MTG Salvation

This looks like one of the better white sweepers for cube. Wrath the Board for 5 mana, get a free finisher later on. Love it.

I think this card looks pretty bad. For my adventure cards, I'd like at least one of the two halves (if not both) to be at least somewhat close to being good enough. Both of these halves are so far from being even remotely cubeable that I don't think the sum of its parts can save it. I have zero interest in playing this card in my cube. A slower unpowered battlecruiser type cube? ...maybe, but there's no chance for this to be good enough for my list.

Too bad too, because that art and frame is fantastic.

I had high hopes for mythic adventures, sigh

Like I said in the rumor mill thread. Attach any decent control finisher to a wrath, even a 5 mana one, in one card, and you have a very good card. Problem is, this is not a decent control finisher. Some guy posted a hypothetical card with a lightning strike adventure mode attached to an overcosted giant threat and said I would probably say that is bad too as if this is the same thing (Adventure mode strike attached to near-anything would be played for the strike alone.) His hypothetical reminded me why I love the cube forum....our card evaluation skills are SO MUCH better.

Edit: Also, this thread is missing the card title.

2nd Edit: This art makes me imagine an adventure style card with plow under as the adventure side....now that card would by the mythic I want in my life.

I think 5-mana Wrath effects are acceptable as long as they come with some form of value attached. Fumigate, for instance, has been decent here. A 5-mana Wrath that allows you to follow up with a good finisher later seems like good value, but this is not the finisher we were looking for. 7-mana 7/7 vigilance feels like draft chaff rather than a powerful Mythic. This card is very disappointing.

I think this is better than most five-mana wraths, but most five mana wraths aren't really cube cards, and I think this falls a little below Fumigate. I'd play this card, but my format is much more forgiving than most.

Clearing the field to make way for the giant is nice, and this is harder to chump after a wrath. If they have overcommitted to the board, and don't topdeck anything, the giant will just kill them, but you can't expect that. After the wrath, this will be the only target for their removal.

I do think this card is very powerful, but not for typical cubes. I'd still be happy to add it.

For my adventure cards, I'd like at least one of the two halves (if not both) to be at least somewhat close to being good enough.

Wraths have a similar problem as one drop aggro dudes. Control needs a certain density of the effect in order to be a viable archetype. For most sizes above 360, there aren't enough 4 mana wraths to fill the need. Thus we need to run a certain number of 5 mana sweepers. For my 540, I want roughly 12 wraths to be available in any given 8 man pod with a high degree of certainty, so that I can support up to 3 control decks. This means I need like 22-25 wrath effects in my cube. I fill this out with stuff from Pyroclasm, all the way up to 5 mana white sweepers like Fumigate and Time Wipe. The 5 mana wraths are all worse than their 4 mana counterparts, but they are do serve the purpose. For cubes running stuff like Fumigate in their white section, this is an extremely attractive alternative. Once control successfully execute's it's gameplan, a giant stalk of broccoli could win the game. You don't need the finisher to be spicy, but you do need it at the right time. This card is best viewed as a Wrath effect with Aftermath as opposed to a split card.

A slower unpowered battlecruiser type cube? ...maybe

Gotta disagree with you on this one. My cube is extremely low to the grown and has very fast games. 5 mana wraths hold up just fine.

This sure seems worth a look at 720. For 3WW it's board wipe + draw a card, with that card being a big dumb idiot. But having that big dumb idiot attached to the card then provides some bonus value. Bounce or recur it to your hand and have your sweeper back? Yes please.

The obvious cards this leans on are Fumigate and Martial Coup. I'm kinda sorta interested in this over the Coup. It takes longer to get your creatures on the board after you sweep, but it's usable at < 7 mana in a way that Martial Coup isn't.

I agree that this probably misses the cut in anything smaller.

If there weren't any other cubable giants, maybe. But a 5-mana wrath that can't answer any of the M11 Titans looks pretty bad.

Quote from noshadowkick »

My cube is extremely low to the grown and has very fast games. 5 mana wraths hold up just fine.

This has been the exact opposite of my experience with them. None of the 5cc wraths have been close to good enough. So a bad one is even less appealing for us. I'm glad the card looks appealing to you, but there's no way it'll work out for my group.

FWIW, I think Fumigate is way better than this card, and that card wasn't good for us either.

Agreed that Fumigate is better. Also....

I just custom-carded the card I wanted this to be and I'm going to share it here.

Earth-Cloaked Giant 5G
Creature - Giant (M)
Unroot 3GG
Sorcery - Adventure: Put two target lands on top of their owner’s library.
Trample, Protection from Lands.
6/6

That's a green finisher. Plow Under into a big beater that laughs at your opponents Maze of Ith...Trample + Pro-Land isn't mindblowingly good, but is is flavorful and much better than just Vigilance. Plow Under doesn't quite make it into my cube, but this would in a heartbeat.

Fair enough, our environments and cube design goals are so different that I'm not surprised we are having different results.

Quote from BlackWaltz3 »

Agreed that Fumigate is better. Also....

I just custom-carded the card I wanted this to be and I'm going to share it here.

Earth-Cloaked Giant 5G
Creature - Giant (M)
Unroot 3GG
Sorcery - Adventure: Put two target lands on top of their owner’s library.
Trample, Protection from Lands.
6/6

That's a green finisher. Plow Under into a big beater that laughs at your opponents Maze of Ith...Trample + Pro-Land isn't mindblowingly good, but is is flavorful and much better than just Vigilance. Plow Under doesn't quite make it into my cube, but this would in a heartbeat.

If you think you're ever getting a strictly better Plow Under, you're in for disappointment. I could see it maybe happening if Unroot cost 3 or 4 and only hit one land.

I have to wonder how often this will miss giants. I'm personally only playing 6 in my 1600, so I think I'm pretty safe.

Meh, I tend to be disappointed and that's probably a good thing as I am very greedy....lol. I probably do need to nerf this a bit, but I think Plow Under is very improvable still.

Plow Under is a disgustingly powerful Magic card that I consider to be a 360 staple, and I don't think a strictly better one is ever in the cards for us.

I literally had a timed bet for the wtwlf "Plow Under is amazing" post...I bet 4 minutes. You overperformed once again =P

I like fumigate more than this.

The way most cubes are structured, there's generally a plethora of extremly powerful expensive cards that can stabilize the game and win by itself. The goal of a wrath is primarily survival.

The life gain from fumigate is better at keeping you alive long enough to play a big threat... that's more important than drawing an extremely overcosted card. Like, the giant part alone is 3-4 colorless mana overcosted for cube heh.

It's certainly not a bad card, and it's certainly close to fumigate. 5 mana wraths are fine in conjunction with a plan that interacts in the early turns.

You posted your original design 43 minutes ago. I did pretty good this time.

As an aside, you should be cubing Plow Under.

This set has to be my favorite from an aesthetic point of view, but the card doesn't get there. Fumigate is better and probably a few others of the 5 drops. And if settle the wreckage isn't slotted in right after the standard 4 mana ones

I think this is a Standard card, not a Cube card.

As a B-Lister, this is actually one of the best wraths out there for exactly the same reasons it doesn't work in traditional cube: it has that mix of extremely powerful and completely fair that I'm always looking for. A wrath that draws you a fatty is awesome, but both sides needed to be undercosted to make it a traditional cube card.

As is, the card is actually costed really fairly. I wouldn't play this if it were 1WWW for the wrath and 3WW for a 7/7 vigilance-- I don't play cards that are that undercosted. This is aactually one of my favorite wraths (without any testing of course) for a format like mine, and might actually fall third for my favorite after #1: Catastrophe and #2: Wrath of God/ Day of Judgment. Damnation doesn't count because it's too expensive.

This may be one of those few mythics that I actually go out of my way to acquire.