I think what he means is that this is not just a 2W Reprisal. It does come with a 3/2 lifelink creature attached to it. No one's looking to put Radiant's Judgment in their list.
The argument is Pretty absurd taken at verbatim, so he's hoping satire.
I assume it was just poor use of language , but getting an extra card out of a card that costs one more to cast is close to the definition of Value... Not the opposite
Hopefullhawk, what you are saying is that it seperate modes are all subpar. Which is true for all cards with more then one mode. The question is how do they add up, when played in reality. This is hard to evaluate at times, because often three subpar modes end up making a crappy card . Or at least too fair for cube. But once in a while the different subpar modes end up forming a good card in real playing situations.
Which one will this be? I am unsure. I do feel a lot of people seem to forget the basic mode of being a 2/1 lifelinker for 1W. Is this a bit pedestrian? Sure, but if unopposed it could win the game if the lifeswing gets out of hand. And once in a while, you just need that a sword bearer right away.
I will see if we can test this in our cube. The question will be, which deck will want this. Not control for sure, not aggro (most likely only sideboad material. So it might end up being a midrange only card and that could be a problem as midrange doesn't need support to work. It just needs on curve cards and power.
I'm not attacking your whole argument, just your sub argument to back up your main argument.
The opposite of value is negative value. That is a strong statement.
You say you already payed 3 mana for a 2/2 then compare its added ability to reprisal in isolation.
The biggest difference is that reprisal costs a card and mana, this guys ability just costs mana.
That's the definition of card advantage, which in most people's eyes is synonymous with value.
I agree that if every mode is super overcosted, value is a squirly term to use. Arguing that this card falls in that region is a separate argument.
But The OPPOSITE of value is.. Absurd
The number of times that this will be mistaken for another morph is very few.
Good. I want my opponent to think my morphs are Hidden Dragonslayers. It keeps them from playing good creatures without me needing to sink any more mana into it. It lightning rods their valuable removal before they can invest in a threat that will lead to them getting blown out. It's "fair" to sink 3 + 2W for a 3/2 lifelinker with a Reprisal strapped to it, but your opponent sure isn't going to feel that way when you turn this face up. They're going to be distraught when this cards activated ability trades up in a big way and I'm left with a relevant body behind.
I'm not willing to pay 3 mana for a 2/2. Nor am I willing to pay 3 mana for Reprisal (and lifelink and +1/+0 on my bear). Nor am I willing to pay 2 for a 2/1 lifelink. But it gets a lot better when all those modes are rolled into one card. I think Reprisal is just the kind of effect I want to be able to sandbag under my face-down creature. And as I said above, I hope my opponent assumes that this is what it is.
I would probably run this and a Banisher Priest/Hunter variant if I had to choose between all three. I run both of the latter now because they are so few-and-far options in between for "187"-white creatures and I like the support the aggressive/defensive sides of that card for both the controlling deck that would want the hunter and the more aggressive deck that wants the priest. If the Dragonslayer stays, I think I'll run Hunter and Dragonslayer as the 'slayer is pretty aggressively statted and there are tricks with the hunter to permanently remove creatures which gives it the nod for me.
I also like this more than the Priest or Hunter, which I found to often to be overcosted and easier to remove Journey to Nowheres, when you cannot attack/block because you cannot afford to lose them. Permanently removing is much better than exile until ~ leaves play, especially considering how many strong ETB effects there are.
I might not play it solely on face value at 450 either. But if the new suite of megamorph cards has you tempted to delve deeper into a morph subtheme (like it has for me), the powerlevel of this card will be appropriate to help support such a theme.
He may surprise me though ...in that it might actually be good enough without a morph theme for smaller cubes. I think the blue and green megamorph creatures may very well be there for 450, whereas 540/630 may be a more appropriate home for the black and white ones (unless a morph theme is being pushed/supported, that is).
The only thing that is keeping me sceptical about the Dragonslayer is the slow factor that he has. What are you doing with it before you can actually paid mana and target something with it? Pretty much a vanilla 2/2 for 3 until that moment. That is sad. The 4 and + power needed is also a point that I'm not sure about. How can this card can be defending you versus low curve agression?
At least he got lifelink, but he still need 2 turns and 6 manas to bring value with that weapon if you don't want it to be only a white Child of Night, which isn't that great, compare to Lone Missionary for example. For now, Dragonslayer has a lot of «?» stamp to it.
I might not play it solely on face value at 450 either. But if the new suite of megamorph cards has you tempted to delve deeper into a morph subtheme (like it has for me), the powerlevel of this card will be appropriate to help support such a theme.
He may surprise me though ...in that it might actually be good enough without a morph theme for smaller cubes. I think the blue and green megamorph creatures may very well be there for 450, whereas 540/630 may be a more appropriate home for the black and white ones (unless a morph theme is being pushed/supported, that is).
This pretty much sums up the way I feel too. I've always loved Morph as a mechanic, and its really nice to be able to support it easily at 2 cards per color.
Not that long ago, if someone had a morph subtheme it went like this:
"What do you have in white?"
"Exalted Angel and Whipcorder"
"How is Whipcorder good enough for cube?"
"It bluffs being an Exalted Angel."
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Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
Sometimes this will feel overcosted and suffer from the "fair" factor. But other times your opponent walking into the trigger could cost them the game. We'll just have to wait and see which mode we get more often.
The fact that he only hit about maximum 20% to 22% of the creature in the cube appears to be too much of a downside. This stat is reduce as well if you are owning some in your Dragonslayer's deck. Not sure about its long-term inclusion. Test should provide more info about it. Have to proxy it!
Going to dredge this topic back up again. I'm running a moderate to high morph theme (3 in blue, 4 in green, 2 in the rest plus Mauler), but I'm having trouble figuring out what to cut for this guy. I think I want to fit him in as a 2-drop, but the competition is pretty rough:
Going to dredge this topic back up again. I'm running a moderate to high morph theme (3 in blue, 4 in green, 2 in the rest plus Mauler), but I'm having trouble figuring out what to cut for this guy. I think I want to fit him in as a 2-drop, but the competition is pretty rough:
I was originally lukewarm on this guy.. but after playing with it a few times now, I'm a believer. The guy is a solid 2-drop and definitely plays better than he looks. If you haven't tried him yet proxy one up and just give him a go.
Funny how you can't just assume that morphed creature is Exalted Angel anymore!
This guy has been great in my Cube so far. I wasn't convinced at first, but in the last 3 Cube drafts alone he killed Dragonlord Atarka twice and made the difference in the game each time he was flipped.
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I assume it was just poor use of language , but getting an extra card out of a card that costs one more to cast is close to the definition of Value... Not the opposite
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Which one will this be? I am unsure. I do feel a lot of people seem to forget the basic mode of being a 2/1 lifelinker for 1W. Is this a bit pedestrian? Sure, but if unopposed it could win the game if the lifeswing gets out of hand. And once in a while, you just need that a sword bearer right away.
I will see if we can test this in our cube. The question will be, which deck will want this. Not control for sure, not aggro (most likely only sideboad material. So it might end up being a midrange only card and that could be a problem as midrange doesn't need support to work. It just needs on curve cards and power.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
The opposite of value is negative value. That is a strong statement.
You say you already payed 3 mana for a 2/2 then compare its added ability to reprisal in isolation.
The biggest difference is that reprisal costs a card and mana, this guys ability just costs mana.
That's the definition of card advantage, which in most people's eyes is synonymous with value.
I agree that if every mode is super overcosted, value is a squirly term to use. Arguing that this card falls in that region is a separate argument.
But The OPPOSITE of value is.. Absurd
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Good. I want my opponent to think my morphs are Hidden Dragonslayers. It keeps them from playing good creatures without me needing to sink any more mana into it. It lightning rods their valuable removal before they can invest in a threat that will lead to them getting blown out. It's "fair" to sink 3 + 2W for a 3/2 lifelinker with a Reprisal strapped to it, but your opponent sure isn't going to feel that way when you turn this face up. They're going to be distraught when this cards activated ability trades up in a big way and I'm left with a relevant body behind.
I'm not willing to pay 3 mana for a 2/2. Nor am I willing to pay 3 mana for Reprisal (and lifelink and +1/+0 on my bear). Nor am I willing to pay 2 for a 2/1 lifelink. But it gets a lot better when all those modes are rolled into one card. I think Reprisal is just the kind of effect I want to be able to sandbag under my face-down creature. And as I said above, I hope my opponent assumes that this is what it is.
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How many other white creatures can actually permanently kill off an opponent's creature before T5?
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He may surprise me though ...in that it might actually be good enough without a morph theme for smaller cubes. I think the blue and green megamorph creatures may very well be there for 450, whereas 540/630 may be a more appropriate home for the black and white ones (unless a morph theme is being pushed/supported, that is).
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At least he got lifelink, but he still need 2 turns and 6 manas to bring value with that weapon if you don't want it to be only a white Child of Night, which isn't that great, compare to Lone Missionary for example. For now, Dragonslayer has a lot of «?» stamp to it.
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This pretty much sums up the way I feel too. I've always loved Morph as a mechanic, and its really nice to be able to support it easily at 2 cards per color.
Not that long ago, if someone had a morph subtheme it went like this:
"What do you have in white?"
"Exalted Angel and Whipcorder"
"How is Whipcorder good enough for cube?"
"It bluffs being an Exalted Angel."
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Of course, I'm referring to the good morphs. And this is certainly one of them.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
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"He always killed a relevant dude and had lifelink, he was great. Kill shots include Shaman of the Great Hunt and Yasova Dragonclaw."
By no means implying that this was responsible for his going 3-0 and it's based on a small sample size of 1 draft, but not a bad first impression.
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My other option is to slot it in as a 3-drop and cut Banisher Priest, which has been fine but unexciting.
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I cut Banisher Priest for it, I like it considerably less than the above two drops
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Funny how you can't just assume that morphed creature is Exalted Angel anymore!