1RG
Enchantment
Creature spells you control can't be countered.
Nontoken creatures you control have riot.
Is it just me or this card absolutely crazy? Fires of Yavimaya saw play in cubes for a long time, and not only can this card give your (nontoken) team haste, but it is Muzzios preparations for your entire deck??? That fits into literally any GR archetype - midrange benefits the most, but also aggro, and even control (RUG can now have an infinite uncounterable Glen Elendra, Kitchen Finks etc).
Am I missing something or am I justified in slamming this directly into my Gruul section?
Non-token is a huge dealbreaker and even if it was all creatures, I’m not sure it’d be good enough. Sarkhan being able to grant haste and pump all creatures on board is huge. This does nothing for pre-existing creatures.
Non-token is a huge dealbreaker and even if it was all creatures, I’m not sure it’d be good enough. Sarkhan being able to grant haste and pump all creatures on board is huge. This does nothing for pre-existing creatures.
This seems like a significant mis-evaluation to me.
Being non-token isn't a dealbreaker to me at all, generally the things that I want to have haste in those colors are actual cards. On turn three against control they are screwed if they don't have enchantment removal, as now all the cards that normally feel too vulnerable against control due to countermagic/sweepers gain a ton of value. Thragtusk and Polukranos get way better against a control player when they are uncounterable and have haste!
Comparing it to Sarkhan doesn't feel fair to me. They are so different from each other, Sarkhan costs 4 and requires a pre-existing board for the +1 to be threatening. Sarkhan doesn't give you muzzio's prep on your entire deck, or make those cards uncounterable. This effect can't be understated, all of your cards like Hangarback/Walking Ballista/Triskelion coming in with a counter is such a huge deal. Not to mention (uncounterable) infinite combos with persist creatures.
Non-token is a huge dealbreaker and even if it was all creatures, I’m not sure it’d be good enough. Sarkhan being able to grant haste and pump all creatures on board is huge. This does nothing for pre-existing creatures.
This seems like a significant mis-evaluation to me.
Being non-token isn't a dealbreaker to me at all, generally the things that I want to have haste in those colors are actual cards. On turn three against control they are screwed if they don't have enchantment removal, as now all the cards that normally feel too vulnerable against control due to countermagic/sweepers gain a ton of value. Thragtusk and Polukranos get way better against a control player when they are uncounterable and have haste!
Comparing it to Sarkhan doesn't feel fair to me. They are so different from each other, Sarkhan costs 4 and requires a pre-existing board for the +1 to be threatening. Sarkhan doesn't give you muzzio's prep on your entire deck, or make those cards uncounterable. This effect can't be understated, all of your cards like Hangarback/Walking Ballista/Triskelion coming in with a counter is such a huge deal. Not to mention (uncounterable) infinite combos with persist creatures.
Sarkhan needing a pre-existing board to make use of his +1 ability is much better than this enchantment’s awful floor because it does nothing the turn you cast it unless you can play another creature spell. Sarkhan at least can pump a pre-existing board, threaten, or build up to its very fast ultimate. Doing nothing for tokens / pre-existing creatures makes this lose out on so much potential damage. [/quote]
FWIW I think I like this more than Fires of Yavimaya, which is still in my cube along with Sarkhan. But I should have cut Fires years ago and I don't want to replace it with a slightly better version, I want to get rid of it entirely haha.
I'm pretty torn on this one. I've wanted a Fires effect for a while, but none have been good enough and I'm not sure this one gets there. I like that it can go infinite with persist creatures and a sac outlet (especially since I support aristocrats and still play Redcap). The non-token clause is a little brutal, as one of the awesome things fires effects can do in cube is granting haste to cards like Najeela and Hanweir Garrison.
I'll likely test this as GR isn't too tight, but my gut says this is just shy of good enough.
Our RG decks typically want to play tokens with this kind of effect. Otherwise, it's cheating out stuff that doesn't really need haste (because it already has haste) or a +1/+1 counter (because it's already humongous). I'll stick with Sarkhan Vol and Lightning Greaves, and would probably sooner go back to Fires of Yavimaya than include this.
This card is good, but it seems more of a sidestep than a strict upgrade to Fires. It's an interesting alternative, though. The +1/+1 counters can be extremely relevant when haste isn't, and can be highly synergistic to boot. Counter protection is not always relevant, whereas the threat of activation on the +2/+2 always ends up mattering. But protection from counterspells is huge when it is relevant. The nontoken bit is where Fires has a real edge. Red and green are both quite fond of tokens.
I only want one fires effect, so I'm interested in the comparison (especially since this card should be easily obtainable to any budget player). I'm leaning towards Fires, but I could be swayed.
I'm pretty torn on this one. I've wanted a Fires effect for a while, but none have been good enough and I'm not sure this one gets there. I like that it can go infinite with persist creatures and a sac outlet (especially since I support aristocrats and still play Redcap). The non-token clause is a little brutal, as one of the awesome things fires effects can do in cube is granting haste to cards like Najeela and Hanweir Garrison.
I'll likely test this as GR isn't too tight, but my gut says this is just shy of good enough.
I feel (basically) exactly the same way... I would love a cubeable fires. Think this is better, but fires is far away from being good enough imo.
I did miss the infinite combo when I first looked at it. Sweet if cube has the right pieces.
Just nit picking , but Najeela and hanweir aren’t good examples because the tokens get haste from the creature. (Unless you were thinking of +1/+1 counters). Deranged hermit was one of the more powerful fires payoff, which does nothing with this card.
One large advantage this card has is, it makes all the hasty red threats bigger. That was one of my more common complaints of fires in cube, all the red 4/5 CMC had haste anyways!
I'm not convinced this is a better effect than Sarkhan Vol or even Fires of Yavimaya as a Fires effect for the cube. Not benefiting tokens hurts a lot, and it has no impact on your existing board.
I'm not convinced this is a better effect than Sarkhan Vol or even Fires of Yavimaya as a Fires effect for the cube. Not benefiting tokens hurts a lot, and it has no impact on your existing board.
This. Drawing it after you've dumped your hand is too much of a floor to overcome. It literally had zero impact on creatures already on the battlefield.
I'm pretty torn on this one. I've wanted a Fires effect for a while, but none have been good enough and I'm not sure this one gets there. I like that it can go infinite with persist creatures and a sac outlet (especially since I support aristocrats and still play Redcap). The non-token clause is a little brutal, as one of the awesome things fires effects can do in cube is granting haste to cards like Najeela and Hanweir Garrison.
I'll likely test this as GR isn't too tight, but my gut says this is just shy of good enough.
I feel (basically) exactly the same way... I would love a cubeable fires. Think this is better, but fires is far away from being good enough imo.
I did miss the infinite combo when I first looked at it. Sweet if cube has the right pieces.
Just nit picking , but Najeela and hanweir aren’t good examples because the tokens get haste from the creature. (Unless you were thinking of +1/+1 counters). Deranged hermit was one of the more powerful fires payoff, which does nothing with this card.
One large advantage this card has is, it makes all the hasty red threats bigger. That was one of my more common complaints of fires in cube, all the red 4/5 CMC had haste anyways!
Yes, I was talking about the tokens not getting bigger. Most cards that generate tokens generate multiple, and having them get counters would give this card big game IMO.
I understand that this card, like fires is indeed a setup card that does not impact the current board (unless you are trying to cast a sorcery speed worse giant growth for 1RG I guess).
That being said, I want to be setting up with this card vs. fires. It guarantees that all my creatures resolve, and gives me flexibility. The +1/+1 counter is such a huge deal. It neuters the Fires interaction with Deranged Hermit, yes, but almost everything else is strictly better since you can counter it up if it doesn't need haste.
I'll be testing this in Huntmaster of the Fells's spot, but I'm not sure if it will stick. I think as a fair card just granting creatures Riot, it doesn't look good enough for the spot. But the combo potential of it does have me interested. I'm already supporting Sun Titan + Saffi Eriksdotter + Goblin Bombardment combo, so this lets me add some redundancy to that with Rhythm of the Wild + Kitchen Finks + Goblin Bombardment. I think if the fair side of the card plays better than it looks, it'll stick. Even if its a little worse than Huntmaster. But not being able to put +1/+1 counters on Rabblemaster and friends' tokens hurts.
What do you think of this card Rhythm of the Wild?
In my view, with a decent sac outlet this sets infinite persist combos free. Also i love that this card seem stricty better than Fires of Yavimaya thanks to its flexibility. And in cubes with high number in counterspells this card can nerf control decks heavily.
If the cube has a +1/+1 -counter theme, it is also beneficial. Artifacts like Arcound Ravager with modular benefit from it. The card does not care where the creature is entering from. it fits so many strategies, some more some less, that i deem this card good enough for cube, even powered cube
I think most R/G aggro decks aren't playing many tokens, and a lot of my red tokens already have haste. Legion Warboss, and Goblin Rabblemaster, etc.
I mean, fine, but even assuming we're willing enough to say that riot is enough better than +2/+2 once for it to be strictly better, not giving tokens haste is a real thing in RG, especially with how many G PW's and creatures make tokens.
Most cubes run Avenger, and then maybe Hornet Queen or Deranged Hermit in green. I feel like the R/G deck that runs fires is lower to the ground.
In control match-ups, this will make all your creatures hit the board, you can put counters on them to avoid damaged based removal, or go hasty to end the game quickly. This card feels really flexible. I am certainly going to play test it.
1RG
Enchantment
Creature spells you control can't be countered.
Nontoken creatures you control have riot.
Is it just me or this card absolutely crazy? Fires of Yavimaya saw play in cubes for a long time, and not only can this card give your (nontoken) team haste, but it is Muzzios preparations for your entire deck??? That fits into literally any GR archetype - midrange benefits the most, but also aggro, and even control (RUG can now have an infinite uncounterable Glen Elendra, Kitchen Finks etc).
Am I missing something or am I justified in slamming this directly into my Gruul section?
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This seems like a significant mis-evaluation to me.
Being non-token isn't a dealbreaker to me at all, generally the things that I want to have haste in those colors are actual cards. On turn three against control they are screwed if they don't have enchantment removal, as now all the cards that normally feel too vulnerable against control due to countermagic/sweepers gain a ton of value. Thragtusk and Polukranos get way better against a control player when they are uncounterable and have haste!
Comparing it to Sarkhan doesn't feel fair to me. They are so different from each other, Sarkhan costs 4 and requires a pre-existing board for the +1 to be threatening. Sarkhan doesn't give you muzzio's prep on your entire deck, or make those cards uncounterable. This effect can't be understated, all of your cards like Hangarback/Walking Ballista/Triskelion coming in with a counter is such a huge deal. Not to mention (uncounterable) infinite combos with persist creatures.
Sarkhan needing a pre-existing board to make use of his +1 ability is much better than this enchantment’s awful floor because it does nothing the turn you cast it unless you can play another creature spell. Sarkhan at least can pump a pre-existing board, threaten, or build up to its very fast ultimate. Doing nothing for tokens / pre-existing creatures makes this lose out on so much potential damage. [/quote]
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[180 classic cube]
I'll likely test this as GR isn't too tight, but my gut says this is just shy of good enough.
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This card is good, but it seems more of a sidestep than a strict upgrade to Fires. It's an interesting alternative, though. The +1/+1 counters can be extremely relevant when haste isn't, and can be highly synergistic to boot. Counter protection is not always relevant, whereas the threat of activation on the +2/+2 always ends up mattering. But protection from counterspells is huge when it is relevant. The nontoken bit is where Fires has a real edge. Red and green are both quite fond of tokens.
I only want one fires effect, so I'm interested in the comparison (especially since this card should be easily obtainable to any budget player). I'm leaning towards Fires, but I could be swayed.
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I feel (basically) exactly the same way... I would love a cubeable fires. Think this is better, but fires is far away from being good enough imo.
I did miss the infinite combo when I first looked at it. Sweet if cube has the right pieces.
Just nit picking , but Najeela and hanweir aren’t good examples because the tokens get haste from the creature. (Unless you were thinking of +1/+1 counters). Deranged hermit was one of the more powerful fires payoff, which does nothing with this card.
One large advantage this card has is, it makes all the hasty red threats bigger. That was one of my more common complaints of fires in cube, all the red 4/5 CMC had haste anyways!
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Yes, I was talking about the tokens not getting bigger. Most cards that generate tokens generate multiple, and having them get counters would give this card big game IMO.
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That being said, I want to be setting up with this card vs. fires. It guarantees that all my creatures resolve, and gives me flexibility. The +1/+1 counter is such a huge deal. It neuters the Fires interaction with Deranged Hermit, yes, but almost everything else is strictly better since you can counter it up if it doesn't need haste.
Creatures Spells can’t be countered.
Nontoken creatures you control have riot.
https://scryfall.com/card/rna/201/rhythm-of-the-wild
Think this is strictly better than Fire of Yavimaya?
https://scryfall.com/card/pca/92/fires-of-yavimaya
This is absolutely a niche cubeable card.
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[180 classic cube]
In my view, with a decent sac outlet this sets infinite persist combos free. Also i love that this card seem stricty better than Fires of Yavimaya thanks to its flexibility. And in cubes with high number in counterspells this card can nerf control decks heavily.
If the cube has a +1/+1 -counter theme, it is also beneficial. Artifacts like Arcound Ravager with modular benefit from it. The card does not care where the creature is entering from. it fits so many strategies, some more some less, that i deem this card good enough for cube, even powered cube
I mean, fine, but even assuming we're willing enough to say that riot is enough better than +2/+2 once for it to be strictly better, not giving tokens haste is a real thing in RG, especially with how many G PW's and creatures make tokens.
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In control match-ups, this will make all your creatures hit the board, you can put counters on them to avoid damaged based removal, or go hasty to end the game quickly. This card feels really flexible. I am certainly going to play test it.