MTG Salvation

You can't deny this card is pushed. Hexproof on your turn is a relevant upside, and both modes are impressive for three mana. I'm personally not interested in this (it feels like a random beater), but I think it deserves a thread.

How do you guys feel about your Gruul sections? Looking over mine, it's actually one of my stronger guilds. So how strong is Gruul?

If anyone is running Boggart Ram-Gang or Fanatic of Xenagos, this one looks like a viable replacement.

This one is kind of hard to evaluate in a cube context. Obviously you’re not playing this if RG aggro isn’t on your radar to some extent, but most of the historically successful cards in this role are hybrid (Tattermunge, Ram-Gang, Solifuge), which gives them the flexibility to work as filler in a great variety of aggro decks. Even a very powerful card like Atarka’s Command rarely gets cubed due to lack of flexibility, and I fear that this may meet the same fate.

It is quite pushed and very annoying to deal with. Any deck that can’t put sufficient P/T in front of it is going to have to take some licks and/or spend premium removal, likely in an inconvenient way. But ultimately, it’s just a raw beatstick. It’s a card meant to throw your opponent’s removal curve off just enough to sneak through the win, and that’s a niche that will play better in constructed.

A pushed random beater is accurate...

The main things that pique my interest in addition to it's beat down potential , is the ability for the card to play defense in creature matchups.
Plus gruul is one of the weaker guilds.

Unsure if I'll test. I'm not excited by it, despite it being one of the more "powerful" gruul options.

This is a good stat monster, but I don't think I want to dedicate a gold slot to a random 3cc beater.

Not supporting green aggro, Gruul here is mostly ramp, midrange, super ramp or cheat (Sneak Attack and friends). A Gruul card can also earn a slot from being good enough to splash for in a red based aggro deck (Bloodbraid Elf does sometimes). Gruul Spellbreaker isn't enough stronger than the mono red options to warrant a slot for us.
Under the conditions listed above, Gruul is one of the shallower and weaker guilds.

The only reason I’m considering this is to deal with the cramping of bloosbraid elf and hunt master of the fells

Gruul easily has some of the best multicolored cards in cube. I can’t imagine this being better than any of those that we already have.

If only Boros, Simic and Dimir got the same treatment.

Really? I think Gruul is pretty weak. And outside of Simic, it's the guild that needs the most help. Boros and Dimir are both stacked, IMO.

Izzet and Simic are in a worse position, but after them Gruul is the weakest

Quote from Metamind »

Izzet and Simic are in a worse position, but after them Gruul is the weakest

Eh.. I mean outside of dack fayden, izzet isn't special, but when you have the strongest MC spell by a lot and a handful of average/solid cards, I have trouble calling it weaker than a guild with nothing exceptional. Gruul is slightly deeper for huge cubes.

I think we all agree simic is dead last though

I actually like Izzet.

Quote from LucidVision »

Eh.. I mean outside of dack fayden, izzet isn't special, but when you have the strongest MC spell by a lot and a handful of average/solid cards, I have trouble calling it weaker than a guild with nothing exceptional. Gruul is slightly deeper for huge cubes.

I think we all agree simic is dead last though

Well thank god they made the guild leader so strong this time around!

Oh wait.....

I think Gruul's problem (if you can call it a problem) is that it has a couple of staples in Bloodbraid Elf and Dragonlord Atarka, but the rest is basically filled with fine four drop planeswalkers. I'm running Huntmaster and Ancient Grudge as my numbers 3 and 4 in cube. I'd love to have at least one more really good staple level Gruul card that doesn't just feel like decent filler. And preferably, it won't be a four drop.

Really? I think Gruul is incredible, and has easily some of the best multicolored cards:

Bloodbraid
Atarka
Orcish Limberjack
Huntmaster
Rampager
Xenagos
Ancient Grudge if in powered

I can’t iamgine any scenario or size where Gruul isn’t exceptional.

Dack is great, but after him there’s a pretty steep drop-off in power level if you need to hit 3 or 4 playables in your Izzet section.

I think Izzet is both deeper and better than Gruul. Gruul needs some serious help from the new set, as does Simic. Every other guild is doing quite well.

I love Bloodbraid and Atarka. I wouldn't mind replacing Sarkhan Vol with a 2-3 drop creature. I'd love one that gives you a choice of ETB Fire Imp or Viridian Shaman. That would be awesome.

Edit: Or a Viridian Shaman with Riot.

Cheers,
rant

Agree to disagree I guess. Either way, this card is definitely sweet for standard, but I can’t imagine this making it into any cubes below like 700 cards as there isn’t a constant need to play around Settle the Wreckage.

Agreed on that front. This creature seems better suited for constructed.

As someone still running Kird Ape (because none of the marginally better gruul options remotely excite me) I'm really hoping for something great from this set.

I know this is controversial, but I don't love bloodbraid elf for cube. It's certainly a good card, but I mostly keep it in for it's iconic value and lack of better alternatives. For me atarka is #1.

Bloodbraid's ceiling is quite high, but it's uncommon I find a deck that reaches that ceiling. Gr decks have frequently so many underwhelming targets (and some complete blanks), and Rg tends to have an abundance of good 4 drops in MonoR that are on par with bloodbraid in a purely agressive strategy.

Bloodbraid excels in agro-midrange value strategies, as a card that guarntees a 2+ for 1 AND puts on pressure... but those are pretty rare in cube compared to constructed... and in the cube variants of those decks, deck building concessions often have to be made (Mox diamonds, X spells etc).

Fully embracing the thread derail!

Yea Atarka is hands down, 100% #1, but bloodbraid is great in cube the same way it has been for standard, legacy, and modern: as the ultimate midrange beater. It’s both great value, fast pressure, and the best PW killer for its colors (probably third overall, just behind Fractured Identity and Teferi unless I’m forgetting something). Haste is an incredible ability, and even in powered, that cascade is usually brutal. It’s great vs aggro for the many bodies it produces, its great vs control and midrange for generating value and surprise-killing walkers, and great vs combo for digging deeper for any kind of disruption you might be packing and applying quick pressure. It’s a card I like so much I have mine in foil, and find myself trying to splash for it more than I probably should.

Atarka is a great ramp, Reanimator, Natural Order and Show and Tell/eureka/Sneak Attack target. Card is good in both fair and unfair decks, and it’s versatility solidifies it’s place at #1 for me, but bloodbraid is still sweet imo and gives green midrange that aggression that it often needs to kill combo and control decks in time. Love em both to death.