Seems good for tokens support, and at least so far the best option for getting one of these into my cube. I'm not sure if I want to cut Kjeldoran Outpost for it, since it's not a direct replacement, but I'm also not sure I would want two of these. I'll have to figure that out but it's definitely in contention.
Really cool card, but I'm struggling to imagine where it finds a home in Cube!
Aggro decks have the easiest time triggering the transform, but the tokens are underwhelming there. Control decks are happy with the chump blockers and lifelink, but have the hardest time transforming... So maybe midrange? It could play decently in BW Pox strategies, but you still have to get through that 3-creature attack clause before it really pays off in any sense. Worst case scenario there it's two permanents for one mana, but that's not exactly a strong case for a cube slot. And I think given the difficulty of transforming, the 'create a token' effect wouldn't have been OP at 1W, which is a ton more palatable than 2W.
I dunno, maybe this has more applications than I'm considering (and it does seem legit when built around in other formats) but it looks relatively narrow to me.
Definitely not a replacement for Kjeldoran Outpost, which is, at its heart, a control card that wouldn't be interested in this, but I'm down for Legion's Landing. This is great ramp for a WX aggro or midrange deck and is a fantastic mana sink once you've blown your hand. I'm ready for this.
I would be very unexcited if it just flipped into a Legendary plains. As is, I'm still not super excited, but I could see this playing better than it looks.
You'll also randomly have turns that are this t1 and Kor Skyfisher t2 and that seems pretty good, but I'm not hinging my inclusion on that. Just something neat to point out.
I try to keep room for one or two fun-ofs in each color throughout the cube. I use the slot to give new cards a chance. This will replace Angel of Condemnation there. Probably won't stick but it seems cool. Lifelink is big, too. Does seem a bit schizophrenic but I like how it slots into Boros/Mardu token midrange with Purphoros. Tutorable with Enlightened Tutor and Thalia's Lancers, too.
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I feel like there will rarely be a point in decks that can flip this where I want to make a soldier for 4 mana instead of playing my spells. Not saying it won't happen, but I imagine there will be few spots where I can use the ability + continue to cast my cards, and it seems like almost every cube spell I'd rather play over activating this land in the decks that can flip this.
Braid of Fire is right. The appeal of Kjeldoran Outpost is the ability to increase your threat density in threat-light decks, without dedicating a spell slot to the effect. Historically, this kind of effect is better in creature-light control decks, but this card can't perform that function at all. So Outpost 2.0 this is not.
Doesn't seem like a card I can evaluate without playing it a few times. How often can I make the ramp matter? How often can a stax-type deck flip the card? How often will I use the token-making? How often will I regret having a 1/1 lifelink instead of some other 1-drop?
Even without flipping, it's two permanents for a stax deck. Aggro decks can use the flipside to add to the board without overexposing themselves to wrath effects. With an aggressive enough start, it's possible to turn 3 'geddon which sounds like a nonbo until you realize that you're resetting the game with 3 creatures on board.
It many not be a good Outpost substitute, but as a token support card, this looks solid enough. It gives you additional resources and a threat engine, and dedicated token shells will be able to transform it without a problem. Particularly useful in WG token/ramp decks (since it can ramp you, produce tokens and also be a mana sink) and in WB token/stax shells (since as lactamaeon says, it at least provides you 2 permanents to sacrifice to Smokestack, if not transforming into an engine that can pay your Braids/Stax/Abyss upkeep for you). Might be worth testing out if you play token decks in all your white color combinations.
I just don't know if the payoff is worth the effort, and how often this could wind up being a Trained Caracal.
Although Kjeldoran Outpost is the obvious parallel, the cards don't look to play similarly. Legion Loyalist has shown that Battalion is harder to pull off than you'd think. Still, I like the card
Unlike some of the other flip-lands, this gives you the full effect before flipping, and Trained Caracal may not be a cube card, but it's a solid enough base. This is somewhat recurrable, and lifelink plays well with aura synergies that also happen to love enchantments. Enchantress archetypes can't get enough playables in cube, and the token looks nice in Ethereal Armor.
It's not that tough to flip in aggro or token strategies, and if it does flip early, it's a rare source of white ramp, while offering an option to go wide, and something to do when you're out of gas. A little life doesn't hurt either. It's all clunky, and none of it's fabulous, but it offers interesting directions of play, and there's a lot going on. Many archetypes are side-case interested in this card, which is a good sign.
All told, I think it's a cool card that will narrowly miss most cubes. I don't expect it to be a star, but I expect it will perform well enough to earn a slot in my cube. I'm excited to try it.
What makes me curious is that flip Gideon doesn't tend to flip super often; I usually have to re-read what he does when he flips.
I'm probably going to at least test it out and it likely has the best chance of doing something in cube, but my general feeling is lukewarm. :/
Reading the Kytheon comparisons definitely cooled me off on this, but not only does the token not have to survive, you can even flip this the turn it comes into play, making it a significantly better topdeck. I really do with it could get flipped by something like Hero of Bladehold though...
It's an odd card, but the recent "2 for 1" one-drops (Oath of Nissa, Thraben Inspector) have both been good, and the prospect of "white ramp meets one-drop meets Outpost" is enticing enough to say this is testable.
What makes me curious is that flip Gideon doesn't tend to flip super often; I usually have to re-read what he does when he flips.
I'm probably going to at least test it out and it likely has the best chance of doing something in cube, but my general feeling is lukewarm. :/
Flip gideon has to survive through the combat where he attacks. The token doesn't have to survive at all.
If they have spot removal to stop the Gideon flip, they could do the same thing to stop Landing from flipping too. But the indestructible activation at least partially mitigates that problem.
It reminds me more of Windbrisk Heights, except I think the opportunity cost of playing a Trained Caracal is probably worse for you than playing an ETBT Plains in a lot of situations.
Also when you flip Gideon, you get a friggin Planeswalkers, when you flip this you get a plains pretty late into the game and more work to make that card anything above plains. This card seems really awful the more I think about it.
If they have spot removal to stop the Gideon flip, they could do the same thing to stop Landing from flipping too. But the indestructible activation at least partially mitigates that problem.
Except if they kill gids, he never flips, but if they kill a random duder this can still flip later. Plus this can flip the turn you play it, unlike gids (also unlike windbrisk heights which is otherwise a reasonable comparison). The condition seems *significantly* easier to meet.
The floor is too low on this card and the ceiling isn't high enough. After thinking about it for a day, you're probably better off playing Heliod / Oketra if you want a hard to deal with token generator.
If they have spot removal to stop the Gideon flip, they could do the same thing to stop Landing from flipping too. But the indestructible activation at least partially mitigates that problem.
Except if they kill gids, he never flips, but if they kill a random duder this can still flip later. Plus this can flip the turn you play it, unlike gids (also unlike windbrisk heights which is otherwise a reasonable comparison). The condition seems *significantly* easier to meet.
The real issue is that the reward is *significantly* worse. You flip Gideon, you get an awesome planeswalker. You flip this you get...a land. That needs to tap itself + 2W to make a 1/1. There are a number of If's involved with Gideon, but he has built in protection against those and the reward is amazing. There aren't as many If's involved with this card, but they still exist, and then you have what is a pretty underwhelming card for the type of deck that is looking to flip this.
That seems like an awful BCS. It requires everything going right i.e. creatures turns 1-3, no removal from opponent, an open board or an alpha that isn't going to leave you far behind. If that's the best this card can do, it seems far from cubeable.
Sacred Cat is probably better than this card, and if that's wrong then I really don't think they're that far from each other still.
That seems like an awful BCS. It requires everything going right i.e. creatures turns 1-3, no removal from opponent, an open board or an alpha that isn't going to leave you far behind. If that's the best this card can do, it seems far from cubeable.
I mean, that is probably the best the card can do, right?
You could also have this + 2 other 1 drops. But yeah, it seems like the best it can do and that seems worse than Sacred Cat.
Interesting tokens support card. I've always wanted a Kjeldoran Outpost (sp) variant and this is probably the closest thing to it. Thoughts?
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Aggro decks have the easiest time triggering the transform, but the tokens are underwhelming there. Control decks are happy with the chump blockers and lifelink, but have the hardest time transforming... So maybe midrange? It could play decently in BW Pox strategies, but you still have to get through that 3-creature attack clause before it really pays off in any sense. Worst case scenario there it's two permanents for one mana, but that's not exactly a strong case for a cube slot. And I think given the difficulty of transforming, the 'create a token' effect wouldn't have been OP at 1W, which is a ton more palatable than 2W.
I dunno, maybe this has more applications than I'm considering (and it does seem legit when built around in other formats) but it looks relatively narrow to me.
You'll also randomly have turns that are this t1 and Kor Skyfisher t2 and that seems pretty good, but I'm not hinging my inclusion on that. Just something neat to point out.
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Even without flipping, it's two permanents for a stax deck. Aggro decks can use the flipside to add to the board without overexposing themselves to wrath effects. With an aggressive enough start, it's possible to turn 3 'geddon which sounds like a nonbo until you realize that you're resetting the game with 3 creatures on board.
Looking forward to testing this out.
I just don't know if the payoff is worth the effort, and how often this could wind up being a Trained Caracal.
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I think I will try to test this one.
Unlike some of the other flip-lands, this gives you the full effect before flipping, and Trained Caracal may not be a cube card, but it's a solid enough base. This is somewhat recurrable, and lifelink plays well with aura synergies that also happen to love enchantments. Enchantress archetypes can't get enough playables in cube, and the token looks nice in Ethereal Armor.
It's not that tough to flip in aggro or token strategies, and if it does flip early, it's a rare source of white ramp, while offering an option to go wide, and something to do when you're out of gas. A little life doesn't hurt either. It's all clunky, and none of it's fabulous, but it offers interesting directions of play, and there's a lot going on. Many archetypes are side-case interested in this card, which is a good sign.
All told, I think it's a cool card that will narrowly miss most cubes. I don't expect it to be a star, but I expect it will perform well enough to earn a slot in my cube. I'm excited to try it.
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This is my biggest fear as well. Excited to hear about testing results from other folks.
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I'm probably going to at least test it out and it likely has the best chance of doing something in cube, but my general feeling is lukewarm. :/
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It's an odd card, but the recent "2 for 1" one-drops (Oath of Nissa, Thraben Inspector) have both been good, and the prospect of "white ramp meets one-drop meets Outpost" is enticing enough to say this is testable.
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Flip gideon has to survive through the combat where he attacks. The token doesn't have to survive at all.
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It reminds me more of Windbrisk Heights, except I think the opportunity cost of playing a Trained Caracal is probably worse for you than playing an ETBT Plains in a lot of situations.
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Except if they kill gids, he never flips, but if they kill a random duder this can still flip later. Plus this can flip the turn you play it, unlike gids (also unlike windbrisk heights which is otherwise a reasonable comparison). The condition seems *significantly* easier to meet.
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The real issue is that the reward is *significantly* worse. You flip Gideon, you get an awesome planeswalker. You flip this you get...a land. That needs to tap itself + 2W to make a 1/1. There are a number of If's involved with Gideon, but he has built in protection against those and the reward is amazing. There aren't as many If's involved with this card, but they still exist, and then you have what is a pretty underwhelming card for the type of deck that is looking to flip this.
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Sacred Cat is probably better than this card, and if that's wrong then I really don't think they're that far from each other still.
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You could also have this + 2 other 1 drops. But yeah, it seems like the best it can do and that seems worse than Sacred Cat.
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