I suppose that's the "so much cube removal is exile-based these days" argument being thrown back in our face. I'd like to try it out in Peasant, where the extra mana is less easily abused.
Interesting... Maybe good enough in large cubes as a beater.
Really not sure how big of a draw back it is, it's something for sure, but is potentially surmountable by strong enough stats. Is 4/3 enough??? I'm leaning towards no but could be wrong.
I can only see playing this in the aggroiest of blaggro decks – and then do I really want to risk my opponent having access to their stabilizer 2 turns early? That seems like a huge drawback for a fairly minor upside. If he was 4 toughness, now that'd be a whole other story.
This card has tons of flavor, but I don't want it near my cube. It would trick my less experienced drafters into thinking it was a good idea. This will have a home in cubes where flavor is king, and in cubes where downsides are embraced. The flat power and toughness don't justify the liability elsewhere.
I think I might test this over Pain Seer (who'se been running on borrowed time for a while). Black really doesn't have any stat monsters early in the curve. Unlike most other stat monsters, the drawback isn't until death and I don't think two Lotus Petals is too steep either. Black can help mitigate the drawback with discaDr effects and can pave the way with removal for this. My only reservation is that black aggro tends to be very attrition-based and giving the opponent Lotus Petals while I've been keeping their mana down is a bit counterintuitive.
Probably worth testing. Unlike the red minotaur 4/3 1R, it's a bit more palatable to require my opponent kill the way-above-curve creature than it is/was to discard a card. Black 2s are a lot better than they have been, but I think this could make it.
I'm inclined to pass on this one. There are so many two- and three-mana creatures with 3 power these days which can force an unappealing trade, to say nothing of the usual removal spells. And then suddenly you're dealing with a big T3 PW or T4 Titan that you helped create.
I think the downside here is far more punishing than a card like Bloodrage Brawler. Two free mana in a powerful cube huuuge. One removal spell and your perfectly mana fixed opponent is gonna play some really good spells. Suddenly, that aggressive start of yours won't be looking so hot.
This is an easy include for me. I was close to playing Treacherous Pit-Dweller but the double-black scared me off more than the downside. I'm totally fine with my two-drop soaking up removal for my value dudes while swinging in for a bunch of damage - it's going to be a lot harder than you think for the average deck to kill without using an entire piece of removal on it.
I think the drawback will be relevant much less often than you'd think, and my group's super excited to play it.
My only reservation is that black aggro tends to be very attrition-based and giving the opponent Lotus Petals while I've been keeping their mana down is a bit counterintuitive.
This is my feeling also.
How does it match up against the game plans of other decks?
I think Scoundrels is at its worst against a red-based deck. Except for Magma Jet, Pyroclasm and tiny earthquakes, all of the red removal kills this outright. I'd instantly board it out.
I feel similarly about black removal, with the caveat that several great black removal spells still say nonblack.
It's better against white as its spot removal mostly exiles, but giving my opponent two mana rocks for their wrath doesn't feel great. However, black aggro tends to be more resilient to wraths so perhaps this isn't as big a deal.
Against ramp it's a mixed bag. Some draws will see this thing dominate the board, but other times they'll play a 5/5 on turn 2 and without a removal spell, you're kind of boned.
I'm trying to think of cases where the downside can be mitigated, and the main one I can come up with is playing against exile-based removal or resolving it early against a durdly blue deck.
It's priced to move, but I think I prefer my current suite of black 2 drops. Interested to see other people's testing results.
That drawback is real, but I think a 4/3 for 2 is pretty sweet for pushing black aggro. I'm not sure if I really want my black creature section to head further in that direction, though. I kinda like my various 2/1s that give give card advantage a little more.
A very risky card. Almost a better Bloodrage Brawler, but in a color that has less use and support for a cheap undercosted beater. In many games this will have no drawback at all, whether you face bounce, exile removals or it simply survives. At the times where this enables your opponent to cast a titan two turns earlier, or gets them out of a color screw, this is one of the worst cards you could ever have. This will be tested, but I am not overly optimistic.
Is this card better or worse than Asylum Visitor? My cube supports black aggro but I've never once seen Visitor in a deck.
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Probably worse. Depends on how punishing the two free gold is. A 4/3 for 1B is pretty bonkers, giving your opponent 2 lotus petals for doing what they want to do anyways i.e. kill your guys kinda sucks. My inclination is that the latter is the more likely ACS, but it's hard to say as we haven't had a black 4/3 for 1B before.
I don't like it. I can never make this drawback work to my advantage, whereas I can do so regularly with Bloodrage Brawler. However I suspect it may play better than it looks for cube owing to the sort of removal that is prevalent so I guess it's worth keeping an eye on.
I'll watch this but agree with those that say Bloodrage Brawler gets closer than this does. I like that they keep experimenting with the 4/3 for 2 CC with a drawback though!
This is a huge no for me. You usually win if you are an aggro deck and your opponent can't deal with your two drop. This makes it so that they likely just win if they can deal with it. If it was a 4/4 I would consider it as that would severely limit the things that actually do deal with it, but as it dies to all the things that kill your two drop anyway.
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I've seen worse drawbacks. Thoughts?
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Really not sure how big of a draw back it is, it's something for sure, but is potentially surmountable by strong enough stats. Is 4/3 enough??? I'm leaning towards no but could be wrong.
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I think the drawback will be relevant much less often than you'd think, and my group's super excited to play it.
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Too risky for my taste.
This is my feeling also.
How does it match up against the game plans of other decks?
I think Scoundrels is at its worst against a red-based deck. Except for Magma Jet, Pyroclasm and tiny earthquakes, all of the red removal kills this outright. I'd instantly board it out.
I feel similarly about black removal, with the caveat that several great black removal spells still say nonblack.
It's better against white as its spot removal mostly exiles, but giving my opponent two mana rocks for their wrath doesn't feel great. However, black aggro tends to be more resilient to wraths so perhaps this isn't as big a deal.
Against ramp it's a mixed bag. Some draws will see this thing dominate the board, but other times they'll play a 5/5 on turn 2 and without a removal spell, you're kind of boned.
I'm trying to think of cases where the downside can be mitigated, and the main one I can come up with is playing against exile-based removal or resolving it early against a durdly blue deck.
It's priced to move, but I think I prefer my current suite of black 2 drops. Interested to see other people's testing results.
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