Since my only potential cuts are Carnophage or Diregraf Ghoul, I think Carnophage is the obvious choice...I think we could agree on that.
Is the 1 toughness relevant for a creature with recursion? I don't know, but I'd rather the other synergies this allows me than that occasionally-relevant extra point of toughness.
Then again, maybe you're right and its as simple as "No"
I started a reply on my phone browser, hit 'post' by mistake, and the resultant two letter post amused me significantly enough to leave it as was and decide to come back to it later. Get angsty for the moment if you like but I'll walk you through my thoughts on cuts later on.
Righto, EDIT: First off, sorry for upsetting you initially.
Secondly: If you really don't think you need 7 drops at 360 (I think 7 would be my target, but it's a tough call) then I would probably cut Sarcomancy over Carnophage, reason primarily being that Carnophage is perhaps marginally better in a vacuum - and that black generally prefers creature bodies. Downside there though is that Sarcomancy is sometimes relevant as a double permanent for sac effects and so on. So yeah, it's really tough. We can both agree that Dread Wanderer needs inclusion though, right?
This guy is sweet. Art is rad. Never ran Sarcomancy but I'll be slamming that and Blackal Pup both in along with Plague Belcher. At what point do we just start putting zombie lords in black?
This set is turning out to be one of the biggest changes for my Cube in a long time.
At what point do we just start putting zombie lords in black?
Graveborn Muse is super good and works well enough on its lonesome as an Arena + 3/3 for 1 more. Cemetery Reaper would be the other one to start with I think, it's not bad as a standalone.
Sure this card is great, but there are so many cards in this slot already that I'm barely interested. At some point it all becomes academic between Gnarled Scarhide, Gravecrawler, Diregraf Ghoul, Tormented Hero, Vampire Lacerator, etc..
Back in day, Carnophage and Savannah Lions were a big deal. Nowadays, there's a new one every few sets. I'll probably play this if I open it, but I'm certainly not going to seek it out.
Sure this card is great, but there are so many cards in this slot already that I'm barely interested. At some point it all becomes academic between Gnarled Scarhide, Gravecrawler, Diregraf Ghoul, Tormented Hero, Vampire Lacerator, etc..
Back in day, Carnophage and Savannah Lions were a big deal. Nowadays, there's a new one every few sets. I'll probably play this if I open it, but I'm certainly not going to seek it out.
I'm not trying to be snarky, but how do you not have room for this in a 1500 card cube? This card works great with all those cards you mention, is better in most scenarios than Diregraf/Lacerator/Hero, and there are probably literally 100 cuts you could make for this. Isn't that part of the appeal of a 1500 card cube, that you can literally run every great card from every set?
I'm not trying to be snarky, but how do you not have room for this in a 1500 card cube? This card works great with all those cards you mention, is better in most scenarios than Diregraf/Lacerator/Hero, and there are probably literally 100 cuts you could make for this. Isn't that part of the appeal of a 1500 card cube, that you can literally run every great card from every set?
There's absolutely room for this, and if I open it, I'll cut something less synergistic like Lacerator, as recusion is better than the average upside. My reaction is not against the quality of the card, it's against the oversaturation of the slot. It's a good card, but it's not one I'd clamor for.
No worries. Tone often times is beguiled by the medium.
I think, as another user put, the difference between Carnophage and company is rather academic--no choice made between the very similar options will be substantial enough that any decision amongst those available could be considered incorrect. After bringing up Gnarled Scarhide in my last reply, I'm leaning towards giving that some bench time in light of all the zombies invading my cube with this set simply to keep their numbers inflated to maximum capacity (and because I've literally never seen it bestowed).
But yes, in short, that mofo is being included asap.
Great card. For me, the question is between Vampire Lacerator and Tormented Hero. Hero is the closer analogy, but is human and perhaps slightly better than Lacerator. Choices, choices...
Great card. For me, the question is between Vampire Lacerator and Tormented Hero. Hero is the closer analogy, but is human and perhaps slightly better than Lacerator. Choices, choices...
But for Lacerator, being a vampire also matters with cards like Falkenrath Gorger and Kalitas
Also important to recognize this card is great with Braids/Smokestack/Sac-for-value, unlike many of the other 1 mana creatures in black. Potentially even better than Gravecrawler, since the condition is perhaps easier to meet for recursion, unless your cube is heavier on zombies than most.
Great card. For me, the question is between Vampire Lacerator and Tormented Hero. Hero is the closer analogy, but is human and perhaps slightly better than Lacerator. Choices, choices...
But for Lacerator, being a vampire also matters with cards like Falkenrath Gorger and Kalitas
my one gripe is that I feel the 1 card or less clause is enough to limit it. the sorcery speed kind of sucks with ETBT since you can't do it end of turn to attack with haste or simply bring him back as a surprise blocker.
The only question is what I'll be cutting. A non-zombie 1-drop is the logical choice but I might want to add another aggressive creature. It'll require some examination and testing.
While the life loss is negligible, i prefer sarcomancy over carnophage because the life loss can be mitigated easier. while black does prefer bodies over enchantments, i dont see myself frequently reanimating 1 drop 2/2 or 2/1s, unless they can do it on their own. and like you had mentioned, the extra permanent does aid towards stax and occasionally blink for more Zombies if you're into that.
While gnarled can put an extra point for goyf and potentially bestow, i think id drop it for dread wanderer. Zombies for life yo
Tl;dr
I feel that sarcomancy is slightly > carnophage and dread wanderer > gnarled scarhide
Did a little testing last night with this guy as I'm really unsure how to integrate him into my list (what to cut). Had a game where I couldn't recur him as I got stuck with some extra land in hand with a card I couldn't play. It was a Stax type deck and my tempo faltered a little bit (at the time I wished badly for him to be Blood-soaked). This might be more corner case than ACS though (in fact I feel confident it probably is). That said, I rarely have trouble recurring gravecrawler or champion. So this guy feels weaker than both to me FWIW.
This new guy I think is clearly better than the generic 2 power 1 drops without recursion. I think he's better than scarhide if you have a a lot of hellbent/sacrifice/zombie synergy. Maybe not if you don't have a healthy amount of synergy though. Scarhide in my midrange cube is surprisingly versatile because later in the game he can function as removal. Scarhide is a very sweet card and gun to my head I might pick it over this new guy if I was forced to choose. Not in my combo list though (I prefer this new guy in combo as creature combat is less prevalent so the "can't block" alternative functionality will likely be less relevant).
This guy is a slam include at the surface. Can someone explain why Carnophage is regarded so highly? I cut him ages ago but see him held on a pedestal everywhere like he is untouchable. Kind of similar question for Sarcomancy, although there have at least been more good Zombies printed over the years to help mitigate the 1 damage to the face.
This guy is a slam include at the surface. Can someone explain why Carnophage is regarded so highly? I cut him ages ago but see him held on a pedestal everywhere like he is untouchable. Kind of similar question for Sarcomancy, although there have at least been more good Zombies printed over the years to help mitigate the 1 damage to the face.
Not trading with a 1/1 is strong for an aggressive 1-drop.
I think the Carnophage discussion depends on the cube size, as well. At 360, the only non-recursive one-drops in black I run are Carrion Feeder and Diregraf Ghoul. If I were to go up to 540, I'd need to look for more one-drops, at which point Carnophage would very likely get in assuming I'd still be wanting to support black aggro.
I started a reply on my phone browser, hit 'post' by mistake, and the resultant two letter post amused me significantly enough to leave it as was and decide to come back to it later. Get angsty for the moment if you like but I'll walk you through my thoughts on cuts later on.
Righto, EDIT: First off, sorry for upsetting you initially.
Secondly: If you really don't think you need 7 drops at 360 (I think 7 would be my target, but it's a tough call) then I would probably cut Sarcomancy over Carnophage, reason primarily being that Carnophage is perhaps marginally better in a vacuum - and that black generally prefers creature bodies. Downside there though is that Sarcomancy is sometimes relevant as a double permanent for sac effects and so on. So yeah, it's really tough. We can both agree that Dread Wanderer needs inclusion though, right?
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
This set is turning out to be one of the biggest changes for my Cube in a long time.
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Graveborn Muse is super good and works well enough on its lonesome as an Arena + 3/3 for 1 more. Cemetery Reaper would be the other one to start with I think, it's not bad as a standalone.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Back in day, Carnophage and Savannah Lions were a big deal. Nowadays, there's a new one every few sets. I'll probably play this if I open it, but I'm certainly not going to seek it out.
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I'm not trying to be snarky, but how do you not have room for this in a 1500 card cube? This card works great with all those cards you mention, is better in most scenarios than Diregraf/Lacerator/Hero, and there are probably literally 100 cuts you could make for this. Isn't that part of the appeal of a 1500 card cube, that you can literally run every great card from every set?
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There's absolutely room for this, and if I open it, I'll cut something less synergistic like Lacerator, as recusion is better than the average upside. My reaction is not against the quality of the card, it's against the oversaturation of the slot. It's a good card, but it's not one I'd clamor for.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
No worries. Tone often times is beguiled by the medium.
I think, as another user put, the difference between Carnophage and company is rather academic--no choice made between the very similar options will be substantial enough that any decision amongst those available could be considered incorrect. After bringing up Gnarled Scarhide in my last reply, I'm leaning towards giving that some bench time in light of all the zombies invading my cube with this set simply to keep their numbers inflated to maximum capacity (and because I've literally never seen it bestowed).
But yes, in short, that mofo is being included asap.
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But for Lacerator, being a vampire also matters with cards like Falkenrath Gorger and Kalitas
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Don't forget that kalitas, traitor of ghet is vampire OR ZOMBIE so no real loss there!
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My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
so fun
E: also, lol at Blackal Pup.
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Would like to note this is the first recurrable one drop.. THAT CAN BLOCK *hands to face*
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While gnarled can put an extra point for goyf and potentially bestow, i think id drop it for dread wanderer. Zombies for life yo
Tl;dr
I feel that sarcomancy is slightly > carnophage and dread wanderer > gnarled scarhide
This new guy I think is clearly better than the generic 2 power 1 drops without recursion. I think he's better than scarhide if you have a a lot of hellbent/sacrifice/zombie synergy. Maybe not if you don't have a healthy amount of synergy though. Scarhide in my midrange cube is surprisingly versatile because later in the game he can function as removal. Scarhide is a very sweet card and gun to my head I might pick it over this new guy if I was forced to choose. Not in my combo list though (I prefer this new guy in combo as creature combat is less prevalent so the "can't block" alternative functionality will likely be less relevant).
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
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Modern: Jund
Not trading with a 1/1 is strong for an aggressive 1-drop.
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My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
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