Ok, so this is a thinly veiled thread. I have mixed feelings about this jace (I do like how he snowballs with the ultimate), but I'm actually here to bring up the change to planeswalkers, and how I'll no longer feel bad about specific planeswalker density.
"Starting with this set, all planeswalkers past, present, and future will have the supertype legendary. They will also be subject to the "legend rule." The "planeswalker uniqueness rule" is going away. What does this mean? In short, everything that's true about legendary creatures will now be true about legendary planeswalkers.
Under the new rules, if a player controls more than one legendary planeswalker with the same name, that player chooses one and puts the other into their owner's graveyard. This means that if you control Jace, Unraveler of Secrets and cast Jace, Cunning Castaway, both Jaces can exist under your control."
I think the rule makes sense from a rules standpoint. This is how legendary creatures have worked for a long time (forever?). Although, from a flavor standpoint, I dislike this as much as I disliked when they made it so legends and Planeswalkers could exist on both sides of the board at the same time. Just awkward having Jace v Jace. Also awkward, but super sweet, to curve Thalia 1.0 into Thalia 2.0.
It's a really cool design, I don't know if I prefer him or OG Jace but given he will be pricey for a while I won't have to make the decision for a while. His +1 is pretty terrible compared to OG Jace IMO.
I dislike the rules change and may ignore it for my cube, I like the fact that planeswalkers unique entities. I honestly don't think it will effect me too much though even if I did adopt the rules change.
What does annoy me is it might be a sign we are going to see a lot more of the same recurring faces; Instead of getting new and interesting faces we get another Jace, feels like a cop out them letting you play multiple of the (flavorwise) same walker instead of giving us someone new. I don't get what about this has to be Jace instead of a cool new Ixalan local.
I don't get what about this has to be Jace instead of a cool new Ixalan local.
I definitely agree with this. Nothing about this says Jace. It seems more like superimposing Jace over what could have been a very interesting Ixalan local.
The card itself is kind of meh, imo, even for a 3 mana walker. Needing to have a creature that dealt damage in order for the plus one to do anything is disappointing. A plus one loot without any additional requirements doesn't seem too OP to me. The minus two isn't really an ability my blue decks want in cube. And the ultimate of getting more of something I don't really want to begin with is a little lackluster.
I don't get what about this has to be Jace instead of a cool new Ixalan local.
I definitely agree with this. Nothing about this says Jace. It seems more like superimposing Jace over what could have been a very interesting Ixalan local.
The card itself is kind of meh, imo, even for a 3 mana walker. Needing to have a creature that dealt damage in order for the plus one to do anything is disappointing. A plus one loot without any additional requirements doesn't seem too OP to me. The minus two isn't really an ability my blue decks want in cube. And the ultimate of getting more of something I don't really want to begin with is a little lackluster.
Yea if it was a new character they could have tied this ability to them (an elusive merfolk with a school of his own clones, a crazy izzet mage etc.) but instead it's just a Jace thing (they aren't even Illusions ).
I guess the requirement to hit with a creature is a safety valve in case he proves too easy to keep ultimating; 3-5 free loots a turn could be very strong (though not game breaking), this forces you to balance the +/- abilities more or run creatures. That's the only reason I can think of for it not being a straight looting ability.
The problem with new Jace is that it's double blue, which makes it difficult to have creatures get in by then. Making an illusion is really cool and flavorful, but blue is way too tight. If it was 2U and the + ability was similar to Edric, however.....
Maybe this card's just not my style, but nothing about it screams "cube me". I suppose it's best to look at it as a 2/2 Illusion for three mana that loots with some long-term upside, but for 1UU that doesn't excite me. Even with the new rule change letting all the Jaces run wild side by side, this one feels marginal.
Having two different Jaces out is a flavor fail, in the same way having two Thalias out is a flavor fail. It makes the rules more consistent, but now there's just two dumb rules instead.
Oh... my ... god... Gideon and Liliana just got way more powerful in cube.
This jace is between meh and crappy, but I always underestimate 3 mana planeswalkers, so I'll just go with meh.
2/2 every other turn for 3 mana is OK, but a bit slow. 1UU competition is deep. Minimal synergies. The +1 is meh. Ultimate is good but not great.
Not testing
The rule probably makes for better Magic even if it is dumb.
Fine Jace is fine. I won't run him since my group is pretty sour on planeswalkers these days and they need to do something very cool to get in, but I like the ult a lot, which isn't something I normally say about 'walkers.
Ugh. The new planeswalker rule is a flavor fail (and I rarely complain about flavor), and this card is a Jace fail. It would have been nice to see a new blue 'Walker debut. But now, with the type uniqueness gone, there's no reason to stop printing more versions of the Gatewatch.
I kinda like this jace, but mostly cause it costs 3. At minimum testing it, since 3 mana walkers always play better than they look.
And re:rules, from a gameplay standpoint its fine I guess, but from a flavor point of view it's really annoying. Though it's kind of funny to have the possibility of, say, Sarkhan the Mad and Sarkhan Unbroken hanging together.
1) Change to PW rules. Helps Jace, Elspeth, Gideon, Garruk, and Chandra in my cube.
2) DFC's in Ixalan and new card frames!
3) A rather interesting response to the Ixalan leak and clarity on all of the cards within said leak.
4) A new Jace....and he's kind of sexy. Doesn't look like it will play too hot though.
Mornings like these make me really love this game.
New Jace seems awful. Barely protects himself and his + incentivizes you to lower your shields by attacking.
I think the new planeswalker legend rule is pretty dumb as well. Doesn't seem as special to have multiple Elspeths on the same battlefield, but whatever.
I am actually a pretty big fan of this card. We have blue aggro in the Cube and While this Jace may not be in your face strong, he snowballs in a deck that excels when it can snowball.
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STANDARD|UW Control MODERN| UBG Midrange PAUPER| UG Fog COMMANDER| UBG The Mimeoplasm
This card isn't good, and might have the worst art I've ever seen on a card that is this high profile.
Edit: I suppose it's not terrible. It's like Ashiok in that it doesn't really do anything against aggressive decks, but if you land it early against control they're going to have a rough time winning.
Yeah, even for only costing 3, this card seems underwhelming. They could have at least made his +1 just flat-out draw and discard instead of requiring combat damage, his -2 is meh, and while I really like the idea behind his ultimate, I'd be getting copies of a card that I don't want in the first place. Lame.
Cubes that run U based aggro will get mileage out of this card. The idea that he does nothing against aggro decks seems like a shoddy talking point once we understand that this is not really a control card - GASP!
Blue Aggro is a super fun archetype, and I know a lot of people do not run it, but for those that do.. I feel like this version of Jace actually is pretty good. He may not be in your face good, but he is flexible in a archetype that loves being flexible. You can equip your tokens with weapons, you can get loot effects early on to start working tempo, and you can ult into the right set of abilities to suit your board state. 1UU for 4 loyalty is not a bad rate when you are wanting to pull ahead in the early game through card quality and a -2 for a token that trades well vs a lot of aggro creatures in Cube is more than fair.
Is this Jace a slam dunk include? Hardly. Is this Jace worth testing for those running Blue aggro? I say definitely.
I am definitely excited to get this guy into my Cube to see what my playgroup does with him. Maybe he will fall flat, idk. But I doubt he will be terrible as suggested here in this thread.
EDIT: As a side not, even if you +1 and do not get to loot and the board is not really doing anything... you still are going to get an essential rebuy on those activations when you ult.
This is my thought as well. I personally don't expect it to remain forever or even past testing for me since blue players go for controlling builds more than tempo around here, but this seems like a real card where blue tempo is a regular/always player as it both rewards you for doing what that deck wants to anyways and gives you 2/2s to help with it more.
From the Mechanics article:
"Starting with this set, all planeswalkers past, present, and future will have the supertype legendary. They will also be subject to the "legend rule." The "planeswalker uniqueness rule" is going away. What does this mean? In short, everything that's true about legendary creatures will now be true about legendary planeswalkers.
Under the new rules, if a player controls more than one legendary planeswalker with the same name, that player chooses one and puts the other into their owner's graveyard. This means that if you control Jace, Unraveler of Secrets and cast Jace, Cunning Castaway, both Jaces can exist under your control."
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New PW rule is pretty nuts. Gideon of the Trials emblem becomes much more relevant and PW name saturation is a thing in the past.
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I dislike the rules change and may ignore it for my cube, I like the fact that planeswalkers unique entities. I honestly don't think it will effect me too much though even if I did adopt the rules change.
What does annoy me is it might be a sign we are going to see a lot more of the same recurring faces; Instead of getting new and interesting faces we get another Jace, feels like a cop out them letting you play multiple of the (flavorwise) same walker instead of giving us someone new. I don't get what about this has to be Jace instead of a cool new Ixalan local.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
I definitely agree with this. Nothing about this says Jace. It seems more like superimposing Jace over what could have been a very interesting Ixalan local.
The card itself is kind of meh, imo, even for a 3 mana walker. Needing to have a creature that dealt damage in order for the plus one to do anything is disappointing. A plus one loot without any additional requirements doesn't seem too OP to me. The minus two isn't really an ability my blue decks want in cube. And the ultimate of getting more of something I don't really want to begin with is a little lackluster.
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Yea if it was a new character they could have tied this ability to them (an elusive merfolk with a school of his own clones, a crazy izzet mage etc.) but instead it's just a Jace thing (they aren't even Illusions ).
I guess the requirement to hit with a creature is a safety valve in case he proves too easy to keep ultimating; 3-5 free loots a turn could be very strong (though not game breaking), this forces you to balance the +/- abilities more or run creatures. That's the only reason I can think of for it not being a straight looting ability.
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What's wrong with the new planeswalker rule?
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This jace is between meh and crappy, but I always underestimate 3 mana planeswalkers, so I'll just go with meh.
2/2 every other turn for 3 mana is OK, but a bit slow. 1UU competition is deep. Minimal synergies. The +1 is meh. Ultimate is good but not great.
Not testing
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dont really like the new planeswalker rule. not going to run this card. nothing else to add.
Fine Jace is fine. I won't run him since my group is pretty sour on planeswalkers these days and they need to do something very cool to get in, but I like the ult a lot, which isn't something I normally say about 'walkers.
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And re:rules, from a gameplay standpoint its fine I guess, but from a flavor point of view it's really annoying. Though it's kind of funny to have the possibility of, say, Sarkhan the Mad and Sarkhan Unbroken hanging together.
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1) Change to PW rules. Helps Jace, Elspeth, Gideon, Garruk, and Chandra in my cube.
2) DFC's in Ixalan and new card frames!
3) A rather interesting response to the Ixalan leak and clarity on all of the cards within said leak.
4) A new Jace....and he's kind of sexy. Doesn't look like it will play too hot though.
Mornings like these make me really love this game.
I think the new planeswalker legend rule is pretty dumb as well. Doesn't seem as special to have multiple Elspeths on the same battlefield, but whatever.
STANDARD|UW Control MODERN| UBG Midrange PAUPER| UG Fog COMMANDER| UBG The Mimeoplasm
Edit: I suppose it's not terrible. It's like Ashiok in that it doesn't really do anything against aggressive decks, but if you land it early against control they're going to have a rough time winning.
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Blue Aggro is a super fun archetype, and I know a lot of people do not run it, but for those that do.. I feel like this version of Jace actually is pretty good. He may not be in your face good, but he is flexible in a archetype that loves being flexible. You can equip your tokens with weapons, you can get loot effects early on to start working tempo, and you can ult into the right set of abilities to suit your board state. 1UU for 4 loyalty is not a bad rate when you are wanting to pull ahead in the early game through card quality and a -2 for a token that trades well vs a lot of aggro creatures in Cube is more than fair.
Is this Jace a slam dunk include? Hardly. Is this Jace worth testing for those running Blue aggro? I say definitely.
I am already imagining games where players are able to drop a 1 or 2 drop creature into Jace, Cunning Castaway with follow ups like Aether Adept, Man-O'-War, Reflector Mage, Frozen Aether, Sower of Temptation, Venser, Shaper Savant, Cryptic Command, or a number of other cards that will help carry you to an ultimate activation to just snowball for the win. That is not even mentioning all of the other cards you could play that do not fall into blue but pair well with blue aggro.
I am definitely excited to get this guy into my Cube to see what my playgroup does with him. Maybe he will fall flat, idk. But I doubt he will be terrible as suggested here in this thread.
EDIT: As a side not, even if you +1 and do not get to loot and the board is not really doing anything... you still are going to get an essential rebuy on those activations when you ult.
STANDARD|UW Control MODERN| UBG Midrange PAUPER| UG Fog COMMANDER| UBG The Mimeoplasm
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic