I'd be comfortable cutting Avalanche Riders to make room for this. I'd be comfortable moving either Hellrider or Hero too depending on size... I find Hellrider/Hero + Koth + FTK to be enough aggro curve toppers for smaller cubes -- considering we also have Bloodbraid and Falkenrath in the multicolour section (and white is never short on options). The 5-drops in red all make for good aggro curve toppers as well.
Could Siege-Gang be a legit cut for it since each actual top tier red 4-drop seems better? The goblin commander is and always has been sweet but he seems to be on the same power level than Chandra's parents.
EDIT : Hope we get to see each planeswalker's parents in that set. Seems like it.
I think this card is good enough to bump out other top-tier red 4-drops that have some redundant options. In cubes small enough not to just run all of them, of course.
I think I cant fit it after all the good 4 drops loke Hero of Oxid Ridge, Hellrider, FTK, or even Chandra Pyromaster. Perhaps avalanche riders could be the cut.
In my artifact cube, though, this is a 100% autoinclude!
I don't know, this card is nice, but siege gang commander was too cute for me at 5, and in the 5 slot the reach provided by conscripts and thundermaw was better.
the reach provided by Hero,Koth and Hellrider is just way better imo.
Avalanche riders could be a cut potentially, but I don't think this is quite good enough to knock out the tier 1 options.
I will be running Hero, FTK and this as my red four drop creatures. Three different creatures doing three different jobs.
Cutting Hellrider seems even crazier than any of the above suggestions, even at 360.
It was a straight choice of Hero of Oxid Ridge and Hellrider for the aggressive four drop slot. They are both about as good as each other, but Hero edged it on art, flavour and and creature type. With red doing as much different stuff as it is now attempting to do, I don't have room for the redundancy at 4 mana when our aggressive decks have many other options there anyhow. Hellrider has been out for a while.
Indeed, Avalanche Riders is much more likely to return since it again does something different to the other four drops. I'll be looking for cuts for it as always.
I will be running Hero, FTK and this as my red four drop creatures. Three different creatures doing three different jobs.
Cutting Hellrider seems even crazier than any of the above suggestions, even at 360.
It was a straight choice of Hero of Oxid Ridge and Hellrider for the aggressive four drop slot. They are both about as good as each other, but Hero edged it on art, flavour and and creature type. With red doing as much different stuff as it is now attempting to do, I don't have room for the redundancy at 4 mana when our aggressive decks have many other options there anyhow. Hellrider has been out for a while.
Indeed, Avalanche Riders is much more likely to return since it again does something different to the other four drops. I'll be looking for cuts for it as always.
Understandable reasoning, but for all the love Hero is getting here, I've always considered it a tier below Hellrider. That card is the crown jewel of red 4-drops for me. Getting to deal direct damage is just such a huge upside.
It's going to be Avalanche Riders for me I think. I understand the argument for cutting either Hero or Hellrider, but I can't bring myself to do it. I am finding more and more reasons to increase my cube size to 540.
I think Koth of the Hammer is also considered an aggressive red four drop, so really we are running two things there. Hellrider may just about edge Hero in many scenarios, but the unusual evasion clause is more interesting (IMO) and has been clutch a couple of times.
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My current opinion of red 4 drops, based on pick preferences from my group.
1. Hellrider
2. Sneak Attack
3. Flametongue Kavu
4. Koth the Hammer
5. Porphorous, God of the Forge
6. Thunderbreak Regeant
7. Daretti, Scrap Savant
8. Ember Swallower
9. Shaman of the Great Hunt
10. Empty the Warrens
11. Hero of Oxid Ridge
12. Avalanche Riders
That is a metric ton of cards to compete against. And I don't think that this card beats any of them, and you have to be a pretty large size cube to need more than 12! I don't think can handle more than 10 in my 450. But the thing I realized when I listed this out is that 4 CMC is the total lynchpin for red archetypes and many archetypes in general.
From that list we have
Reanimator :2
Tokens:5
Aggro:5
Midrange/Fires:3
Wildfire:1
Artifact.dec:1
My classifications could be squishy, but a couple things stand out. I am no longer focusing on fires or wildfire so Ember Swallower can go. I don't really support the artifact dec but daretti needs to stay in for reanimator. The place where there is the most repetition is from Aggro and Tokens, so if want to add the new card I am looking at cutting 2 cards from the following.
Aggro
1. Hellrider
2. Koth
3. Hero of Oxid Ridge
4. Avalance Riders
5. Shaman of the Great Hunt
Tokens
1. Porphorous
2. Hellrider
3. Empty the Warrens
4. Shaman of the Great Hunt
5. Hero of Oxid Ridge
Shaman, Hero, and Hellrider fill the same role in almost all the decks so my least favorite (Hero) is the cut. Aggro decks have the most support outside of 4 and many of the midrange cards cam be a fine curve topper so I feel Avalanche Riders is the least needed. It is also not well liked in my group. Also plenty of cards like Flametongue, and Regent and this new card are fine in aggro, if not game enders.
So I had to kind of bend over backwards and I can just barely squeeze this couple in. I better pick up an agent of bolas and some moxes to make the most of the artifact deck I ma now supporting.
I'm thinking SGC myself. Rather than cut one of my many fours, lowering my curve a tiny bit for what seems like a slight power upgrade is win win to me. I do understand people feeling Hero/Hellrider is redundant and looking there though. When I have to make this choice again that's where I might have to go....
Well sad to have to start cutting morph out so soon when I was hoping to find room for Ashcloud Phoenix. Then again I don't think i've ever seen anyone play a morph in my cube.
I will say that I absolutely hate cards that represent two unique people, but that's just a flavor quibble of course.
I kind of agree, especially since the creature type is "human artificer", not "human artificers".
Is it me or didn't they make a big deal out of getting rid of Lanawar Elves for Elvish Mystic because they were trying to fix this problem. Then we got Anex and Cyanede and then this set where there looks to be multiple multiples. I also don't like the design because they could have just chosen one of the characters and saved the other for another time, or crazy enough, make both of them, and give them some synergy.
EDIT : Hope we get to see each planeswalker's parents in that set. Seems like it.
From what I see, we're going to get 10 legendary creatures (2 in each color): 5 planeswalkers and 5 characters related to their origin stories.
So far we have
WHITE
Gideon / Hixus, Prison Warden (Gideon's mentor)
RED
Chandra / Pia and Kiran Nalaar (Chandra's parents)
GREEN
Nissa / Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen (who knows, but definitely not Nissa's parents, Nissa is from Zendikar, Dwynen is obviously from Lorwyn)
BLACK
Liliana / I'm assuming Kothophed (one of the 4 demons that owns Liliana's soul)
BLUE
Jace / ?????
I'm putting my money on Liliana's brother, since she basically turned him into a Lich. As for Jace, I'm hoping for some weird storyline like Venser going back in time and siring him ;-)
I'm in the hellrider > hero camp. I'm confident, but agree they are close in power.
I do like hero a lot but decided to cut him a while ago after chatting with a couple local mono-red affeciniatos.
Mostly due to the simplified logic of
Ultra cheap curve low/ medium creature count-> many burn spells
Is a better strategy than higher curve + higher creature count.
The target number of 4cc+ finishers in the smaller curve decks is around 2-3
With all the curve finishers in red guilds, as well as 5cc options that have more playability in other archtypes,
I decided 2 dedicated red 4 drop finishers was enough.
I've always been shakey about this as hero is clearly more powerful than many cards I am running. He's on my on deck binder waiting to get another shot.
I'm thinking of cutting Siege-Gang Commander for this; a slight downgrade in power level, but lowering the cost from 5 to 4 makes me think this will see play in more decks.
This card looks like a staple to me.
Siege-Gang has always been a very high quality card and after a little thinking, I don't even think this is that much worse, if at all!
Could Siege-Gang be a legit cut for it since each actual top tier red 4-drop seems better? The goblin commander is and always has been sweet but he seems to be on the same power level than Chandra's parents.
EDIT : Hope we get to see each planeswalker's parents in that set. Seems like it.
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In my artifact cube, though, this is a 100% autoinclude!
the reach provided by Hero,Koth and Hellrider is just way better imo.
Avalanche riders could be a cut potentially, but I don't think this is quite good enough to knock out the tier 1 options.
thats my cube
From what I see, we're going to get 10 legendary creatures (2 in each color): 5 planeswalkers and 5 characters related to their origin stories.
So far we have
WHITE
Gideon / Hixus, Prison Warden (Gideon's mentor)
RED
Chandra / Pia and Kiran Nalaar (Chandra's parents)
GREEN
Nissa / Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen (who knows, but definitely not Nissa's parents, Nissa is from Zendikar, Dwynen is obviously from Lorwyn)
BLACK
Liliana / I'm assuming Kothophed (one of the 4 demons that owns Liliana's soul)
BLUE
Jace / ?????
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On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Cutting Hellrider seems even crazier than any of the above suggestions, even at 360.
Cubetutor Link
It was a straight choice of Hero of Oxid Ridge and Hellrider for the aggressive four drop slot. They are both about as good as each other, but Hero edged it on art, flavour and and creature type. With red doing as much different stuff as it is now attempting to do, I don't have room for the redundancy at 4 mana when our aggressive decks have many other options there anyhow. Hellrider has been out for a while.
Indeed, Avalanche Riders is much more likely to return since it again does something different to the other four drops. I'll be looking for cuts for it as always.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Understandable reasoning, but for all the love Hero is getting here, I've always considered it a tier below Hellrider. That card is the crown jewel of red 4-drops for me. Getting to deal direct damage is just such a huge upside.
Cubetutor Link
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
My current opinion of red 4 drops, based on pick preferences from my group.
1. Hellrider
2. Sneak Attack
3. Flametongue Kavu
4. Koth the Hammer
5. Porphorous, God of the Forge
6. Thunderbreak Regeant
7. Daretti, Scrap Savant
8. Ember Swallower
9. Shaman of the Great Hunt
10. Empty the Warrens
11. Hero of Oxid Ridge
12. Avalanche Riders
That is a metric ton of cards to compete against. And I don't think that this card beats any of them, and you have to be a pretty large size cube to need more than 12! I don't think can handle more than 10 in my 450. But the thing I realized when I listed this out is that 4 CMC is the total lynchpin for red archetypes and many archetypes in general.
From that list we have
Reanimator :2
Tokens:5
Aggro:5
Midrange/Fires:3
Wildfire:1
Artifact.dec:1
My classifications could be squishy, but a couple things stand out. I am no longer focusing on fires or wildfire so Ember Swallower can go. I don't really support the artifact dec but daretti needs to stay in for reanimator. The place where there is the most repetition is from Aggro and Tokens, so if want to add the new card I am looking at cutting 2 cards from the following.
Aggro
1. Hellrider
2. Koth
3. Hero of Oxid Ridge
4. Avalance Riders
5. Shaman of the Great Hunt
Tokens
1. Porphorous
2. Hellrider
3. Empty the Warrens
4. Shaman of the Great Hunt
5. Hero of Oxid Ridge
Shaman, Hero, and Hellrider fill the same role in almost all the decks so my least favorite (Hero) is the cut. Aggro decks have the most support outside of 4 and many of the midrange cards cam be a fine curve topper so I feel Avalanche Riders is the least needed. It is also not well liked in my group. Also plenty of cards like Flametongue, and Regent and this new card are fine in aggro, if not game enders.
So I had to kind of bend over backwards and I can just barely squeeze this couple in. I better pick up an agent of bolas and some moxes to make the most of the artifact deck I ma now supporting.
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http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/23690
I will say that I absolutely hate cards that represent two unique people, but that's just a flavor quibble of course.
I kind of agree, especially since the creature type is "human artificer", not "human artificers".
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Is it me or didn't they make a big deal out of getting rid of Lanawar Elves for Elvish Mystic because they were trying to fix this problem. Then we got Anex and Cyanede and then this set where there looks to be multiple multiples. I also don't like the design because they could have just chosen one of the characters and saved the other for another time, or crazy enough, make both of them, and give them some synergy.
I'm putting my money on Liliana's brother, since she basically turned him into a Lich. As for Jace, I'm hoping for some weird storyline like Venser going back in time and siring him ;-)
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I do like hero a lot but decided to cut him a while ago after chatting with a couple local mono-red affeciniatos.
Mostly due to the simplified logic of
Ultra cheap curve low/ medium creature count-> many burn spells
Is a better strategy than higher curve + higher creature count.
The target number of 4cc+ finishers in the smaller curve decks is around 2-3
With all the curve finishers in red guilds, as well as 5cc options that have more playability in other archtypes,
I decided 2 dedicated red 4 drop finishers was enough.
I've always been shakey about this as hero is clearly more powerful than many cards I am running. He's on my on deck binder waiting to get another shot.
Last Updated 02/07/24
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