1W for a 2power lifelinker. Upside if you're willing to pay the extra mana, might actually provide some interesting hidden info if you bring back Exalted Angel. Thoughts?
5 mana for a 3/2 lifelinker that destroys a big creature is fairly good value
Originally wasn't a fan, but the more I thought of it...
Quote from wtwlf123 »
I think it's fine. It's the perfect early investment in a body for a late-game trap springing, and it has 50+ targets in my cube that either have 4+ base power or can regularly grow to 4+ power on their own. Unlike other Reprisal effects, this guy's not completely dead if you don't find a timely target, and you can always play it as an on-curve lifelinking beater if that's what the matchup/curve calls for. It's probably the worst of the 4 that got spoiled so far, but I think it's pretty good, actually.
I never played when morph when it was good, so I've never really experienced the feeling of thinking morph creatures are anything but cost super inefficient. I never really liked the idea of Exalted angel being a 7 mana 4/5 with flying and lifelink. a 3 mana 2/2 is extremely bad in the cube environment, and the flip has to be good to make it worthwhile to play. I think the blue and black ones give you 2 for 1's a majority of the time, so I will be trying them out. In more midrange and control heavy cubes I think this is superior to the black version, which is superior to the green version. I know I'll be including(all four) these at least temporarily as I expand my cube from 360-450. I'll also be trying out exalted angel, as public opinion is high on it, and I like letting the current sets heavily influence my cube composition.
I dont think this guy is terrible in a larger cubes that want to run 2 morphs per color. He kills threatening creatures. He definitely isnt good enough for smaller cubes unless they want to run a large morph package.
Everytime someone evaluates a Morph as 3 + X mana, a Leveler as CMC + Y mana, a Monstrous creature as CMC + Z, etc. an Angel cries and God kills a puppy/kitten. C'mon guys, we should know by now that adding up the total mana cost of a card like this is not the right way to do it. That you can split it up over multiple turns matters A LOT.
If this gets played I think depends a lot on whether or not you want to encourage a Morph theme in your Cube.
Everytime someone evaluates a Morph as 3 + X mana, a Leveler as CMC + Y mana, a Monstrous creature as CMC + Z, etc. an Angel cries and God kills a puppy/kitten. C'mon guys, we should know by now that adding up the total mana cost of a card like this is not the right way to do it. That you can split it up over multiple turns matters A LOT.
If this gets played I think depends a lot on whether or not you want to encourage a Morph theme in your Cube.
Almost every single deck you'll face will have 4+ power creatures that you can kill with this guy. And those will be mostly the creatures that you really need to kill. He's certainly weaker than the the other three that we've seen so far, but he is still removal on a stick. I like removal on a stick. While he's too narrow/costly for smaller cubes, he will likely make it in at 600 cards for me.
I think this card is WAY better than people are giving it credit for. Posts like this:
Quote from dschumm »
For 6 mana I want Elpeth
Makes me think you don't understand how to evaluate morph cards or mana investment over multiple turns. This isn't 6 mana any more than Student of Warfare is garbage because a WWW 3/3 first strike is unplayable. Man, Firebolt sure is a really bad Pyrotechnics, huh.
I don't know why they broke the cycle for this. It should have cost 5 like the others, it wouldn't have been too op.
They didn't break the cycle for this. The black one costs 3 to morph too.
..........
This hits 50+ creature cards in my cube. Plus cards that have their power modified by other cards too. If I can flip it, I've killed a 4+ power creature, traded with another creature and gained 3 life at the very least. If my opponent knows I have a Dragonslayer (or is afraid that this is what it could be) they may need to sandbag important big creatures until they can deal with the morph. That has a huge impact on the game, and can prevent your opponent from playing big threats. And if they do play a bigger guy, you can blast it and get a 3-power lifelinker. This card is actually really solid.
The biggest selling point here is the potential for 3 points of lifelink. That was good enough for Seeker to make its way into my 2 drop section, and this has more upside.
I somehow misread it and thought it was 5 to play and flip. 6 is a little steeper, not because I think it's always going to cost 6 mana, but because for a morph with a removal spell attached, I like to consider how much it's actually going to cost to play and flip all in one turn. For most morphs evaluating the total cost isn't particularly fair, but in this case I think it's at least midly relevant.
Not sure it'll make the cut but I'm definitely keeping my eye on it. This guy, Exalted Angel, and the 3 countermagic morphs could make for a very interesting UW section.
I think this card is WAY better than people are giving it credit for. Posts like this:
Quote from dschumm »
For 6 mana I want Elpeth
Makes me think you don't understand how to evaluate morph cards or mana investment over multiple turns. This isn't 6 mana any more than Student of Warfare is garbage because a WWW 3/3 first strike is unplayable. Man, Firebolt sure is a really bad Pyrotechnics, huh.
I don't know why they broke the cycle for this. It should have cost 5 like the others, it wouldn't have been too op.
They didn't break the cycle for this. The black one costs 3 to morph too.
..........
This hits 50+ creature cards in my cube. Plus cards that have their power modified by other cards too. If I can flip it, I've killed a 4+ power creature, traded with another creature and gained 3 life at the very least. If my opponent knows I have a Dragonslayer (or is afraid that this is what it could be) they may need to sandbag important big creatures until they can deal with the morph. That has a huge impact on the game, and can prevent your opponent from playing big threats. And if they do play a bigger guy, you can blast it and get a 3-power lifelinker. This card is actually really solid.
Oh I understand morphs fine, and love the investment value when playing khans limited. But unlike there playing a 3 mana 2/2 is really really bad in my cube. The majority of my cube games end fast enough when people still have cards in hand, playing a morph often eats up a turn where there are lots of other things I would like to do. They don't play like leveling cards at all to me. Those really allow you to squeeze in levels here and there. 3 mana it not often left over end of turn unless I am playing counters or bolt.dec. For me I need morphs to have an amazing front face (Sagu Mauler, Grim Haruspex, Exalted Angel) A 2/1 lifelinker doesn't cut it. If it had evasion like the the other 3 then I would consider it, but being blocked by tokens elves, and owned by dividable damage bum me out.
So maybe I use up my turns 3 and 4, to make this guy and kill something. A solid 2 for 1 right? That only matters if I am actually playing an attrition game. Most aggro decks are trying to play a tempo game to finish things before my opponent can use all their cards. Means this is more of a midrange card to me, but it is bad at blocking. The other option is what some have suggested, looking at it as a 2 drop / 6 drops split card. Nice to give an aggro card a late game mode but both sides are meh to me.
That said I will probably end up trying all of these but I think only the blue will stick at 450.
2-for-1s don't only matter in attrition games. They matter all the time. Killing a 4-power creature and having a 3-power lifelinker left behind is great. The lifelink can recover lost tempo from the 2 turns of play (and recover tempo against aggro), and if you kill a better creature and eat a removal spell (or another creature and gain 3 life) it's really good value. It's a fair card, but it has strong board impact, and can warp the way your opponent curves out if they fear losing their big threat to the trigger.
It's not great in 2-mana mode, but it can be played there if that's what the curve calls for. Don't underestimate the value of creatures that can drop to multiple spots in the curve. And counting it as a 6-mana card (or saying things like "for 6 mana I'd rather have Elspeth") is plain disingenuous, a complete misevaluation, or simply being obtuse.
The black creature also has that 2B cost to flip, but at least with him the trigger is synergystic with his evasion.
Actually, getting a +1/+1 counter is anti-synergistic with the evasion, because it means that more creatures can block it. The black one has "Creatures with power greater than Silumgar Assassin's power can't block it.", so the higher its power, the easier it is to block. The green one gets harder to block to higher its power is, since that's the one who says "Creatures with power less than Den Protector's power can't block it. ".
I can't wait to play with this card. The more we've been brainstorming about it, the more my playgroup is excited to use it. I think the lifelink is going to be pretty relevant, and it has a lot of juicy targets to kill off. Creature removal on legs in white is awesome. Assuming the red piece of the cycle gives us a great reason to try out multiple morph slots in each color, I think this creature will wind up pulling more than its weight. With that being said, the face-down disguising part of the morph mechanic is important to the value of this particular morph, so if the res of the cycle doesn't pan out, it'll be harder to justify its inclusion.
It's not too bad at all. Like the other members of this cycle, the effect is strong and you get a good evasive (or Lifelink, now) body when flipped, but it remains to be seen how clunky paying 3 in the initial installment actually is. The fact that all the 1C bodies are acceptable plays in their own right is absolutely the reason why they are cubeable and that modality is easy to underrate. So far, I may be trying all four. I think the blue and green ones appear to be the strongest so far. Paying two mana more (in installments, if you like) for a 3/2 evasive Eternal Witness? I'm OK with that. Eager to see what the red one brings to the table.
When did not "too bad" become the threshold for cube?
It's all relative.
There are relatively weak cards in my 360, the ones on the block or which are late picks, that would be considered strong or decent at 900 cards. So "not too bad" is neither a ringing endorsement nor a complete dismissal. It's far from a slam dunk. So yeah, there are a bunch of cards I like and run that I'd describe as just decent, and not every card I want to include has to be OMGZ AMZING. I don't even know if I'll run this yet however.
Reprisal is a 1W spell (that also gets around regeneration), so why would you pay 2W for it! That's the opposite of value!
1W for a 2power lifelinker. Upside if you're willing to pay the extra mana, might actually provide some interesting hidden info if you bring back Exalted Angel. Thoughts?
5 mana for a 3/2 lifelinker that destroys a big creature is fairly good value
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
Originally wasn't a fan, but the more I thought of it...
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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thats my cube
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
I can see a baneslayer in preperation for the exalted angel unmorph, followed by this guy for value.
thats my cube
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
If this gets played I think depends a lot on whether or not you want to encourage a Morph theme in your Cube.
I agree. I wish he unmorphed for 2 instead of 3.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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They didn't break the cycle. The black one had a morph cost of 3 mana, too. It's simply not a "tight" cycle.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Makes me think you don't understand how to evaluate morph cards or mana investment over multiple turns. This isn't 6 mana any more than Student of Warfare is garbage because a WWW 3/3 first strike is unplayable. Man, Firebolt sure is a really bad Pyrotechnics, huh.
They didn't break the cycle for this. The black one costs 3 to morph too.
..........
This hits 50+ creature cards in my cube. Plus cards that have their power modified by other cards too. If I can flip it, I've killed a 4+ power creature, traded with another creature and gained 3 life at the very least. If my opponent knows I have a Dragonslayer (or is afraid that this is what it could be) they may need to sandbag important big creatures until they can deal with the morph. That has a huge impact on the game, and can prevent your opponent from playing big threats. And if they do play a bigger guy, you can blast it and get a 3-power lifelinker. This card is actually really solid.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Cubetutor Link
Not sure it'll make the cut but I'm definitely keeping my eye on it. This guy, Exalted Angel, and the 3 countermagic morphs could make for a very interesting UW section.
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
Oh I understand morphs fine, and love the investment value when playing khans limited. But unlike there playing a 3 mana 2/2 is really really bad in my cube. The majority of my cube games end fast enough when people still have cards in hand, playing a morph often eats up a turn where there are lots of other things I would like to do. They don't play like leveling cards at all to me. Those really allow you to squeeze in levels here and there. 3 mana it not often left over end of turn unless I am playing counters or bolt.dec. For me I need morphs to have an amazing front face (Sagu Mauler, Grim Haruspex, Exalted Angel) A 2/1 lifelinker doesn't cut it. If it had evasion like the the other 3 then I would consider it, but being blocked by tokens elves, and owned by dividable damage bum me out.
So maybe I use up my turns 3 and 4, to make this guy and kill something. A solid 2 for 1 right? That only matters if I am actually playing an attrition game. Most aggro decks are trying to play a tempo game to finish things before my opponent can use all their cards. Means this is more of a midrange card to me, but it is bad at blocking. The other option is what some have suggested, looking at it as a 2 drop / 6 drops split card. Nice to give an aggro card a late game mode but both sides are meh to me.
That said I will probably end up trying all of these but I think only the blue will stick at 450.
It's not great in 2-mana mode, but it can be played there if that's what the curve calls for. Don't underestimate the value of creatures that can drop to multiple spots in the curve. And counting it as a 6-mana card (or saying things like "for 6 mana I'd rather have Elspeth") is plain disingenuous, a complete misevaluation, or simply being obtuse.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
RE: Burst Lightning (and other cost inefficient spells made valuable by being modal) ...Flexibility baby!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Actually, it makes his evasion worse.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
It's all relative.
There are relatively weak cards in my 360, the ones on the block or which are late picks, that would be considered strong or decent at 900 cards. So "not too bad" is neither a ringing endorsement nor a complete dismissal. It's far from a slam dunk. So yeah, there are a bunch of cards I like and run that I'd describe as just decent, and not every card I want to include has to be OMGZ AMZING. I don't even know if I'll run this yet however.
If this is satire, it's brilliant.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms: