This looks pushed enough to make it into 360 lists power level wise. The +1 ability is amazing protection considering the price, even protecting you from cards like Sulfiric Vortex, Goblin Bombardment, Cursed Scroll, Chandra... cards that typically provide reach. A 4/4 for 3 isn't embarrassing either and his ult is FAR from flavour text.
I'll be running this and the the other 3 strong Gideon's (Ally, Jura and Kytheon) and leave it up to the drafters to decide who they want in their deck.
All of 'em! Looking forward to using this Gideon's emblem with a different Gideon in play. Achievement unlocked!
This looks pushed enough to make it into 360 lists power level wise. The +1 ability is amazing protection considering the price, even protecting you from cards like Sulfiric Vortex, Goblin Bombardment, Cursed Scroll, Chandra... cards that typically provide reach. A 4/4 for 3 isn't embarrassing either and his ult is FAR from flavour text.
Didn't notice it was permanent!
Shutting down vortex is a very real interaction.
Good card is good. Not a huge fan of walkers that lack synergy (there's so many of them) but eh, good card is card.
A true successor to Gideon Jura. Planeswalker that doesn't accrue value over time but has a strong board impact for its cost, and can act as a win con.
I'm just pleased that we are making headway towards MY achievement being unlocked, where every 3-5CMC card in my white section is a Gideon!! I know it'll be hard to unseat Armageddon and the like, but WOTC is firmly committed to the Gatewatch, and I have faith that they'll make it happen for me!
Facing down a Gideon Jura after this is going to SUCK. That Gideon is maybe the toughest PW to remove. I think the new card is going to provide some interesting decisions though as to which ability should be played in a given situation. Definitely worth including.
Really weird card. Seems like a better Worship version of Gideon. Really strange design. I'm not in love with it like most of the folks here because he's mostly a 4/4 for 1WW creature. I mean, when you're behind, he's not getting you anywhere and could basicly ended up being a simple life gain card. And plusing him just seems so empty to me since he doesn't have any ceiling ultimate strap to it. He should be good in tight games in which every life point matter though.
Also, I think it's possible that he has been initially, somewhere in the R&D process, design to be a 4-abilities planeswalker. But ultimately ended up being too powerful, so they trim it down to this.
We're still going to test it out, that's for sure. mostly becuase the Gideon sub-theme/sub-game looks interesting. Not sure he's that strong though...
He's a stat monster / Maze of Ith that slots into any white aggro / midrange / control deck and survives every sweeper INCLUDING Balance. This Gideon is insane even before you factor in the Platinum Gideon (TM) ability.
Looks more closer to Kiora, the Crashing Wave to me. What's good about the maze is that it's a free spell (theoretically costing you one land drop and/or 1 mana) that can be use on offense and defense. Maze of Ith is also hard to remove from the game because it's a land. Maze of Ith this is not.
I'm not saying this is bad at all, just that there's overhype about it. Much more closer to an ordinary-to-good walker than a super stellar staple to me.
Kiora 1.0 was really strong. We cut it because there was nearly always only one correct or feasible line of play with it; [+1] up to the ultimate. I think the comparison to Gideon here is fair, but this card offers a lot more viable options I think.
Kiora 1.0 was really strong. We cut it because there was nearly always only one correct or feasible line of play with it; [+1] up to the ultimate. I think the comparison to Gideon here is fair, but this card offers a lot more viable options I think.
Was just purely comparing both [+1] ability. You're right Kiora is a strong walker.
This looks pushed enough to make it into 360 lists power level wise. The +1 ability is amazing protection considering the price, even protecting you from cards like Sulfiric Vortex, Goblin Bombardment, Cursed Scroll, Chandra... cards that typically provide reach. A 4/4 for 3 isn't embarrassing either and his ult is FAR from flavour text.
Didn't notice it was permanent!
Shutting down vortex is a very real interaction.
Good card is good. Not a huge fan of walkers that lack synergy (there's so many of them) but eh, good card is card.
A true successor to Gideon Jura. Planeswalker that doesn't accrue value over time but has a strong board impact for its cost, and can act as a win con.
Unfortunately, this won't block Sulfuric Vortex, as the effect lasts until the beginning of you next turn, and vortex triggers on your upkeep
Really weird card. Seems like a better Worship version of Gideon. Really strange design. I'm not in love with it like most of the folks here because he's mostly a 4/4 for 1WW creature. I mean, when you're behind, he's not getting you anywhere and could basicly ended up being a simple life gain card. And plusing him just seems so empty to me since he doesn't have any ceiling ultimate strap to it. He should be good in tight games in which every life point matter though.
Also, I think it's possible that he has been initially, somewhere in the R&D process, design to be a 4-abilities planeswalker. But ultimately ended up being too powerful, so they trim it down to this.
We're still going to test it out, that's for sure. mostly becuase the Gideon sub-theme/sub-game looks interesting. Not sure he's that strong though...
He's a stat monster / Maze of Ith that slots into any white aggro / midrange / control deck and survives every sweeper INCLUDING Balance. This Gideon is insane even before you factor in the Platinum Gideon (TM) ability.
Looks more closer to Kiora, the Crashing Wave to me. What's good about the maze is that it's a free spell (theoretically costing you one land drop and/or 1 mana) that can be use on offense and defense. Maze of Ith is also hard to remove from the game because it's a land. Maze of Ith this is not.
I'm not saying this is bad at all, just that there's overhype about it. Much more closer to an ordinary-to-good walker than a super stellar staple to me.
Yeah, but Maze of Ith also isn't a 4/4 beater that gives you an emblem that says "you can't lose the game because Gideon says so." While the effect is similar to Kiora, Gideon is one less mana, not multicolored, and is in a color that can easily control the board to defend planeswalkers. Also, being able to stop manlands + Sulfuric Vortex is a huge boon for control decks. I think this Gideon is an easy staple based on power level.
I see this more as a control card, where it lands early, giving a lot of breathing room with +1 or emblem, survives your mass removal then attacks for four when you control the game. I can see this being better than Gideon Jura, and I'd make that swap for testing.
I see this more as a control card, where it lands early, giving a lot of breathing room with +1 or emblem, survives your mass removal then attacks for four when you control the game. I can see this being better than Gideon Jura, and I'd make that swap for testing.
I think that's one of the main strengths, is I could reasonably see slotting this into an aggressive or defensive role. The 4/4 is clearly good offensively, and the other abilities are clear good defensively, and costing 3 is good for both.
Slots in everything other than combo. Survives my opponent's sweepers in aggro, survives my own sweepers in control. Call me crazy, but this seems like the love child of Gideon and True-Name Nemesis.
Kiora 1.0 was really strong. We cut it because there was nearly always only one correct or feasible line of play with it; [+1] up to the ultimate. I think the comparison to Gideon here is fair, but this card offers a lot more viable options I think.
The funny thing is this line of thinking was why my group loves Kiora 1.0. It gave a really powerful option to an underpowered guild and a lot of Simic and Sultai decks are built with this kind of controlling game in mind.
Didn't notice it was permanent!
Shutting down vortex is a very real interaction.
Unfortunately, it doesn't stop Vortex (unless you want to prevent it from damaging your opponent). Additionally, it doesn't stop any damage sources that can deal damage at will on your own turn (like Cursed Scroll or Hazoret's activated ability, for example) since they can just damage in response to the {+1}. But it does turn off sorcery-speed reach, like the new Chandra and stuff like that.
Most importantly is that this can prevent manland damage, unlike most of white's other removal. This will be important for protecting you (and Gideon) in traditional control decks that can be weak to manlands.
I think I'm just going to jam this in alongside Kytheon, Jura, Ally of Zen, Sun's Champ, and Knight Errand, making this my 6th white walker and 4th Gideon. There's no way I'm going above 6 per main color. This will put me at a solid 33 planeswalkers. If they print any decent planeswalker removal in this set (with this running around, they absolutely should), I'll probably add that in too.
This is definitely a control card. I wouldn't particularly want this in most aggressive decks. It's phenomenal in control, where you just keep ticking it up preventing damage, and eventually get an emblem that effectively gains you a bunch of life that's also tacked onto a win condition.
I actually think it's at its best in midrange, where both the {+1} ability and the emblem effect are just great against threat-light control shells, and being an indestructible 4/4 beatdown creature that's wrath-proof is just absurd. And also playable in aggro, where a wrath-resistant 4/4 beatdown creature for 3 mana is still a good rate, but the {+1} ability also unlocks the ability for your aggressive creatures to attack into bigger midrange bodies. And it's a fine control card too. It's pretty much great in every theater, it seems.
Didn't notice it was permanent!
Shutting down vortex is a very real interaction.
Unfortunately, it doesn't stop Vortex (unless you want to prevent it from damaging your opponent). Additionally, it doesn't stop any damage sources that can deal damage at will on your own turn (like Cursed Scroll or Hazoret's activated ability, for example) since they can just damage in response to the {+1}. But it does turn off sorcery-speed reach, like the new Chandra and stuff like that.
Most importantly is that this can prevent manland damage, unlike most of white's other removal. This will be important for protecting you (and Gideon) in traditional control decks that can be weak to manlands.
Ah, you're right about Vortex. Sticker shock makes me miss things at first glance, kind of embarrassed I missed that : / Oh well, blocking manlands is still huge.
It's pretty much great in every theater, it seems.
This. There might be arguments for where it's best, but outside of like combo there's no real good argument for where it doesn't belong. I'm pretty happy in an aggressive deck attacking with an indestructible 4/4 for 1WW, and I'm pretty happy either preventing damage or preventing losing in control, and I'm pretty happy doing whatever is most important for the midrange builds. All the 'faults' being found seem like stretches, or they ignore other aspects of the cards.
I really dont get why the ultimate should be good in cube ? If your opponent could kill you, he can also just kill gideon and afterwards kill you. Games of Magic are mostly decided by the player taking control over the board and not by some lifepoints, which this interaction essentialy gives you. This new gideon also doesnt create any card-advantage. Its basicly a 4/4 indestructible, which can be killed by creatures. I can see him being good against creaute-light control decks, where he also cant be killed by sorc. speed removal like wrathes. But against creature style aggro and midrange decks he seems just bad to me. I probably would even not play him in normal limited formats, where he can easily be just a healing spell basicly creating card-disadvantage, when you are behind on board.
Multiple Gideon planeswalker cards + Regrowth effects. All Gideons can protect themselves and this makes your opponent focus on Gideon instead of your life points.
Even against creature decks the {+1} ability is useful. It can open up attacks for your other creatures, in addition to insulating yourself (and Gideon) from their biggest threat.
It won't always be good for the reasons you outline, sure, but sometimes they will have to kill that Gideon or at least attempt to, giving you another turn to play cube spells. Then, if he DOESN'T die and you still have the emblem, you keep on +1ing to make killing him that much harder.
Do not forget that you're allowed to have blockers, and you're allowed to draw into your wraths, and you're allowed to throw Gideon Jura onto the board in the window after mini giddy gets killed.
If you think of the situations where he is bad and just look there, then yeah of course you will come to the conclusion he sucks. But I think you're ignoring the massive impact a CMC 3 planes walker that does as much as he does has on the board and game. There are so many scenarios where he will take over when he hits the board in the spot he hits the board, it's kind of absurd.
Also, not playing him in normal limited seems like a MASSIVE mistake. On the play this will most likely pacify their entire offense when it lands t3. And then it's a 4/4 indestructible creature. For 1WW. 3 mana. That is an absolute bomb.
Also, forcing the opponent into needing to kill Gideon before they can win is still a relevant distraction. I can't tell you how many games I've won by ignoring planeswalkers and just attacking the opponent for a couple turns to win. Requiring an additional combat step or two to be able to win because you're forced to kill Gideon first can buy Gideon's controller some critical extra time. Seeing how good the {+2} ability on Gideon Jura has been in practice leads me to think there's definite value for this Gideon's emblem in the cube format. If you can find an open window to create the emblem in such a way that his {+1} ability will be online to protect him while the emblem's out, it will take a lot of effort from the opponent to power through. And very little commitment from you.
All of 'em! Looking forward to using this Gideon's emblem with a different Gideon in play. Achievement unlocked!
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Didn't notice it was permanent!
Shutting down vortex is a very real interaction.
Good card is good. Not a huge fan of walkers that lack synergy (there's so many of them) but eh, good card is card.
A true successor to Gideon Jura. Planeswalker that doesn't accrue value over time but has a strong board impact for its cost, and can act as a win con.
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Looks more closer to Kiora, the Crashing Wave to me. What's good about the maze is that it's a free spell (theoretically costing you one land drop and/or 1 mana) that can be use on offense and defense. Maze of Ith is also hard to remove from the game because it's a land. Maze of Ith this is not.
I'm not saying this is bad at all, just that there's overhype about it. Much more closer to an ordinary-to-good walker than a super stellar staple to me.
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Couldn't they have just made a 3 mana 4/4 white platinum angel. Would be much less hassle
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Was just purely comparing both [+1] ability. You're right Kiora is a strong walker.
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Yeah, but Maze of Ith also isn't a 4/4 beater that gives you an emblem that says "you can't lose the game because Gideon says so." While the effect is similar to Kiora, Gideon is one less mana, not multicolored, and is in a color that can easily control the board to defend planeswalkers. Also, being able to stop manlands + Sulfuric Vortex is a huge boon for control decks. I think this Gideon is an easy staple based on power level.
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I think that's one of the main strengths, is I could reasonably see slotting this into an aggressive or defensive role. The 4/4 is clearly good offensively, and the other abilities are clear good defensively, and costing 3 is good for both.
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The funny thing is this line of thinking was why my group loves Kiora 1.0. It gave a really powerful option to an underpowered guild and a lot of Simic and Sultai decks are built with this kind of controlling game in mind.
Unfortunately, it doesn't stop Vortex (unless you want to prevent it from damaging your opponent). Additionally, it doesn't stop any damage sources that can deal damage at will on your own turn (like Cursed Scroll or Hazoret's activated ability, for example) since they can just damage in response to the {+1}. But it does turn off sorcery-speed reach, like the new Chandra and stuff like that.
Most importantly is that this can prevent manland damage, unlike most of white's other removal. This will be important for protecting you (and Gideon) in traditional control decks that can be weak to manlands.
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Ah, you're right about Vortex. Sticker shock makes me miss things at first glance, kind of embarrassed I missed that : / Oh well, blocking manlands is still huge.
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This. There might be arguments for where it's best, but outside of like combo there's no real good argument for where it doesn't belong. I'm pretty happy in an aggressive deck attacking with an indestructible 4/4 for 1WW, and I'm pretty happy either preventing damage or preventing losing in control, and I'm pretty happy doing whatever is most important for the midrange builds. All the 'faults' being found seem like stretches, or they ignore other aspects of the cards.
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Multiple Gideon planeswalker cards + Regrowth effects. All Gideons can protect themselves and this makes your opponent focus on Gideon instead of your life points.
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Do not forget that you're allowed to have blockers, and you're allowed to draw into your wraths, and you're allowed to throw Gideon Jura onto the board in the window after mini giddy gets killed.
If you think of the situations where he is bad and just look there, then yeah of course you will come to the conclusion he sucks. But I think you're ignoring the massive impact a CMC 3 planes walker that does as much as he does has on the board and game. There are so many scenarios where he will take over when he hits the board in the spot he hits the board, it's kind of absurd.
Also, not playing him in normal limited seems like a MASSIVE mistake. On the play this will most likely pacify their entire offense when it lands t3. And then it's a 4/4 indestructible creature. For 1WW. 3 mana. That is an absolute bomb.
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