I have a pretty strong sacrifice theme going in Rakdos, plus Sidisi is a zombie which fits the gravecrawler package. Add to that the fact that black 5 drops are not really very deep and this card is a windmill slam for me.
People get too worked up because a someone does not like a card. There is a night and day difference between a 450 powered and a 720 unpowered. A great card in 720 unpowered can be trash unplayable in 450 powered.
People get too worked up because a someone does not like a card. There is a night and day difference between a 450 powered and a 720 unpowered. A great card in 720 unpowered can be trash unplayable in 450 powered.
That's a great point. I'll even go further and say there is a night and day difference between a 450 powered and many unpowered 450 lists (assuming lower power curve designs). Cards like Jitte, clamp, and other powerful cards drive your format and can make some cards and/or strategies unplayable. It's not better or worse, just different.
More than ever, I think card analysis needs to be done with a lot of context around it. Guys are building diverse cubes now and taking designs in different directions. So it's really not black and white anymore with respect to which cards are good and which are bad. There's still some general rules and what not (many bad cards are always going to be bad even if you try to make them good), but a lot of high powered cards especially narrow ones can be very good or very bad depending on what your cube and players are doing.
The card made my top 20 list, and I recommended it for cubes bigger than mine. I think it's a fine card. Just not for the tightest of powered lists, that's all.
I agree with ahadabans - it's not so easy just to say 'cubeable at 450' and be done with it, anymore. It's not even a case of something like LftL or Steppe Lynx being better at 360, but even the needs and aims of a smaller cube can be different. A card that looks fringe at a larger size might even turn out really necessary in a small cube. That's not even going into vagaries of drafting type and organisation, etc.
On unpowered 450 vs powered 450: Totally agree on cube diversity at different sizes. This will be increasingly true in the future as we get more and more redundancy. Cube owners will get more flexibility on themes and cube specific synergies.
On Standard vs Cube: There is a high correlation for standard performance and cube performance. It's far from 100% but, it's definitly greater than 50%.
In general, when evaluating cards for cube that are present in "good stuff" standard decks. IE not decks built mostly around synergy.
I won't write an essay on this but,
a) mid-ranged value engines are worse in cube than in standard. (they have to compete with busted blue card draw and turn 4 eldrazi)
b) creature removal is less valuable in cube than in standard.
c) artifacts are better in cube than in standard. (assuming standard format isnt artifact based)
d) artifact desctruction is MUCH better in cube than in standard.
e) non-creature permenant interaction is more important in cube than in standard.
f) cheap agressive creatures are better in cube than in standard. Ie 2/1's for 1.
g) midranged creatures are worse in cube than in standard.
h) powerful synergy dependent creatures are worse in cube than in standard, unless their synergy is highly supported in cube.
By these postulates, I'd say G and H apply to sidisi. But my speculation is that she can be built around often enough in cube. I also think demonic tutor effects are sick in a powered cube, where the best card in your deck can be miles better than the second best card.
I'll have to test to be sure, but initial poor impressions by forum members have reduced my optimism.
I'm not sure you can make that many generalizations about cube versus standard honestly. At least half of what you listed doesn't apply to my cube environment. I know my cube is more fringe than mainstream though, so that's certainly a factor.
My cube is heavily midrange and synergy based. That's what guys in my group like building and we play a lot of multi-player too, so traditional aggro really doesn't work here (hence generic 2/1's for 1 are not highly valued). Removal is more important in my cube because you have to break up busted synergy plays or you just lose. I would say removal in my meta is just as important as standard, if not more so.
I'm also not running a lot of powerful cards (no swords, jitte, clamp, ridiculously OP stuff such as balance, fast artifact mana - sol rings and what not, etc), nor do I run any walkers, nor am I running many of the powerful control finishers (titans, wurmcoil, etc.). And I think all this is why Sidisi will likely do very well in my cube while it may be lackluster in many others.
Sorry, I meant high powered small cubes. Your cube is very non standard, so when people make generalizations about common cube environment its barely applies to your cube.
In my local scene there's like 4-5 cubes and all of them fit the criteria I listed. Same with modo holiday cube which is a partial benchmark for high powered cubes.
Obviously midrange creatures become better when people aren't going way over the top At fast speeds.
Removal becomes better the more decks are creature focused. That being said your cubes power level looks lower than standard so I suspect removal quality and quantity is a little less important. (Doesn't mean it's not important)
Artifacts are big in cube if you support artifact.dec , which is not hard to do if you run all fast mana and have a small cube size.
I doubt my cube (or any rare cube) has a power level lower than standard (unless you made a dollar rare cube or something). I'm still running plenty of broken cards that wouldn't see print today. But I get your point.
I had two cube sessions recently (450 Unpowered), and she was a powerhouse in both sessions. The pilots said they always had a creature they didn't mind sacking, mostly due to irrelevance at that point in the game. Whether it was a mana elf that helped power her out early, or a token from one of the various enchantments/PW's, the exploit clause was never an issue. Now I'm not saying she should slot into every black deck all the time, but if you have a few ways to make tokens or have some smaller creatures that might stagnate on the ground, then she should definitely make the final 40. I was very impressed with her performance and the reviews from my players.
Any new thoughts about this card getting tested? Did it perform well?
Seems very nice paired with Liliana Heretical Healer plus any other low cost creature. Cast it, sac something, tutor, reanimate the sacrifice's creature and you end up with a 2/2 zombie, Sidisi, Liliana Defiant Necromancer plus your best card in hand.
She's probably the best of bad options in the 5cc creature section for black. She's been okay. I'll snap cut her for a legit black 5-drop if they ever decide to print one.
Liliana Vess is much worse than sidisi imo. a 4/6 deathtouch is much better than liliana after the first tutor, but liliana has been out of my cube for a long time.
And also I'm pretty sure I've run cards that have been standard duds. Just because something is good in one format doesn't mean it destroys others.
Ha this is why I love reading opinions. I found it difficult to cut certain cards. Sometimes you can't do it on your own. Talking and discussing opens the door. Glad I saw this thread and cutting Vess.
She's probably the best of bad options in the 5cc creature section for black. She's been okay. I'll snap cut her for a legit black 5-drop if they ever decide to print one.
What about Ob Nixilis? I feel like that is the best 5 drop in black as far as finishers go and can be downright abusive.
I currently run shadowborn demon and ob nixilis at 5. I feel they are about the same as Sidisi and just ahead of Bloodgift. If we get another black planeswalker I might slide this in for Ob Nixilis. He gets owned pretty hard by tempo decks and bounce spells. But I ma in no hurry. They will make a black 5 drop that is a staple sooner or later.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
That's a great point. I'll even go further and say there is a night and day difference between a 450 powered and many unpowered 450 lists (assuming lower power curve designs). Cards like Jitte, clamp, and other powerful cards drive your format and can make some cards and/or strategies unplayable. It's not better or worse, just different.
More than ever, I think card analysis needs to be done with a lot of context around it. Guys are building diverse cubes now and taking designs in different directions. So it's really not black and white anymore with respect to which cards are good and which are bad. There's still some general rules and what not (many bad cards are always going to be bad even if you try to make them good), but a lot of high powered cards especially narrow ones can be very good or very bad depending on what your cube and players are doing.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
On Standard vs Cube: There is a high correlation for standard performance and cube performance. It's far from 100% but, it's definitly greater than 50%.
In general, when evaluating cards for cube that are present in "good stuff" standard decks. IE not decks built mostly around synergy.
I won't write an essay on this but,
a) mid-ranged value engines are worse in cube than in standard. (they have to compete with busted blue card draw and turn 4 eldrazi)
b) creature removal is less valuable in cube than in standard.
c) artifacts are better in cube than in standard. (assuming standard format isnt artifact based)
d) artifact desctruction is MUCH better in cube than in standard.
e) non-creature permenant interaction is more important in cube than in standard.
f) cheap agressive creatures are better in cube than in standard. Ie 2/1's for 1.
g) midranged creatures are worse in cube than in standard.
h) powerful synergy dependent creatures are worse in cube than in standard, unless their synergy is highly supported in cube.
By these postulates, I'd say G and H apply to sidisi. But my speculation is that she can be built around often enough in cube. I also think demonic tutor effects are sick in a powered cube, where the best card in your deck can be miles better than the second best card.
I'll have to test to be sure, but initial poor impressions by forum members have reduced my optimism.
Last Updated 02/07/24
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Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
My cube is heavily midrange and synergy based. That's what guys in my group like building and we play a lot of multi-player too, so traditional aggro really doesn't work here (hence generic 2/1's for 1 are not highly valued). Removal is more important in my cube because you have to break up busted synergy plays or you just lose. I would say removal in my meta is just as important as standard, if not more so.
I'm also not running a lot of powerful cards (no swords, jitte, clamp, ridiculously OP stuff such as balance, fast artifact mana - sol rings and what not, etc), nor do I run any walkers, nor am I running many of the powerful control finishers (titans, wurmcoil, etc.). And I think all this is why Sidisi will likely do very well in my cube while it may be lackluster in many others.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
In my local scene there's like 4-5 cubes and all of them fit the criteria I listed. Same with modo holiday cube which is a partial benchmark for high powered cubes.
Obviously midrange creatures become better when people aren't going way over the top At fast speeds.
Removal becomes better the more decks are creature focused. That being said your cubes power level looks lower than standard so I suspect removal quality and quantity is a little less important. (Doesn't mean it's not important)
Artifacts are big in cube if you support artifact.dec , which is not hard to do if you run all fast mana and have a small cube size.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
(CubeTutor & MTGS)
360 Peasant Cube!
Custom Cube
RWU Miracles RWU
Seems very nice paired with Liliana Heretical Healer plus any other low cost creature. Cast it, sac something, tutor, reanimate the sacrifice's creature and you end up with a 2/2 zombie, Sidisi, Liliana Defiant Necromancer plus your best card in hand.
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https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
And also I'm pretty sure I've run cards that have been standard duds. Just because something is good in one format doesn't mean it destroys others.
thats my cube
Yes, but I think Liliana Vess is bad, so that doesn't mean much.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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Original Lili can tutor some sweet stuff, help reanimator and XBOX's version is solidly badass!
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Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
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UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
What about Ob Nixilis? I feel like that is the best 5 drop in black as far as finishers go and can be downright abusive.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Agreed, Ob Nixilis is a cube staple for sure!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!