So this is an interesting reanimation spell. Traditionally, the reanimation process is an A + B + C combo where you need a discard outlet, a reanimation spell, and the creature you're reanimating. The reason why Entomb is so powerful is because it's a cheap, instant speed option that turns the process into an A + B combo.
While Incarnation Technique is expensive at 5 mana, it also potentially turns the reanimation process into a one card combo AND can potentially score you two creatures. This makes it reminiscent of other one card combos like Selvala's Stampede which don't require you to have another specific card in your hand.
While copying it can make this opens up some risk by allowing your opponent to mill 5 / Exhume a creature, the fact that their copy resolves first means if they Exhume a Palace Jailer / Ravenous Chupacabra or something, your copies of Incarnation of Technique are still on the stack, so anything you hit off Incarnation Technique cannot be targeted by whatever your opponent is Exhuming.
At first I overlooked this card because I was too afraid of the drawback, but now realizing that my hits can't be targeted by Palace Jailer and friends, this has potential. In my experience, getting two hits with Eureka is often game over unless my opponent has a sweeper or had Palace Jailer / Oblivion Ring or something, but there's so much less risk and set up with this. Getting to 5 mana is a bummer, but that doesn't stop me from playing things like Through the Breach / Selvala's Stampede.
That is really interesting. I think that I'll test it over Liliana, Death's Majesty. The timing point is absolutely huge and most of my reanimator decks want to be playing a Jailer or Chup anyway. Definitely going to try it out. My one "concern" is that milling 10 is a lot and it makes Griselbrand (usually the best target) a slightly worse one.
I would agree with you that it is probably better than the cards you listed. I don't think this is 360 material, probably will make its way into some 450 cubes and solid at 540
I like that this can be played in both reanimate combo decks and in midrange value decks as well.
While there will be times where you might get burned by allowing opponents to copy it, by the time 5 mana comes around you should have a good idea of what kind of threats your opponents deck might have and decide if it's worth the risk so you should come out ahead more often than not.
I feel like Makeshift Mannequin is more situational because of the instant speed aspect but agreed on it being clearly worse than the two mana options. I think it probably ends up better than the other options but I'm not quite sure.
Actually question does this fast reanimate if the shuffler is milled in the 5 cards? I think it does but I can't find a ruling.
Man Liliana, Death's Majesty has been absolutely fantastic for us in a variety of decks, I don't think they necessarily have to compete for that same slot. With that said, this card does seem pretty good when compared to something like Show and Tell, seeing as most decks really don't have huge payouts to cheat into play given the opportunity if not specifically built around it like your own deck. I'm pretty sure you almost always copy this, which is also a great way to play around counterspells.
Yeah if you treat Death's Majesty as JUST a reanimation spell, this is better, but Death's Majesty is flexible too - it's reanimate when you want it and a token maker when you don't. I think on balance this is worse than her.
However, if I was still running Exhume I might be tempted to test this over it? There's a fair number of good 1-3 mana reanimate spells in cube now, so I think I'd want to try this as a more interesting variant on the theme. Milling 10 is real, and will almost certainly find you at least one good target, and as noted being able to hit cards with the shuffle clause is interesting too.
I'm lukewarm on this card. If you're not playing multiple 7+ mana fatties, you're simply not going to want this in your deck. So, how does this fare within the fatty cheating archetypes? In reanimator, while I think you'd be satisfied running this, it'll be the worst reanimate effect. Mill 5 is both not a reliable enough method of getting your reanimate target into the bin and a huge risk when giving your opponent a copy of this spell. Where I think the card will function best is giving non-black fatty cheating decks an extra way of getting their cheat targets onto the battlefield. Decks which have a whole lot of fatties, but few ways to bin them, are the perfect home for this card.
In the type of deck I just described, it'll be a blast to slam this card down and copy it with nothing in the bin. But I think the result will be less than stellar a good deal of the time. This is a card that only functions well in a narrow range of decks but isn't strong enough to pull me into those decks, so it's a pass for me.
I'm lukewarm on this card. If you're not playing multiple 7+ mana fatties, you're simply not going to want this in your deck. So, how does this fare within the fatty cheating archetypes?
You saying this actually has opened my eyes to the fact that this is very playable in a non-reanimator cheaty face deck that normally wouldn't play reanimation spells that can be played as a 5-cmc Selvala's Stampede. That really raises this in for me since black is often used as a splash for tutors, and I'm often playing looting effects like Dack Fayden / Prismari Command / Izzet Charm in those decks.
I made a list the other day of the 7 categories of fatty cheats:
- Reanimation
- Instant Speed Reanimation
- Hard Cast
- Artifact - Welder/ Tinker etc
- Sneak Attack/ Breach, Flash
- Natural Order
- Show and Tell/ Eureka/ Oath of Druids
What I like about this card is its strong in Hard Cast, Artifact, Sneak Attack, Natural Order, and Show and Tell Decks. I've been less happy about reanimator decks, given that it requires a 3 card combo unlike sneak attack, hard cast etc. and is harder to assemble, but its saving grace is its usually 1-2 turns faster.
I love to see redundancy added for all these decks.
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Worth testing in larger cubes.
5 mana is more than reanimation decks want to spend , as they often have to spend early turns setting up (not effecting battlefield).
but DOUBLE reanimation is such a powerful effect in conjunction with mill 10! that it should often be game winning WITHOUT support.
In the Sedgemoor Witch thread I mentioned swapping her in for Agadeem's Awakening, but we were also testing Hagra Mauling which has only been alright, so I could honestly see us making space to test this. It looks so versatile as a payoff in so many decks, even if it is a little slow. Assuming you get a creature off of each resolution of the effect, the card is completely card parity, so depending on your fatty density this could pretty easily get slotted into all kinds of decks that have otherwise no other constant discard/mill. Like I can imagine a couple scenarios that I might just throw this into my ramp or sneak attack deck if the splash is easy enough.
The more I keep thinking about this card the more I want to try it, can't wait to give it a spin
Agreed. The fact that it works with every type of fatty is just such an advantage and is usually a 1 card combo makes it worth trying out even in tight lists. It's expensive but it does everything on it's own. If you're black section is very focused you might not want this but I think this will end up pretty high on the generic good card power level.
After 2 test drafts I am expecting this to replace Liliana, Death's majesty in my list. It's been stellar. Liliana's ability to turn into a token maker provides a safer back up plan but in one gauntlet it ran into a white aggro deck and a blue control deck that just couldn't take punish it with of their copy from demonstrate. That is probably close to the high water mark (a deck that didn't have much in the way of EtB and a very creature light control deck) but it still impressed me.
The ability to get back Eldrazi titans is huge if you have a density of them.
I'm testing this at 450 unpowered. I think this is a very underrated card.
Being able to put this many cards in the graveyard and reanimate them and choose whether you do it once or twice and the opponent gets to do it just once and their copy resolves first negating any etb removal effects on their creatures seems well worth the cost.
Anybody tested this? I'm considering slotting this in over Living Death.
Its a playgroup thing IMO - Its one of those cards that gets better the worst your deck is. I find it gives your decks a safe enough floor.
It is a decent top end in storm, fatty cheat or even aristocrats/ persist all-in decks.
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Anybody tested this? I'm considering slotting this in over Living Death.
It's been doing well for me as expected. It's very strong in both reanimator and non-reanimator Cheaty Face shells (Oath of Druids / Sneak Attack / Show and Tell / etc). In my experience it really has been acting like a 5-cmc Selvala's Stampede.
The problem I've found with Fatty cheat deck is not all enablers work with all fatties (Oath, Polymorph, Welder, Natural Order, Reanimation, Sneak Attack etc.).
This will never be amazing, but works well with almost any fatty.
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This will never be amazing, but works well with almost any fatty.
I've had some pretty amazing experiences with this where I've gotten 14+ mana worth of creatures for only 5 mana. You should always be trading up when casting this spell in the right shell, and the blowout risk is much, much lower than something like Show and Tell since your opponent's copy resolves first.
I've had some pretty amazing experiences with this where I've gotten 14+ mana worth of creatures for only 5 mana. You should always be trading up when casting this spell in the right shell, and the blowout risk is much, much lower than something like Show and Tell since your opponent's copy resolves first.
I can second this. This card is very good and I don't consider it filler at all. It is very unique and cool to play with!
Still find this card to be criminally underrated. Getting to Mill 10 and double reanimate for 5 mana when you are playing the reanimator deck decides games.
Still find this card to be criminally underrated. Getting to Mill 10 and double reanimate for 5 mana when you are playing the reanimator deck decides games.
It does have a bit of the Show and Tell/ Eureka feel to as it can go horribly wrong, but I find it gives fatty decks sufficiency.
I don't think its a good Plan A, but its an incredible Plan B
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It does have a bit of the Show and Tell/ Eureka feel to as it can go horribly wrong, but I find it gives fatty decks sufficiency.
The blowout risk of Incarnation Technique is much, much lower than Show and Tell / Eureka. Because their copy resolves first, they can't use something like Palace Jailer whatever you're about to recur, or play an Oblivion Ring for free. It's only really a blowout if they have a more dangerous target than you (which in most matches they won't), or if you just completely whiff.
So this is an interesting reanimation spell. Traditionally, the reanimation process is an A + B + C combo where you need a discard outlet, a reanimation spell, and the creature you're reanimating. The reason why Entomb is so powerful is because it's a cheap, instant speed option that turns the process into an A + B combo.
While Incarnation Technique is expensive at 5 mana, it also potentially turns the reanimation process into a one card combo AND can potentially score you two creatures. This makes it reminiscent of other one card combos like Selvala's Stampede which don't require you to have another specific card in your hand.
While copying it can make this opens up some risk by allowing your opponent to mill 5 / Exhume a creature, the fact that their copy resolves first means if they Exhume a Palace Jailer / Ravenous Chupacabra or something, your copies of Incarnation of Technique are still on the stack, so anything you hit off Incarnation Technique cannot be targeted by whatever your opponent is Exhuming.
At first I overlooked this card because I was too afraid of the drawback, but now realizing that my hits can't be targeted by Palace Jailer and friends, this has potential. In my experience, getting two hits with Eureka is often game over unless my opponent has a sweeper or had Palace Jailer / Oblivion Ring or something, but there's so much less risk and set up with this. Getting to 5 mana is a bummer, but that doesn't stop me from playing things like Through the Breach / Selvala's Stampede.
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IMO, this is better than Makeshift Mannequin/Diabolic Servitude and maybe Liliana, Death's Majesty, but it is worse than Dance of the Dead/Exhume.
I like that this can be played in both reanimate combo decks and in midrange value decks as well.
While there will be times where you might get burned by allowing opponents to copy it, by the time 5 mana comes around you should have a good idea of what kind of threats your opponents deck might have and decide if it's worth the risk so you should come out ahead more often than not.
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/63569
I feel like Makeshift Mannequin is more situational because of the instant speed aspect but agreed on it being clearly worse than the two mana options. I think it probably ends up better than the other options but I'm not quite sure.
Actually question does this fast reanimate if the shuffler is milled in the 5 cards? I think it does but I can't find a ruling.
It's also good to mention that this can technically grab Eldrazi in case you support Shallow Grave/Corpse Dance/Goryo's Vengeance/Makeshift Mannequin Eldrazi combos in black..
However, if I was still running Exhume I might be tempted to test this over it? There's a fair number of good 1-3 mana reanimate spells in cube now, so I think I'd want to try this as a more interesting variant on the theme. Milling 10 is real, and will almost certainly find you at least one good target, and as noted being able to hit cards with the shuffle clause is interesting too.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
In the type of deck I just described, it'll be a blast to slam this card down and copy it with nothing in the bin. But I think the result will be less than stellar a good deal of the time. This is a card that only functions well in a narrow range of decks but isn't strong enough to pull me into those decks, so it's a pass for me.
540 Version: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/zza
You saying this actually has opened my eyes to the fact that this is very playable in a non-reanimator cheaty face deck that normally wouldn't play reanimation spells that can be played as a 5-cmc Selvala's Stampede. That really raises this in for me since black is often used as a splash for tutors, and I'm often playing looting effects like Dack Fayden / Prismari Command / Izzet Charm in those decks.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
- Reanimation
- Instant Speed Reanimation
- Hard Cast
- Artifact - Welder/ Tinker etc
- Sneak Attack/ Breach, Flash
- Natural Order
- Show and Tell/ Eureka/ Oath of Druids
What I like about this card is its strong in Hard Cast, Artifact, Sneak Attack, Natural Order, and Show and Tell Decks. I've been less happy about reanimator decks, given that it requires a 3 card combo unlike sneak attack, hard cast etc. and is harder to assemble, but its saving grace is its usually 1-2 turns faster.
I love to see redundancy added for all these decks.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
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5 mana is more than reanimation decks want to spend , as they often have to spend early turns setting up (not effecting battlefield).
but DOUBLE reanimation is such a powerful effect in conjunction with mill 10! that it should often be game winning WITHOUT support.
Think it'll be a miss, but some chance of a hit.
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The more I keep thinking about this card the more I want to try it, can't wait to give it a spin
After 2 test drafts I am expecting this to replace Liliana, Death's majesty in my list. It's been stellar. Liliana's ability to turn into a token maker provides a safer back up plan but in one gauntlet it ran into a white aggro deck and a blue control deck that just couldn't take punish it with of their copy from demonstrate. That is probably close to the high water mark (a deck that didn't have much in the way of EtB and a very creature light control deck) but it still impressed me.
The ability to get back Eldrazi titans is huge if you have a density of them.
Being able to put this many cards in the graveyard and reanimate them and choose whether you do it once or twice and the opponent gets to do it just once and their copy resolves first negating any etb removal effects on their creatures seems well worth the cost.
Its a playgroup thing IMO - Its one of those cards that gets better the worst your deck is. I find it gives your decks a safe enough floor.
It is a decent top end in storm, fatty cheat or even aristocrats/ persist all-in decks.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
It's been doing well for me as expected. It's very strong in both reanimator and non-reanimator Cheaty Face shells (Oath of Druids / Sneak Attack / Show and Tell / etc). In my experience it really has been acting like a 5-cmc Selvala's Stampede.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
This will never be amazing, but works well with almost any fatty.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I've had some pretty amazing experiences with this where I've gotten 14+ mana worth of creatures for only 5 mana. You should always be trading up when casting this spell in the right shell, and the blowout risk is much, much lower than something like Show and Tell since your opponent's copy resolves first.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
I can second this. This card is very good and I don't consider it filler at all. It is very unique and cool to play with!
It does have a bit of the Show and Tell/ Eureka feel to as it can go horribly wrong, but I find it gives fatty decks sufficiency.
I don't think its a good Plan A, but its an incredible Plan B
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
The blowout risk of Incarnation Technique is much, much lower than Show and Tell / Eureka. Because their copy resolves first, they can't use something like Palace Jailer whatever you're about to recur, or play an Oblivion Ring for free. It's only really a blowout if they have a more dangerous target than you (which in most matches they won't), or if you just completely whiff.
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