Surprised this card hasn't been mentioned here yet. I would imagine most defensive, controlly, or in some cases midrange-y decks would love to have this casually in their command zone. Looking through my list of cube creatures, there is a huge number of cards that get stupid with this. Even something as simple as a 3/3 Sea Gate Oracle is really powerful.
Was just looking to post this... it seems very, very strong to me. Not costing a card and always being in play are HUGE benefits for a build-around like this, since you don't have to worry about the deckbuilding concessions you're making; that 0/3 is always going to be more powerful than that 2/2 no matter what. Super excited to see what this can do.
Interesting design. Being a one-sided effect, only a control deck would want this. Most cube creatures tend to have higher power than toughness, or have equal P/T. Control takes advantage of this since it allows walls to become deadly blockers and removes the damage ceiling from AEtherling / Morphling. It would have been nice to make this effect symmetrical, but that would probably hinder opposing aggro decks too much for free. Personally, I don't think this is a great effect for cube just because of the way that cube creatures P/T are.
How many creatures benefit from this vs. suffer? What creatures would you consider adding for this card? It's super intriguing for all the reasons mentioned; conspiracies are high power and in the right deck this could be absurd. The question is if this deck can consistently show up with what's already available, and if not would the inclusions be worth adding to make it work.
There aren't that many creatures that benefit, but there are a good number that benefit a lot: Wall of Omens, Thing in the Ice, Spellskite, Courser of Kruphix, Wall of Roots, and Sylvan Caryatid become awesome in my cube, and Canal Dredger becomes a real body.
There's no real way to build an aggro or midrange deck around this, so you're either putting this in a control deck to make your blockers kill everything or putting it in a midrange deck where it will only buff a few creatures. I think that's too narrow for me, but it's an entirely reasonable thing to include.
This is a great conspiracy design. We're going to test it for sure, and I expect it will be much liked and stay, even if it doesn't quite get there on pure powerlevel.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
There are very few non-defender cards that get more than a +1/+0 boost from this, the two most relevant ones being Spellskite and Shadowmage Infiltrator.
How many cards in cube actually benefit from this? Wall got defender so I can't even attack with them
There ought to be way more, frankly. The overall P/T ratio rarely gets brought up when it comes to cube design, but it's an important aspect of limited that I think gets lost in the mix. Most limited environments have that ratio significantly weighted towards toughness; even "aggressive" formats like Zendikar and Gatecrash were slightly slanted towards toughness. In most cubes it's vastly slanted towards power; therefore everything just trades, and it makes combat boring and tokens way too powerful. This card seems like a great incentive for people to actually try to mix that ratio up, since starting every game with a virtual Glorious Anthem in play is disgustingly powerful.
There are very few non-defender cards that get more than a +1/+0 boost from this, the two most relevant ones being Spellskite and Shadowmage Infiltrator.
Comprehensive list of creatures that benefit from this from my cube (and some honorable mentions). Many of these cards don't benefit that much since they are typically aggro cards.
WHITE
- Kor Skyfisher
- Wall of Omens
- Brimaz, King of Oreskos
- Exalted Angel
- Hero of Bladehold (actually is a nerf since it negates the effects of Battle cry)
- Restoration Angel
- Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
BLUE
- Enclave Cryptologist
- Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
- Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
- AEtherling
- Consecrated Sphinx
- Spellskite
BLACK
- Drana, Liberator of Malakir
- Liliana, Heretical Healer
- Vampire Nighthawk
- Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
- Tasigur, the Golden Fang
RED
- Monastery Swiftspear
- Feldon of the Third Path
- Hanweir Garrison
GREEN
- Birds of Paradise
- Joraga Treespeaker (only when leveled up)
- Noble Hierarch
- Sylvan Advocate
- Sylvan Caryatid
- Tarmogoyf
- Wall of Blossoms (not technically in my cube anymore)
- Wall of Roots
- Courser of Kruphix
How many cards in cube actually benefit from this? Wall got defender so I can't even attack with them
There ought to be way more, frankly. The overall P/T ratio rarely gets brought up when it comes to cube design, but it's an important aspect of limited that I think gets lost in the mix. Most limited environments have that ratio significantly weighted towards toughness; even "aggressive" formats like Zendikar and Gatecrash were slightly slanted towards toughness. In most cubes it's vastly slanted towards power; therefore everything just trades, and it makes combat boring and tokens way too powerful. This card seems like a great incentive for people to actually try to mix that ratio up, since starting every game with a virtual Glorious Anthem in play is disgustingly powerful.
The toughness vs power interplay comes up more in Pauper Cube design. In a Regular Cube, where sweepers and midrange creatures that can catch you up from behind are plentiful, its important the the aggressive creatures are VERY aggressive and there is less need for creatures that are old good for defense so that often means the power vs. toughness ratio gets slanted heavily towards power. I imagine most aggro decks would really suffer unless you made things like sweepers, good removal and good catch-up creatures very sparse.
When I first saw this card yesterday, I got pretty excited. Such a clean and nice design for a conspiracy. Then I took a cursory glance over the creatures in my cube and lost all of that excitement. There really aren't that many creatures with higher toughness than power and they are pretty spread out over colors and archetypes.
After reading the posts in this thread, I am warming up to the card again. There are a few archetypes that will most likely have more creatures with higher toughness than with higher power. Or creatures with square stats, of course, that will be unaffected either way.
Ux Artifacts
UX Control
GX Ramp
GU Midrange
GW Midrange
All of these can end up with noticeably more p<t creatures than p>t creatures if the drafter pays a little attention. I am fine with my Eternal Witness only acting as a 1/1 if my Tarmogoyf, Sylvan Advocate and Serendib Efreet get virtually +1/+0 for free. And the walls become true defense monsters in the decks that play them. Even my little artifact enablers Renowned Weaponsmith and Grand Architect suddenly fight like champs. And good old Spellskite becomes on of the quickest and most cost-efficient beaters in the whole game.
Hm, unless we get like three more insanely good conspiracies, I think I am going to give Weight Advantage a try.
Personally I love this card. I've never been a big fan of conspiracies – too format warping for the most part – but this does exactly what they should be capable of: generating an entire archetype/draft-strategy. With just one card that's always on!
How many cards in cube actually benefit from this? Wall got defender so I can't even attack with them
There ought to be way more, frankly. The overall P/T ratio rarely gets brought up when it comes to cube design, but it's an important aspect of limited that I think gets lost in the mix. Most limited environments have that ratio significantly weighted towards toughness; even "aggressive" formats like Zendikar and Gatecrash were slightly slanted towards toughness. In most cubes it's vastly slanted towards power; therefore everything just trades, and it makes combat boring and tokens way too powerful. This card seems like a great incentive for people to actually try to mix that ratio up, since starting every game with a virtual Glorious Anthem in play is disgustingly powerful.
Good post, I have been thinking about this recently. I would like to get more 1/3, 2/3, 3/4 creatures into the cube provided they are decent enough and this card is another reason to revisit that.
Surprised this card hasn't been mentioned here yet. I would imagine most defensive, controlly, or in some cases midrange-y decks would love to have this casually in their command zone. Looking through my list of cube creatures, there is a huge number of cards that get stupid with this. Even something as simple as a 3/3 Sea Gate Oracle is really powerful.
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There's no real way to build an aggro or midrange deck around this, so you're either putting this in a control deck to make your blockers kill everything or putting it in a midrange deck where it will only buff a few creatures. I think that's too narrow for me, but it's an entirely reasonable thing to include.
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A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
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There ought to be way more, frankly. The overall P/T ratio rarely gets brought up when it comes to cube design, but it's an important aspect of limited that I think gets lost in the mix. Most limited environments have that ratio significantly weighted towards toughness; even "aggressive" formats like Zendikar and Gatecrash were slightly slanted towards toughness. In most cubes it's vastly slanted towards power; therefore everything just trades, and it makes combat boring and tokens way too powerful. This card seems like a great incentive for people to actually try to mix that ratio up, since starting every game with a virtual Glorious Anthem in play is disgustingly powerful.
Cubetutor Link
But for those who do want to, Genju of the Fields and Forbidding Watchtower are your friends.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
For at least a +2 boost:
Fiend Hunter
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Sidisi's Faithful
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
Augur of Bolas
Omenspeaker
Spellskite
Calcite Snapper
Sea Gate Oracle
Deceiver Exarch
Thieving Magpie
Tradewind Rider
Lu Xun, Scholar General
Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
Consecrated Sphinx
Inkwell Leviathan
Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Prophetic Flamespeaker
Devoted Druid
Ohran Viper
Courser of Kruphix
Brago, King Eternal
Shadowmage Infiltrator
Dragonlord Silumgar
Izzet Staticaster
Wandering Fumarole
Kuldotha Forgemaster
Myr Battlesphere (without tokens)
Seems like blue's the place to be.
Cubetutor Link
WHITE
- Kor Skyfisher
- Wall of Omens
- Brimaz, King of Oreskos
- Exalted Angel
- Hero of Bladehold (actually is a nerf since it negates the effects of Battle cry)
- Restoration Angel
- Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
BLUE
- Enclave Cryptologist
- Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
- Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
- AEtherling
- Consecrated Sphinx
- Spellskite
BLACK
- Drana, Liberator of Malakir
- Liliana, Heretical Healer
- Vampire Nighthawk
- Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
- Tasigur, the Golden Fang
RED
- Monastery Swiftspear
- Feldon of the Third Path
- Hanweir Garrison
GREEN
- Birds of Paradise
- Joraga Treespeaker (only when leveled up)
- Noble Hierarch
- Sylvan Advocate
- Sylvan Caryatid
- Tarmogoyf
- Wall of Blossoms (not technically in my cube anymore)
- Wall of Roots
- Courser of Kruphix
MULTICOLOR
- Deathrite Shaman
- Reflector Mage
- Spell Queller (not in my cube but worth mentioning)
- Psychatog
- Shadowmage Infiltrator
- Dragonlord Silumgar
- Stirring Wildwood
- Shambling Vent
- Trygon Predator
- Wandering Fumarole
COLORLESS
- Myr Battlesphere
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
The toughness vs power interplay comes up more in Pauper Cube design. In a Regular Cube, where sweepers and midrange creatures that can catch you up from behind are plentiful, its important the the aggressive creatures are VERY aggressive and there is less need for creatures that are old good for defense so that often means the power vs. toughness ratio gets slanted heavily towards power. I imagine most aggro decks would really suffer unless you made things like sweepers, good removal and good catch-up creatures very sparse.
After reading the posts in this thread, I am warming up to the card again. There are a few archetypes that will most likely have more creatures with higher toughness than with higher power. Or creatures with square stats, of course, that will be unaffected either way.
Ux Artifacts
UX Control
GX Ramp
GU Midrange
GW Midrange
All of these can end up with noticeably more p<t creatures than p>t creatures if the drafter pays a little attention. I am fine with my Eternal Witness only acting as a 1/1 if my Tarmogoyf, Sylvan Advocate and Serendib Efreet get virtually +1/+0 for free. And the walls become true defense monsters in the decks that play them. Even my little artifact enablers Renowned Weaponsmith and Grand Architect suddenly fight like champs. And good old Spellskite becomes on of the quickest and most cost-efficient beaters in the whole game.
Hm, unless we get like three more insanely good conspiracies, I think I am going to give Weight Advantage a try.
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Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
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Good post, I have been thinking about this recently. I would like to get more 1/3, 2/3, 3/4 creatures into the cube provided they are decent enough and this card is another reason to revisit that.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms: