MTG Salvation

Being playable doesnt mean anything in cube. A lot of cards are playable that dont make it into cube.

Regardless of current playability, anyone still running Broodmate Dragon, Bogardan Hellkite or Hellkite Overlord should seriously, seriously consider the advantages that Dragonlord Atarka provides as replacement. I'll be contemplating it over the next few days as well.

I am at odds with this one. I currently run a pretty uninspiring midrangey Gruul section in Domri, Bloodbraid and Huntmaster. Domri is turning into Xenagos, the Reveler in my next big update meaning three x 4 drops in a 360 cube. I may consider perhaps taking out Huntmaster for a bit and trialling this? Anyone else running a 360 list considering this over the usual Gruul suspects?

Quote from PyreDream »

Regardless of current playability, anyone still running Broodmate Dragon, Bogardan Hellkite or Hellkite Overlord should seriously, seriously consider the advantages that Dragonlord Atarka provides as replacement. I'll be contemplating it over the next few days as well.

I've been thinking about this more as I said I'd replaced Hellkite Overlord with this fella. Overlord still has hate and hits for 8 the same turn that it's reanimated or NO'd into play. I'm having second thoughts.

Being Jund really isn't that big of a downside to Hellkite overlord. I rarely hardcast it and almost always play it in a jund deck anyway, as its the perfect creature for reanimation, natural order, and Sneak attack.

It really depends how much you value smashing for 8 instead of a board-clear or pinpoint walker/creature removal. I like the flexibility, and this:

the perfect creature for reanimation, natural order, and Sneak attack

all holds true for Atarka as well, with the upside of not being a hard-to-cast tricolor card. Time will tell, I suppose. Bogardan Hellkite is one of my favorite creatures for its ETB clause, and getting a Hellkite that's easier to cast, easier to cheat into play, and hits massively harder are all points that are favorable for its inclusion in my cube.

Bogardan Hellkite is one of my favorite creatures for its ETB clause, and getting a Hellkite that's easier to cast, easier to cheat into play, and hits massively harder are all points that are favorable for its inclusion in my cube.

Bogardan Hellkite can hit players, and this card can't. And it also has flash. Both of those things are quite relevant, so I wouldn't be too hasty saying that this hits massively harder on all points. It's likely better where you have access to both colors of mana, but Hellkite does a lot of other stuff.

Hits massively harder means an 8/8 with flying and trample flat out crushes a 5/5 with flying. It's an earlier clock than Hellkite even with burn-to-the-face option, it doesn't get stonewalled by flyers, it's nigh-unkillable in combat, and it trumps titans. When it comes to inclusions for my 7+ drops, I really want them to be titan-killers

The rest of the card text's quality is debatable. And there's the monocolor vs guild debate. But if you want a fatty to play Bo Hellkite's role, Atarka might be worth splashing a color for - or in Broodmate/Overlord's case, losing a color for

How many times is bogarden hellkite hardcast though? I feel like in the cube environment the 8 drop is almost always cheated into playing, making the flash almost irrelevant. Thats how it was when I ran him anyway.

It's not relevant all the time, because it's usually a Sneak Attack dude. But it did get hardcast from time to time, and the flash is a blowout in those situations. But even when being cheated, being able to hit players with the damage has been important. I agree that Atarka is likely better, but there are still some strong selling points for Bogardan Hellkite. That's all I was pointing out.

Quote from hopefulhawkeye »

I think I may cut Tattermunge Maniac for this. I recognize that is a strange choice, but it is my least favorite 2 power 1 drop. I think we will continue to get better 2 power 1 drops in red, and maybe even green over time so while this might leave Red aggro short of critical mass a bit longer it is worth getting this excellent Gruul option in my cube. 7 Mana is easily attained with green as one of the colors, This is a great natural order, sneak attack, or even reanimation target as well and I really don't mind that it can't hit players with it's ETB ability because it is clearing the board for some huge attacks.

I could see making this swap when that critical mass day arrives for green and red, but it seems weird to make this cut in anticipation of future releases.

Doesn't seem weird to me. Last time I updated Idropped reckless waif for sucking, and knew I needed another red 1 drop but just couldn't put the maniac back in. This set gives us Zurgo do it could be a fine time to switch out the maniac for some cubes freeing up a guild space making room for the Dragonlord.

But for my sake if I wanted a fatty in Gruul I will still be tempted on Ruric Thar.

I still need 1 more in red before I can start cutting functional 2-power 1-drops in that color, even after Zurgo. But everybody's saturation requirements are different based on a myriad of factors, and my demand might be higher than others.

I got lucky and pulled a promo foil of Dragonlord Atarka today. I support ramp and reanimation but I'm not running Sneak Attack, Show and Tell, or Natural Order. Does it make sense for me to be looking at adding this?

You should just buy Sneak, Show and Order to better support your Atarka, then.

Seriously now, Atarka looks like a fine ramp target, but if Natural Order'ing her isn't an option I'd just run Bogardan Hellkite instead so it doesn't take a guild slot.

No way this replaces either hellkite for me (Bogardan or Overlord). But I'm not running walkers, so it's ETB ability is more conditional in my meta. If you run a lot of walkers though, I can see this guy being very good. And it's one mana cheaper than the hellkite brothers too, which I think is relevant (7 is much easier than 8 in my experience).

Even if you run walkers, the ability on bogardan hellkite is strictly better to my knowledge.

Quote from Incendiaryspade »

Even if you run walkers, the ability on bogardan hellkite is strictly better to my knowledge.

It is, indeed. In a vacuum, Bogardan's ability is better than Atarka's.

On the other hand, Atarka has a bigger body for one less mana. Even if your opponent has blockers after her ability, she tramples. If your opponent immediately removes the dragon, Bogardan is better. If you get to attack only once, Bogardan is better in most scenarios, but if the opponent has flying blockers totalling 3+ toughness Atarka wins out. If you can attack a second time, Atarka outdamages Bogardan in all cases.
In ramp decks, Atarka can get out earlier, and she can be Natural Order'ed; Bogardan is better when flickering, and that's all.
So, for me, Atarka is the best card overall.

Quote from Incendiaryspade »

Even if you run walkers, the ability on bogardan hellkite is strictly better to my knowledge.

Better, but not strictly.
If your opponent haS multiple walkers hellkite can only hit 1 whereas Atarka can divide between all.

How have people found this card? I haven't had a chance to test her yet,but I really do want another quality fatty in my Cube.

She's been pretty good so far. I've yet to miss Huntmaster after adding her in his place.

I got wrecked by Atarka last night. Came down and ate my Thundermaw, my Thundermaw was ticket to victory but I got out Dragon'd. I don't miss Huntmaster and another place the Gruul ramp deck to sink their mana in to is nice. On a side note, Atarka makes blue bounce spells pretty bad which means if you cant kill him, he is almost better on the battlefield and if you are saying to yourself, an 8/8 flying dragon on the battlefield being a "good" means you are moments from death. Overall this guy has been picked early and never side boarded and hard casting him hasn't been as issue.

This is a really good creature, and exactly what the section needed, IMO.

I've only got three guild spots that I'm using for Bloodbraid, Sarkhan and Xenagos atm. Do you think it would be worthwhile testing Atarka over one of them (probably Xenagos)?

I think it's better than Xenagos, after playing both for quite a bit now. 8/8 flying trample is no joke, and the ETB trigger is just brutal. And it's a nice way to sneak in additional great targets for reanimator, sneak attack and natural order with one slot. And it's a hell of a card to simply ramp into at the top of your midrange curve. VERY nice card.