallen / Isamaru.
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Maybe at 540?
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I think Usher is much better than this. Usher's ability being only 2 mana means it can pressure the opponent much more than Recruitment Officer, which is what the aggro deck wants to be doing. For those that tested Duskwatch Recruiter back in the day, that ability wasn't too great. This is more expensive, can't hit any creature, and doesn't the benefit of being in green.
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I disagree about duskwatch, found it excellent. What you don’t mention is that in exchange for being more expensive, the ability here is also *much* more impactful — Usher is good for converting mana gaps into minor board presence in the mid game, but it’s not a high impact card (which is fine for a 1 drop, to be clear). The upside here doesn’t come on line until later, but it’s actually capable of producing several meaningful bodies and converting board stalls or the topdeck phase of an attrition battle into a win. I think that will be price to be more valuable than Usher in cases where your 1 drop lives into or is topdeck Ed during the late game, and usher isn’t activated that much anyway in practice because you have better things to do with your mana until you reach the point of the game where they’re dead or this is better.
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I will keep an idea on how often players are activating the ability though. It seems expensive enough for what it does, but it's repeatable late game value.
Might this see play outside of hard agro? I could see it being useful in something like aristocrats or stax where its a body that can draw you more bodies. If you are playing alot of cheap bodies you might even be able to top deck this and play the creature you got, in the late game obviously. I might be wrong but I think this goes in more decks than your average Savannah Lion.
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This only shines in late game board stalls, but even then I'd argue it's pretty slow and you'd generally rather be casting your other 3-4 drops before even activating this ability. White also really has plenty of things to break boardstalls: Mother of Runes / Giver of Runes / Stoneforge Mystic for the appropriate equipment / Elspeth, Knight-Errant / Parallax Wave / any monarch or initiative card / etc. Savannah Lions want to be applying pressure, and this really can't do that until later in the game.
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Yup. As cards have gotten more efficient, late game mana sinks for aggro have gotten less important, especially those that don't directly damage the opponent. I think this is probably on par with soldier of the pantheon, and its ability will be relevant about as often. The problem with this is when you are the aggro deck and you're activating this ability, you're probably in a bad spot anyway so the times where an ability like this gets you back in the game are incredibly rare. Especially with how narrow this is - you're spending 4 mana to find a creature that probably isn't relevant to the board on turn 4+ anyway, at least not on its own.
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well yeah, of course you cast your other stuff first. Same as usher. If you’ve got something else to break a stall with great, but you won’t always. This applies pressure with the base body, just like all the other lions it’s slightly worse early in exchange for being much better late, solid coverage in functionality.
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This card's strength heavily depends on it's environment. In grindy matchups, where one deck doesn't go absurdly over the top it's actually a really powerful ability. In top deck wars, mana sinks like this can take over the game single handedly.
In traditional limited, I expect it to be one of the best white 1 drops ever.
In a fast, high powered vintage cube, I think an ability that is minor, but immediately impacts the battlefield is more importance than a expensive, mana ineffcient card advantage ability that draws you cards to your hand.
Regardless, it's a fine creature and I'm going to test it.
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This ability is sweet, definitely just bonus value. Could be better than Soldier of the Pantheon. But I think Dauntless Bodyguard is also better than this.
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