Wildfire tech that could save my x/4 creatures? Yes please. I hate when I WF or BoX and an active walker takes the board. I'd rather have two dead pw in my hand and draw 2 a turn, than lose to someone else's pw.
That's very situational / expensive tech just to save some creatures : /
My big issue with The Immortal Sun (besides the whole planeswalker thing being symmetrical) is that it's too expensive for a jack of all trades / master of none type card. It's stuck in an awkward place between Gilded Lotus / Hedron Archive / Memory Jar / Thran Dynamo, all which are cheaper and are more focused on what they're doing.
I mean, the effect is certainly powerful. It's just that the range of decks that can use it is really narrow. It has to be a deck that can reliably cast 6cc cards, that has a reasonable number of creatures to cast and isn't running planeswalkers. Probably a bomb in creature-heavy green midrange decks, but I think the other decks that could potentially play it will either get hosed by the 'walker hate, cast too few spells to take advantage of the discount bonus, or have too few creatures to take advantage of the anthem effect.
But in the few decks that can actually utilize all of the abilities, it'll be a really strong card.
I don't understand everyone who's down on this card because of the Planeswalker clause. It's a build around card. I think it's important as cubists to understand cards won't always fit our playstyle(s). I do my best to support as many playstles as possible and I will definitely be testing this card. It helps out creature based decks, or at least provides them with another option. Just because you love Planeswalkers doeesn't mean everyone does. And I feel like I often hear experienced cube players say they don't like to run "fair" creature based decks. This card is a step in the right direction IMO. Beyond that, it helps out other archetypes when you ramp this out.
That all said, part of the beauty of cubing (and MTG in general) is that players don't always see eye to eye. When I first saw this, I immediately thought that it's an auto-include in my 360 unpowered. Maybe I'll agree with the majority of you down the road, but not until I test this thoroughly.
I understand that it's a build-around card, but that particular clause makes it hard to build around in the shells that can typically afford to play a 6cc utility card. With the exception of a creature-heavy green ramp deck, where it'll be quite good. But as you say, it can be a payoff card for more "fair" creature-based decks. So if that's a shell you want to try and promote, this card fits the bill. I can't imagine being able to find room in a small cube for a card that has such a limited application, but there might be some cubes that can shoehorn it in for testing. My list just won't be one of 'em.
I don't understand everyone who's down on this card because of the Planeswalker clause. It's a build around card. I think it's important as cubists to understand cards won't always fit our playstyle(s). I do my best to support as many playstles as possible and I will definitely be testing this card. It helps out creature based decks, or at least provides them with another option. Just because you love Planeswalkers doeesn't mean everyone does. And I feel like I often hear experienced cube players say they don't like to run "fair" creature based decks. This card is a step in the right direction IMO. Beyond that, it helps out other archetypes when you ramp this out.
That all said, part of the beauty of cubing (and MTG in general) is that players don't always see eye to eye. When I first saw this, I immediately thought that it's an auto-include in my 360 unpowered. Maybe I'll agree with the majority of you down the road, but not until I test this thoroughly.
Card type isn't the same thing as playstyle or deck archetype.
If you're in the market for a Staff of Nin / Mirari's Wake type card like this, some of the best things you can take are... planeswalkers, at 4-5-6cmc.
"Build arounds" don't really work without redundancy. Barring the 2% of the time that your opponent is playing like 7-8 planewaslkers of their own, you're better off drafting and using your OWN rather than trying to hate them out with Sun.
I don't understand everyone who's down on this card because of the Planeswalker clause. It's a build around card. I think it's important as cubists to understand cards won't always fit our playstyle(s).
I want my build-arounds to provide me a solid payoff for building around it. The Immortal Sun doesn't incentivize me to not play planeswalkers, the payoff just isn't there.
I actually really like Staff of Nin, it's way more clean and elegant than this card... which sure has a lot of text. I like build-around cards but this one also doesn't excite me in that way, unlike say Birthing Pod or Oath of Druids.
"Build arounds" don't really work without redundancy. Barring the 2% of the time that your opponent is playing like 7-8 planewaslkers of their own, you're better off drafting and using your OWN rather than trying to hate them out with Sun.
What do you mean when you say build arounds don't work without redundancy? Do you mean you need multiple copies of an effect for it to be reliable? Upheaval decks disagree. Balance is also a card. And many cubes only run the archetype namesakes Armageddon and Wildfire and not their functional equivalents, Ravages of War and Burning of Xinye.
Well, build-arounds need to be ...worth building around. I'd wager that most of the time my deck would be better off running its own planeswalkers than running this card and trying to make it asymmetrical.
"Build arounds" don't really work without redundancy. Barring the 2% of the time that your opponent is playing like 7-8 planewaslkers of their own, you're better off drafting and using your OWN rather than trying to hate them out with Sun.
What do you mean when you say build arounds don't work without redundancy? Do you mean you need multiple copies of an effect for it to be reliable? Upheaval decks disagree. Balance is also a card. And many cubes only run the archetype namesakes Armageddon and Wildfire and not their functional equivalents, Ravages of War and Burning of Xinye.
Redundancy doesn't mean getting 100% the same thing, but cards that pay you off for the same setup costs. When you ramp with a bunch of signets, you can either cast an early Consecrated Sphinx, or get to 9-10 mana and cast Upheaval. Hell, if you're U/R, Wildfire also works as a payoff.
Here, you want to cut planeswalkers for your deck... to the benefit of one card and one card only.
Like, you're always going to be better off having:
Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Nahiri, the Harbinger
Some mediocre 4-5 drop (Dark Dwellers? Whatever)
than
Immortal Sun
Dark Dwellers
Something even worse than Dark Dwellers
I would have tried this if the first ability only affected your opponents' planeswalkers. The other three abilities all are one-sided beneficial for you, so why is the first one symmetrical? (Probably for balance reasons / standard concerns... but I am still angry about this.)
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That's very situational / expensive tech just to save some creatures : /
My big issue with The Immortal Sun (besides the whole planeswalker thing being symmetrical) is that it's too expensive for a jack of all trades / master of none type card. It's stuck in an awkward place between Gilded Lotus / Hedron Archive / Memory Jar / Thran Dynamo, all which are cheaper and are more focused on what they're doing.
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Cube Tutor: Here
Utility Lands: Here
But in the few decks that can actually utilize all of the abilities, it'll be a really strong card.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
That all said, part of the beauty of cubing (and MTG in general) is that players don't always see eye to eye. When I first saw this, I immediately thought that it's an auto-include in my 360 unpowered. Maybe I'll agree with the majority of you down the road, but not until I test this thoroughly.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Card type isn't the same thing as playstyle or deck archetype.
If you're in the market for a Staff of Nin / Mirari's Wake type card like this, some of the best things you can take are... planeswalkers, at 4-5-6cmc.
"Build arounds" don't really work without redundancy. Barring the 2% of the time that your opponent is playing like 7-8 planewaslkers of their own, you're better off drafting and using your OWN rather than trying to hate them out with Sun.
I want my build-arounds to provide me a solid payoff for building around it. The Immortal Sun doesn't incentivize me to not play planeswalkers, the payoff just isn't there.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
What do you mean when you say build arounds don't work without redundancy? Do you mean you need multiple copies of an effect for it to be reliable? Upheaval decks disagree. Balance is also a card. And many cubes only run the archetype namesakes Armageddon and Wildfire and not their functional equivalents, Ravages of War and Burning of Xinye.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Redundancy doesn't mean getting 100% the same thing, but cards that pay you off for the same setup costs. When you ramp with a bunch of signets, you can either cast an early Consecrated Sphinx, or get to 9-10 mana and cast Upheaval. Hell, if you're U/R, Wildfire also works as a payoff.
Here, you want to cut planeswalkers for your deck... to the benefit of one card and one card only.
Like, you're always going to be better off having:
Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Nahiri, the Harbinger
Some mediocre 4-5 drop (Dark Dwellers? Whatever)
than
Immortal Sun
Dark Dwellers
Something even worse than Dark Dwellers
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG