Yeah, I don't think I'd cut Baral's Expertise for this card. We've only had a couple of cube drafts since including it, but it's been a very solid performer. If you're still running Imprisoned in the Moon, that's the ideal cut for this, but if you're not, I'd definitely looking somewhere other than Expertise to find room. I think I'll probably try this over Disallow.
Ugh, that Torrential Gearhulk exploit is one of those bizarre and unintuitive rules interactions that I could go without. It is certainly a powerful interaction, but most players won't realize that this would work. I am happy that Wizards recently changed the way split cards work in regards to how their mana cost is counted. But this exploit here is pretty much more of that problem.
Oooh, it is only great in 75% of the games and not in 100% of the games.
Oooh, it is dependent on one of the most common situations, rather than being always top notch.
Better cut it.
Oooh, it is only great in 75% of the games and not in 100% of the games.
Oooh, it is dependent on one of the most common situations, rather than being always top notch.
Better cut it.
If my numbers matched what you just stated, I'd probably keep it around longer. My sweeper saturation is a bit high at the moment. I currently don't have space for both Commit // Memory and Baral's Expertise.
Oooh, it is only great in 75% of the games and not in 100% of the games.
Oooh, it is dependent on one of the most common situations, rather than being always top notch.
Better cut it.
I realize you're saying this facetiously, but honest to god in 360 and 450 lists blue is so tight for space that you can indeed cut a card like Baral's Expertise for something that's better. Baral's would be bonkers as an instant, but if I'm tapping out for a big blue sorcery speed card, I want to be drawing 7 and untapping my lands, stealing their best creature and untapping my lands, or playing Upheaval. Though now that I think about it, casting a 5cmc spell for free is sort of like that. But the timing window sucks. With the others, I can hold up countermagic, play a threat, draw more cards, etc. Baral's can't quite do all that.
Commit // Memory is cool as a bounce and counter, if a little inefficient, but the extra draw 7 seems awesome in my cube. I love adding more of those rare effects to cube, especially when they sneak in more or less for free.
Still not sure what my cut will be. Forbid? Into the Roil? Serum Visions? Ugh. Blue is tough.
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It seems like an instant speed bounce to the top of the library at common costs 3U. Even in modern design, this effect is fine at 4 mana. Take Vanishment for example, there's a 1 mana tax on it because of its Miracle Mode. Additionally, there are many 3 mana cards that do something like this, but come with a condition. I actually think that making this cost 4 mana is undercosting it, which i'm okay with.
Additionally, this also works as Memory Lapse. That added value is huge and I think that WOTC keeping it at 4 mana still really pushes it
That is without talking about Memory. This is Time Reversal for 1 extra mana that comes with the card advantage that its castable from the graveyard. In a regular game of Magic, playing Time Reversal as the last card in your hand means that you 7 for 1'd (Opponent's card drawing notwithstanding)
This is a 7 for 0 if you are able to run out of cards in hand. I know it sounds like an exaggeration, but having the option of casting this without it being a dead card until then (Since Commit is playable) makes this card so much better than what it looks at face value
This card is one of the bluest cards for cube. The front side provides disruption that also doubles as an answer, fitting in control decks, while the aftermath provides a way to refresh your hand, ideal for counter burn strategies, while being castable from the graveyard.
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After reading a lot of comments and proxying up a couple games with this card, I've come around. This is better than I thought at first blush and is likely to make the cut.
It will be going in place of imprisoned by the moon for me. That card was fine but not sexy enough for blue when you can splash for real removal. I look forward to casting commit on a nasty permanent, then playing memory with my Torrential Gearhulk at end of their turn so I get first dibs on the new 7.
I also think this is the only aftermath card they printed where the front side didn't get a cost increase.
I understand the awesomeness of Commit. What about Memory? I would be hesitant to cast it unless I was discarding only 1-2 and my opponent was discarding 5+. Letting my opponent untap with that much mana and a full-grip before I get to (like with Time Spiral) seems really dangerous.
I get that it is just gravy on an otherwise good card. But am I missing something?
I understand the awesomeness of Commit. What about Memory? I would be hesitant to cast it unless I was discarding only 1-2 and my opponent was discarding 5+. Letting my opponent untap with that much mana and a full-grip before I get to (like with Time Spiral) seems really dangerous.
I get that it is just gravy on an otherwise good card. But am I missing something?
The gravy has a pretty high ceiling. I get your reservations, and I'm not convinced this has a long place in cube for a variety of reasons, but the front side as a floor is probably good enough that if the back side works great it will be incredible.
It's just as risky as other draw-7 spells, and you would cast it in the same window where you'd play Timetwister. The aftermath cost is a bargain, actually, considering that the estimated cost after Flashback tax on a Timetwister would be 6U or 7U. And they don't print good draw-7 effects anymore, so it's kinda nice getting the effect stapled to an already playable card. Use it when your hand is empty and your opponent's hand isn't to generate some CA. Since you're playing Memory from your graveyard, it's actually easier to generate card advantage with the effect than other draw-7 effects.
I agree that memory is going to be cast effectively only a small percentage of times. Timetwister an wheel can be cast while leaving extra mana up or very early in a fast deck where that will not happen with memory. But the nice part is for a spells.dec, that just wants 7 more cards and will win the following turn.
Remember it plays very well with commit. If they have a gamebreaking spell or permanent you hit it with commit, lay your 5th land, they draw the top card above the committed card, then you lay your 6th land and can play memory before the committed card is ever redrawn. This sequence might also be narrow but there are some cards (true-name nemesis..cough cough) that I go out of my way to keep off the board.
What I like most about Memory is you don't have to think about whether the wheel effect is worth a card in your decklist. Often at my table, stuff like Timetwister and Time Spiral sit in sideboards because there are other, more concretely obvious useful cards ready to go. For this one, you just need to want to play Commit, and I can't think of a single deck that plays blue that won't find a game situation where they're happy to have Commit available. You'd take it out against very aggressive decks where your mana is at a premium and your answers have to be rapid, but every opponent is going to be playing spells and non-land permanents so you'll never lack for a target.
Then once you've used Commit, you've got this thing sitting in your graveyard that demands your opponent respect it. Yours is probably not the only deck in the cube that can bury the opponent in cards, so if an opponent gets too far ahead, you can go for the reset; if you take the edge, you can just let it sit there.
I like haveing a Timetwister option even in decks that wouldn't maindeck it. What I can't quite commit myself to is Commit (sorry). 3U is a lot for removal and 3U is a lot for a Memory Lapse. Of course we're paying for the flexibility, which Venser has proven to be useful, but without the aftermath, I don't think I'd be interested in Commit at all. So for me it depends very much on how often Memory is going to be used. Draw 7 is a very powerful effect, but if it's just sitting there ... idk.
I like haveing a Timetwister option even in decks that wouldn't maindeck it. What I can't quite commit myself to is Commit (sorry). 3U is a lot for removal and 3U is a lot for a Memory Lapse. Of course we're paying for the flexibility, which Venser has proven to be useful, but without the aftermath, I don't think I'd be interested in Commit at all. So for me it depends very much on how often Memory is going to be used. Draw 7 is a very powerful effect, but if it's just sitting there ... idk.
There exist a % low enough threshold, that if memory is almost never cast, I would not cube with this card.
Commit is not good enough by itself to be worth a slot in cube, but it is close. Yesterday I watched a friend play a UW spells deck with double delver of secrets (excuse my weird cube) that would effectively never cast memory, but we decided commit was barely good enough as a 23rd playable.. Due to instant speed synergy , another spell for delver and some tempo advantages.
While memory is a "bad" timespiral , there are decks that are happy to have access to a bad timespiral. Specifically blue decks that ramp hard , and don't have an abundance of card draw.
With commit being ~90% good enough, memory only needs to make up a 10% gap.. And the ceiling on memory is high enough to be worth multiple cards.
So if you think about it, it rarely has to be used to good effect, for it to be good enough. If it's used any more than rarely, it's incredible.
I'm a firm believer of this card in 540+ powered cubes, but I'm not sure about lower.
I have faith in this card. I don't think it is broken or somthing, but every part about the card is very, very solid.
Also, I just got a foil copy of it, and it looks gorgeous. I want to present in my cube many frame styles, and this card may be the best Aftermath card for this mission.
Also, nobody here menitioned the fact that Memory has a nice synergy in graveyard decks with Dradge cards and self-discarding spells, and Memory is the best answer againts a resolved Mind Twist.
I will test this card in my 485, unpowered cube, probably replacing Harbinger of the Tides.
The draw 7 is randomly good with Psychatog + other similar discard outlets. With at least two cards in your hand and this in your yard is 14 damage with Tog.
I've liked Commit//Memory pretty well so far. The counter and tuck is relevant often enough. The Aftermath being Sorcery speed and giving your opponent access to the new cards first can be a bit of a bummer, but drawing seven cards is powerful and not having to spend a card to do it is great. I think you could find room at 450 if you really wanted to test the card, but I don't think it makes the cut in cubes smaller than that. 540 is likely the sweet spot for a card like this, though.
I've enjoyed it. I don't expect it to be in my cube forever, but being able to interact with both the board and stack has been crucial. Had a match the other day where I was able to counter a sundering titan with it, and then the next game I let the opponent's other big creature--wurmcoil--resolve, played a different spell EOT, and then Committed the wurmcoil on their turn after draw. It's nice that you're able to approach scenarios differently within the same card.
The aftermath part of the card has been less relevant. It's pretty dangerous to let your opponent play cards from his hand first, so I've really only see it used in mega-mana scenarios or as a last resort. I would probably still play it w/o the aftermath.
Card's been solid. Not as dynamic as Venser, Shaper Savant ...but Commit still does solid work. Not sure if it'll be around forever, but I'm not in a rush to cut it or anything.
A little late to the party, but I'm really satisfied with this card.
Commit is perhaps not the most powerful spell, but it's a nice catch-all that rounds out my other blue tools pretty well. My control decks are sometimes extremely grindy as well, so much so that I already have Elixir of Immortality in the cube .... Now, Memory serves as another way to go to the extreme long-game. This is not the cheapest draw-7, but I think squeezing two desirable effects into a single card is efficient, and I don't mind the added cost in exchange for the capacity for blue decks to avail another slot to some cool artifact, enchantment or creature they might otherwise have to cut.
I think I'll be happy cubing with this card for many drafts to come.
How has this card held up? I still run Imprisoned in the Moon, but am looking to make the switch.
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Baral's Expertise is too matchup / situation dependent.
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Oooh, it is dependent on one of the most common situations, rather than being always top notch.
Better cut it.
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If my numbers matched what you just stated, I'd probably keep it around longer. My sweeper saturation is a bit high at the moment. I currently don't have space for both Commit // Memory and Baral's Expertise.
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I realize you're saying this facetiously, but honest to god in 360 and 450 lists blue is so tight for space that you can indeed cut a card like Baral's Expertise for something that's better. Baral's would be bonkers as an instant, but if I'm tapping out for a big blue sorcery speed card, I want to be drawing 7 and untapping my lands, stealing their best creature and untapping my lands, or playing Upheaval. Though now that I think about it, casting a 5cmc spell for free is sort of like that. But the timing window sucks. With the others, I can hold up countermagic, play a threat, draw more cards, etc. Baral's can't quite do all that.
Commit // Memory is cool as a bounce and counter, if a little inefficient, but the extra draw 7 seems awesome in my cube. I love adding more of those rare effects to cube, especially when they sneak in more or less for free.
Still not sure what my cut will be. Forbid? Into the Roil? Serum Visions? Ugh. Blue is tough.
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It seems like an instant speed bounce to the top of the library at common costs 3U. Even in modern design, this effect is fine at 4 mana. Take Vanishment for example, there's a 1 mana tax on it because of its Miracle Mode. Additionally, there are many 3 mana cards that do something like this, but come with a condition. I actually think that making this cost 4 mana is undercosting it, which i'm okay with.
Additionally, this also works as Memory Lapse. That added value is huge and I think that WOTC keeping it at 4 mana still really pushes it
That is without talking about Memory. This is Time Reversal for 1 extra mana that comes with the card advantage that its castable from the graveyard. In a regular game of Magic, playing Time Reversal as the last card in your hand means that you 7 for 1'd (Opponent's card drawing notwithstanding)
This is a 7 for 0 if you are able to run out of cards in hand. I know it sounds like an exaggeration, but having the option of casting this without it being a dead card until then (Since Commit is playable) makes this card so much better than what it looks at face value
This card is one of the bluest cards for cube. The front side provides disruption that also doubles as an answer, fitting in control decks, while the aftermath provides a way to refresh your hand, ideal for counter burn strategies, while being castable from the graveyard.
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I also think this is the only aftermath card they printed where the front side didn't get a cost increase.
I get that it is just gravy on an otherwise good card. But am I missing something?
The gravy has a pretty high ceiling. I get your reservations, and I'm not convinced this has a long place in cube for a variety of reasons, but the front side as a floor is probably good enough that if the back side works great it will be incredible.
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Remember it plays very well with commit. If they have a gamebreaking spell or permanent you hit it with commit, lay your 5th land, they draw the top card above the committed card, then you lay your 6th land and can play memory before the committed card is ever redrawn. This sequence might also be narrow but there are some cards (true-name nemesis..cough cough) that I go out of my way to keep off the board.
Then once you've used Commit, you've got this thing sitting in your graveyard that demands your opponent respect it. Yours is probably not the only deck in the cube that can bury the opponent in cards, so if an opponent gets too far ahead, you can go for the reset; if you take the edge, you can just let it sit there.
There exist a % low enough threshold, that if memory is almost never cast, I would not cube with this card.
Commit is not good enough by itself to be worth a slot in cube, but it is close. Yesterday I watched a friend play a UW spells deck with double delver of secrets (excuse my weird cube) that would effectively never cast memory, but we decided commit was barely good enough as a 23rd playable.. Due to instant speed synergy , another spell for delver and some tempo advantages.
While memory is a "bad" timespiral , there are decks that are happy to have access to a bad timespiral. Specifically blue decks that ramp hard , and don't have an abundance of card draw.
With commit being ~90% good enough, memory only needs to make up a 10% gap.. And the ceiling on memory is high enough to be worth multiple cards.
So if you think about it, it rarely has to be used to good effect, for it to be good enough. If it's used any more than rarely, it's incredible.
I'm a firm believer of this card in 540+ powered cubes, but I'm not sure about lower.
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Also, I just got a foil copy of it, and it looks gorgeous. I want to present in my cube many frame styles, and this card may be the best Aftermath card for this mission.
Also, nobody here menitioned the fact that Memory has a nice synergy in graveyard decks with Dradge cards and self-discarding spells, and Memory is the best answer againts a resolved Mind Twist.
I will test this card in my 485, unpowered cube, probably replacing Harbinger of the Tides.
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The aftermath part of the card has been less relevant. It's pretty dangerous to let your opponent play cards from his hand first, so I've really only see it used in mega-mana scenarios or as a last resort. I would probably still play it w/o the aftermath.
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Commit is perhaps not the most powerful spell, but it's a nice catch-all that rounds out my other blue tools pretty well. My control decks are sometimes extremely grindy as well, so much so that I already have Elixir of Immortality in the cube .... Now, Memory serves as another way to go to the extreme long-game. This is not the cheapest draw-7, but I think squeezing two desirable effects into a single card is efficient, and I don't mind the added cost in exchange for the capacity for blue decks to avail another slot to some cool artifact, enchantment or creature they might otherwise have to cut.
I think I'll be happy cubing with this card for many drafts to come.
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