MTG Salvation

I also like this more than Ruinous Path, and I will probably be finding room for this.

I like it.

Im assuming I can't target this with the second half, correct?

I don't think so, no. I think there would need to be another card in one of the graveyards to target.

Cool, cool. I do like that this provides black some GY hate. Even the color that plays out of the GY the most wants to hate the GY at times, like I see this pairing well with Living Death.

Better than Ruinous Path. Plus the layout does not look that bad on a black card.
The Sorcery Heroe's Downfall plus upside seem to be a decent standard.

Seems like a lot of fun. I also thin the card layout looks better in black

Ruinous Path looks a lot better than this. Pass.

Having two costs seems better than one or the other. I'm still going to be getting a creature with this more often than Path. Plus the incidental hate is sweet.

Quote from Star Slayer »

Ruinous Path looks a lot better than this. Pass.

It's really defendable that, in fact, this is not. The graveyard hate is not to underestimate. And a 2/2 for 3C is far more easy to cast to a tapped 4/4 for 5CC. Don't forget that the 4/4 is also strap on one of your land, so it makes it easier to destroy and more backbreaking to see it goes away.

I think this is much better than Ruinous Path. Every time that you cast Path with <7 mana available (which is the majority of the time) you're only getting partial value. Every time I cast Never // Return I'll have an opportunity to get value from its second ability. The additional average value is going to be so much higher on this spell, despite the ceiling being slightly lower. Additionally, it provides more useful maindeckable graveyard hate, and another spell that can make Zombies for Gravecrawler and Sarcomancy! And if it's discarded (instead of cast), it can still be used from the 'yard. Seems great to me.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

I think this is much better than Ruinous Path. Every time that you cast Path with <7 mana available (which is the majority of the time) you're only getting partial value. Every time I cast Never // Return I'll have an opportunity to get value from its second ability. The additional average value is going to be so much higher on this spell, despite the ceiling being slightly lower. Additionally, it provides more useful maindeckable graveyard hate, and another spell that can make Zombies for Gravecrawler and Sarcomancy! And if it's discarded (instead of cast), it can still be used from the 'yard. Seems great to me.

This

No, seriously, Ruinous Path looks a lot better than this.

Quote from Star Slayer »

No, seriously, Ruinous Path looks a lot better than this.

That it does. Aftermath is a pretty aesthetically unappealing template, for sure.

Falls somewhere between Hero's Downfall and Ruinous Path. The question is whether I want three versions of the effect or it just straight up replaces Path.

Quote from Metamind »

Falls somewhere between Hero's Downfall and Ruinous Path. The question is whether I want three versions of the effect or it just straight up replaces Path.

Agreed. That's the same question I'm asking myself...

This will replace Ruinous Path for me at 450.

I don't think the cube need 3 of them, even at 630 of size. It will replace Ruinous Path in ours.

Quote from Zetsu_Sensei »

I don't think the cube need 3 of them, even at 630 of size. It will replace Ruinous Path in ours.

I believe I'm in this camp but I've learned not to worry too much about cuts until the entire set is spoiled. I've been so sure about a cut only to eat my words when something else is spoiled the next day.

Edit: Just a note that I don't think I ever saw ruinous path cast for its awaken cost in my cube. Seen it in other non-powered cubes.

Seems really good, it took me a while to get over the inefficiency of the aftermath (and being sorcery kinda sucks) but, like the flashback cards, the value is the fact its there at all.

Cubeable graveyard hate is no joke either, I've had the Mardu Woe-Reaper's ability do some solid work in the past and it just hits creatures; Return gets rid of artifacts against Daretti/welder decks, takes out recurring guys against Smokestack/Braids (or if you are stax it gets a 2 for 1), takes out anything the green player could regrowth/witness for, gets rid of snapcaster targets, shrinks goyfs and just generally messes with alot of gameplans etc.

I think I like it a lot more than ruinous path, with it you need 8 mana to leave up an untapped 4/4 and it doesn't feel like thats gonna happen too often. With Never//Return I think the 2/2 is going to be cast a lot more often as it's much cheaper and doesn't feel as bad to chump block with.

The 2/2 body is also more relevant after you kill your opponent's biggest creature, fwiw.

I'm a wait and see. I play dredbore and Hero's Downfall at 360-450. Downfall becasue it is instant and dredbore for ruthless efficiency.

Ruinous path was in and out at 450 partially because the awaken was rare and I have a 5% cap on walkers. Were I to have more walkers I would have kept it. What I like about path is that it was a great late game rip and it was occasionally something I would manipulate the game to. A 4/4 haste can win the game pretty fast after you take over in a control deck.

Yes the Return part will have the option of being cast more often that the awaken. I just think there a lots of games where I could play return and I won't bother. 4 mana is a ton for this effect. It is far to slow to sneak it in with another spell until late, and it is not even instant speed to allow for a gotcha moment. A 2.2 is not going to spring up late game and take over. It is also much less of a 2 for 1.

Maybe I'm wrong and the average sequence will be kill their 3 drop with the front half, immediately play back half to trade with their 2 drop and you are ahead. It just seems too fair and slow.

I'm currently running Hero's Downfall and Ruinous Path at 400. I like both versions a lot, but this one might be my favourite of the bunch. I'm always happy to see black (and red) cards which carry value from the graveyard, and more incidental graveyard hate and Zombie generation are both good things. The Aftermath mode is of course overcosted, but the front side is not overcosted so that's to be expected. I think Ruinous Path will be my cut for this simply because I probably don't need three of that effect.