Nissa's Renewal might be ok as another big ramp card for the decks that want to hardcast 8+ mana cards.
6 mana for a ramp card is a lot, but unlike with cards like Mana Reflection, you actually do something that turn. 7 life is quite a decent amount and should negate a full attack the turn you cast your big ramp card. Even though +3 mana is less than what you would get from Mana Reflection, it should usually be enough of a boost to cast your biggest baddies the next turn. I am strongly considering swapping these two cards.
Also, this costs only a single green and can get you a color or two that you don't have so far. Big ramp decks in my cube are usally 3+ colors, so the fixing of this card is nice. Oh, and it thins your deck, too.
Lastly, the mana boost is harder to remove than a boost that stems from an enchantment or an artifact. You are more vulnerable to "destroy all (but one) lands" effects, but there are usually only 2-3 of those in cube. On the other hand, there are dozens of cards that can destroy your Mirari's Wake and your Gilded Lotus for only a few mana.
I realize that this card is only for cubes that support the BIG ramp deck and even then, it seems only mediocre. Still, due to the lack of good options, I am strongly considering including this card. What do you think?
Maybe I should just swap Mana Reflection for Explosive Vegetation? A third land and 7 life for another 2 is nice though. The 7 life mode has been quite relevant on Primal Command. Maybe I am nuts, but I actually like Renewal.
It's a little different with Primal Command, as you don't always need to use the 7 life mode for the card to be on, but when you *really* need 7 life the option is there and is great. When 7 life isn't relevant at all for Nissa's Renewal, then it's pretty much flavor text instead of being an option like it is with command.
I was actually thinking about posting a SCD about this card as well for all the exact reasons (similarity to Primal Command, Gilded Lotus, Mana Reflection, etc), but never got around to doing it. I think for larger cubes this is a reasonable option to consider, and as I have a very large cube I will likely be playing this card come October.
It's probably a fine card for large cubes that want another way to support super-ramp decks. But I don't think it supplants Mana Reflection from the 6cc ramp slot, and I definitely don't need 2 cards that narrow.
I feel like the phrase "good in larger cubes" gets thrown around too much. I have a 900 card cube and many sections are still pretty tight. There has been a lot of really good cards in the past few years that I've had this cube and it's still hard to find cuts sometimes. There isn't a similar 5 or 6 cost card to cut to put this in but if I wanted it bad enough I'd have to cut either a planeswalker like Nissa, Worldwaker or maybe Stunted Growth but both of those cards are waaaay better than this. Maybe 5 years ago I wouldn't have as much to work with and I might play this card. I'm going to amend the "maybe in larger cubes" to "maybe in larger cubes 5 years ago when there weren't 1,000,000 cubeable cards.
As for the card itself, it just doesn't feel like what a ramp deck wants to do at six mana. It's a big effect but so is Prime Time, Rampaging Baloths, Wurmcoil engine, etc.
I feel like the phrase "good in larger cubes" gets thrown around too much. I have a 900 card cube and many sections are still pretty tight. There has been a lot of really good cards in the past few years that I've had this cube and it's still hard to find cuts sometimes. There isn't a similar 5 or 6 cost card to cut to put this in but if I wanted it bad enough I'd have to cut either a planeswalker like Nissa, Worldwaker or maybe Stunted Growth but both of those cards are waaaay better than this. Maybe 5 years ago I wouldn't have as much to work with and I might play this card. I'm going to amend the "maybe in larger cubes" to "maybe in larger cubes 5 years ago when there weren't 1,000,000 cubeable cards.
As for the card itself, it just doesn't feel like what a ramp deck wants to do at six mana. It's a big effect but so is Prime Time, Rampaging Baloths, Wurmcoil engine, etc.
Agreed that "good in larger cubes" tends to be a fallback where it shouldn't be. Times have changed, and even big cubes often have cards that were considered staples a few years ago but now have to compete with 3 or 4 other contenders. The competition heats up every year.
This isn't a terrible card, and the effect is powerful, but most cubes don't run a 6 mana ramp effect in the first place, and this isn't even the best one. Gaining 7 life doesn't change that. Then again, if there are fools still trying to run Animist's Awakening, this is a definite upgrade for them.
I wasn't trying to imply by the "big cube" comment that it would be auto-playable at a larger cube size. Only that if it were to find a home, it would have to be in a cube that is both larger in size AND looking for an additional 6+cc super-ramp support card. In a deck trying to get multiple 9+ mana cards into play, this isn't the worst effect, because the ramp takes you to the 9-10 mana range on its own, and the life gain can buy a critical turn or two to extend the length of the game. I in no way meant to insinuate that larger cubes should auto-include this or that large cubes are "soft" enough to be able to automatically find room for it. Sorry for any confusion.
Three land is sort of a wash with Gilded Lotus, and I do feel like the lifegain is being undervalued by a lot of people. I think this would be pretty gross at 3GG, but the extra mana is really backbreaking. Certainly won't make it into our cube as is.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
Maybe instead of a big cube, a young cube might be a better descriptor. Most of us on here are culling our cubes out of huge collections of cards, or we have the money to spend to acquire the cards we are after. Some people though are interested in the best of formats, but don't have my 20 years of cards, or thousands of dollars to spend. I don't expect us to start saying every card is cube worthy, but we could try and consider circumstances besides our own. "I'm not going to run this card, but if players trying ramp in your cube are always dying to the aggro decks then maybe this helps."
I'm sure he's heard of proxying, but some people would rather run real copies of less expensive cards that are pretty good than proxies of cards they can't afford that are optimal.
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Three land is sort of a wash with Gilded Lotus, and I do feel like the lifegain is being undervalued by a lot of people. I think this would be pretty gross at 3GG, but the extra mana is really backbreaking. Certainly won't make it into our cube as is.
Big difference: Gilded lotus enters untapped, being able to cast it for 5 mana, then leave up 3 mana removal/counter magic or whatever to make up for your tempo loss is a huge deal.
Going from 5 mana to 3 mana in a turn, instead of 6-0 is astronomical. And gilded lotus is close to being cut @ 450 for me.
Small Difference: Making 3 of any color of mana vs the basic lands you fetch is better.
Obviously gilded lotus being destroy-able is much worse than the resiliency of lands, but it also has synergies with untap effects and artifact stuff.
I think this card would be fringe playable in larger cubes at 5 mana, not gross. I'm only aruging this point because I'm a spoiler drug addict and they aren't giving me anything new to argue about gahhh, come on wizards!!!
So, how would your rank this compared to other monogreen big ramp effects? To me, it seems that this is a real contender for the third spot behind Primeval Titan and Nissa, Worldwaker.
Overall, I feel like this is worse than Mana Reflection. Mana Reflection has several advantages over this:
1) It gives you 6-7 additional mana on the following turn, not just 3, which makes it even easier to cast things like Ulamog or Emrakul, as well as casting X spells
2) If you have mana left over after casting it, it doubles that mana, allowing for an immediate use of it.
Though I guess if you don't have any MEGA SUPER ramp targets, I could see this being a bit better because of the lifegain.
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Though I guess if you don't have any MEGA SUPER ramp targets, I could see this being a bit better because of the lifegain.
I don't see a real incentive to play this if I don't have any mega super ramp targets. If I'm topping off at 8 (i.e. Woodfall/Terrastadon/etc.) for big creatures, then I can prob do better than this at the 6 spot.
I don't see a real incentive to play this if I don't have any mega super ramp targets. If I'm topping off at 8 (i.e. Woodfall/Terrastadon/etc.) for big creatures, then I can prob do better than this at the 6 spot.
Nissa's Renewal might be ok as another big ramp card for the decks that want to hardcast 8+ mana cards.
6 mana for a ramp card is a lot, but unlike with cards like Mana Reflection, you actually do something that turn. 7 life is quite a decent amount and should negate a full attack the turn you cast your big ramp card. Even though +3 mana is less than what you would get from Mana Reflection, it should usually be enough of a boost to cast your biggest baddies the next turn. I am strongly considering swapping these two cards.
Also, this costs only a single green and can get you a color or two that you don't have so far. Big ramp decks in my cube are usally 3+ colors, so the fixing of this card is nice. Oh, and it thins your deck, too.
Lastly, the mana boost is harder to remove than a boost that stems from an enchantment or an artifact. You are more vulnerable to "destroy all (but one) lands" effects, but there are usually only 2-3 of those in cube. On the other hand, there are dozens of cards that can destroy your Mirari's Wake and your Gilded Lotus for only a few mana.
I realize that this card is only for cubes that support the BIG ramp deck and even then, it seems only mediocre. Still, due to the lack of good options, I am strongly considering including this card. What do you think?
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As for the card itself, it just doesn't feel like what a ramp deck wants to do at six mana. It's a big effect but so is Prime Time, Rampaging Baloths, Wurmcoil engine, etc.
Agreed that "good in larger cubes" tends to be a fallback where it shouldn't be. Times have changed, and even big cubes often have cards that were considered staples a few years ago but now have to compete with 3 or 4 other contenders. The competition heats up every year.
This isn't a terrible card, and the effect is powerful, but most cubes don't run a 6 mana ramp effect in the first place, and this isn't even the best one. Gaining 7 life doesn't change that. Then again, if there are fools still trying to run Animist's Awakening, this is a definite upgrade for them.
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If this could seach for any three lands, I would definitely try it out.
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Big difference: Gilded lotus enters untapped, being able to cast it for 5 mana, then leave up 3 mana removal/counter magic or whatever to make up for your tempo loss is a huge deal.
Going from 5 mana to 3 mana in a turn, instead of 6-0 is astronomical. And gilded lotus is close to being cut @ 450 for me.
Small Difference: Making 3 of any color of mana vs the basic lands you fetch is better.
Obviously gilded lotus being destroy-able is much worse than the resiliency of lands, but it also has synergies with untap effects and artifact stuff.
I think this card would be fringe playable in larger cubes at 5 mana, not gross. I'm only aruging this point because I'm a spoiler drug addict and they aren't giving me anything new to argue about gahhh, come on wizards!!!
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I do think it's not bad option for budget large cube. But at that size I would also prefer a lot of dirrent stuff as well.
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1) It gives you 6-7 additional mana on the following turn, not just 3, which makes it even easier to cast things like Ulamog or Emrakul, as well as casting X spells
2) If you have mana left over after casting it, it doubles that mana, allowing for an immediate use of it.
Though I guess if you don't have any MEGA SUPER ramp targets, I could see this being a bit better because of the lifegain.
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I don't see a real incentive to play this if I don't have any mega super ramp targets. If I'm topping off at 8 (i.e. Woodfall/Terrastadon/etc.) for big creatures, then I can prob do better than this at the 6 spot.
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Right. This is awkward because it seems good at ramping to 9-10, but not so much at 11-15, and overkill if you're only going to 7-8. So you'd have to be running a very specific subset of ramp targets, things likeInkwell Leviathan, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger but NOT Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Blightsteel Colossus, Worldspine Wurm, or Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.
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