Interesting aristocrats planeswalker. By himself, he's a bit weak compared to other 3-cmc walkers, but having two of these on the board can be quite nasty by just shaving away your opponent's hand / life total. I don't like this more than Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast in vintage style cubes, but I think this is pretty strong if you support Rakdos aggro / aristocrats and am looking for a new payoff.
Like: 3 cmc PW, you can trade in your worst creature with power >0 for a 2nd copy.
Dislike: None of the abilities are that impactful (although devils do punch above their weight), really don't like that the plus is a punisher mechanic where you will really never get what you want, the average cube deck does not have many demons or devils.
I think this is substantially worse than daretti even in unpowered (daretti gets to + to protect himself). Testable, but not something I think will have staying power unless you have larger than average guild sections.
I agree that Daretti is generally better: floors and ceilings and all that. This planeswalker varies a lot based on circumstances.
Scenario 1: Played on curve, you get a 2-3 loyalty token out of a Bloodsoaked Champion or Kargan Intimidator sort of creature. You have 2 Obs, and you feel pretty good. Plussing twice every turn may just kill them, and you have devils for backup.
Scenario 2: You have no board presence, and need to produce something. You play this turn three for a devil, and pray to stabilize. You don't feel so good, and you wish you had a simple Tibalt, Rakish Instigator instead.
Scenario 3: It's mid-late game, and you have several creatures to choose from. You could sacrifice a high-power creature, but if you did, all you get is another Ob, and your creature was probably better unless you can ultimate. If there's a board stall, double plussing every turn eventually kills them, but that'll take forever and devils aren't winning the game. You feel okay, but something else would be better.
Scenario 4: Pump a creature to 7 power, attack them, sac the creature, ultimate instantly, and either kill them with the 7 damage from the ult or kill them by drawing 7 cards. Feel like a champ.
Scenario 5: You don't play this exactly on curve, and you don't have the sac targets you want. You eek out a little bit of value from this guy with a devil and some plusses, and when it dies you aren't that sad. Or you sac something and do the exact same thing with two of them.
Overall, most of those scenarios are more medium than I was first imagining when I looked at the card. Scenario 1 is not hard to get though, and it's what you're really looking for.
But that's just in terms of goodstuff. As an aristocrats support card, it's pretty sweet from top to bottom. Shame you can't Erratic Portal this to amass an army of Obs.
Think the analysis so far is underestimating Ob here but agree with Mergatroid.
A 3 mana walker that has the ability to make a token copy of itself without costing extra mana is pretty good, especially in BR aggro where you can easily sac a recurring creature with 2/3 power by the time you cast him on turn 3.
I think it's fair to say that this card will fairly often read:
1BR
Create a 1/1 Devil that when it dies, deal 1 to any target.
Each opponent loses 2 life unless they discard a card. You gain 2 life.
Meanwhile, you still have two Planeswalker bodies.
Apparently this is copyable with Esika's Chariot and the copy comes in as non-legendary and whatever the starting loyalty of the token was (ruling was confirmed with the rules manager on Twitter). Pretty cool interaction!
It's hard to accurately evaluate ob nix, but my gut tells me it isn't good.
The +1 punisher option is a big drawback. If you have a blitz fast start, discarding a card probably won't be that punishing and unless it's backed by an agressive start, losing 2 life isn't very punishing. The tempo lost of sacrificing an agressive creature is relevant in those fast starts.
The only scenario where it becomes very good is if you have a creature you can sacrifice AND it doesnt hurt your tempo much to do so AND you can defend him AND/OR the opponent is at low life.
There are certainly some board states he will be very good but there are also many board states he will be very bad.
He's narrow for a planeswalker and he doesn't make up for the narrowness in power.
Care to elaborate? I'm down to 360 and comparing it vs Dreadbore, K-Command and Daretti in Rakdos is a really high bar which is why we didn't test it. What really stood out to you and which of the cards that I listed would you cut to try it?
I think vintage cube might be it's worst format. It's a somewhat grindy card and RB decks with a lot of creautre's tend to be slanted hyper aggressive without an ability to grind.
If you aren't sacrificing a creature it's so so much worse.
That being said, the devil token is a better creature than I realized and it snowballs really quick for a planeswalker of it's cost. The punisher mechanic isn't a big deal if you can threaten hellbent in a couple turns and are pressuring their life total from other angles.
Even though my analysis tells me it's over-rated (format specific power).. It's caused such a fervor from people who've played it, that I expect to be eating my words very soon
i disagree w/ this, you dont want 2 rakdos walkers taking up precious real estate in a tight 360 list. (particularly now that we have Grist as i mentioned above)
@kingneb - although based on the make up of ur 360, ob isnt going to be a really optimal early play b/c it doesnt look like ur supporting black aggro @ all. ideally you want to have a body on the field you can sack when you cast him & you even have very few black 2 drops that i'd want to sack when i cast him...
We don’t run Dreadbore at 720 anymore because there are a lot of effects like that in mono black and red respectively. Multi real estate is a nice place for powerful walkers and spells. Seems like new Ob, Daretti, and K Command will be the top 3 standouts of the section. We have up to 6 Rakdos slots and include Valki, Kroxa, and Rakdos’s Return.
Had a strong feeling that this was better than the initial reception, but I still would not slot this in over Daretti. I'm probably going to slot this in over Dreadbore personally.
I doubt I want to cut K Command or Rakdos Daretti. Can I stand to lose Rakdos Cackler?
Cheers,
rant
I just slot cackler as a red card, but given the number of good aggressive red and black one-drops we've gotten since cackler, I think it's a perfectly safe cut.
We had a Cube event over the weekend, and I saw this in action in a couple decks (one of them was mine). It’s very good. Putting 2 planeswalkers and minimum one creature into play for 3 mana is a lot for the opponent to deal with, and with any amount of board presence you can drain a lot. It does help that we run creatures that are good with this like Scrapheap Scrounger, Skyclave Shade, and Tenacious Underdog. I wouldn’t play Ob in a Cube with zero black aggressive support.
Interesting aristocrats planeswalker. By himself, he's a bit weak compared to other 3-cmc walkers, but having two of these on the board can be quite nasty by just shaving away your opponent's hand / life total. I don't like this more than Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast in vintage style cubes, but I think this is pretty strong if you support Rakdos aggro / aristocrats and am looking for a new payoff.
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Dislike: None of the abilities are that impactful (although devils do punch above their weight), really don't like that the plus is a punisher mechanic where you will really never get what you want, the average cube deck does not have many demons or devils.
I think this is substantially worse than daretti even in unpowered (daretti gets to + to protect himself). Testable, but not something I think will have staying power unless you have larger than average guild sections.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Scenario 1: Played on curve, you get a 2-3 loyalty token out of a Bloodsoaked Champion or Kargan Intimidator sort of creature. You have 2 Obs, and you feel pretty good. Plussing twice every turn may just kill them, and you have devils for backup.
Scenario 2: You have no board presence, and need to produce something. You play this turn three for a devil, and pray to stabilize. You don't feel so good, and you wish you had a simple Tibalt, Rakish Instigator instead.
Scenario 3: It's mid-late game, and you have several creatures to choose from. You could sacrifice a high-power creature, but if you did, all you get is another Ob, and your creature was probably better unless you can ultimate. If there's a board stall, double plussing every turn eventually kills them, but that'll take forever and devils aren't winning the game. You feel okay, but something else would be better.
Scenario 4: Pump a creature to 7 power, attack them, sac the creature, ultimate instantly, and either kill them with the 7 damage from the ult or kill them by drawing 7 cards. Feel like a champ.
Scenario 5: You don't play this exactly on curve, and you don't have the sac targets you want. You eek out a little bit of value from this guy with a devil and some plusses, and when it dies you aren't that sad. Or you sac something and do the exact same thing with two of them.
Overall, most of those scenarios are more medium than I was first imagining when I looked at the card. Scenario 1 is not hard to get though, and it's what you're really looking for.
But that's just in terms of goodstuff. As an aristocrats support card, it's pretty sweet from top to bottom. Shame you can't Erratic Portal this to amass an army of Obs.
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A 3 mana walker that has the ability to make a token copy of itself without costing extra mana is pretty good, especially in BR aggro where you can easily sac a recurring creature with 2/3 power by the time you cast him on turn 3.
I think it's fair to say that this card will fairly often read:
1BR
Create a 1/1 Devil that when it dies, deal 1 to any target.
Each opponent loses 2 life unless they discard a card. You gain 2 life.
Meanwhile, you still have two Planeswalker bodies.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
The +1 punisher option is a big drawback. If you have a blitz fast start, discarding a card probably won't be that punishing and unless it's backed by an agressive start, losing 2 life isn't very punishing. The tempo lost of sacrificing an agressive creature is relevant in those fast starts.
The only scenario where it becomes very good is if you have a creature you can sacrifice AND it doesnt hurt your tempo much to do so AND you can defend him AND/OR the opponent is at low life.
There are certainly some board states he will be very good but there are also many board states he will be very bad.
He's narrow for a planeswalker and he doesn't make up for the narrowness in power.
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Care to elaborate? I'm down to 360 and comparing it vs Dreadbore, K-Command and Daretti in Rakdos is a really high bar which is why we didn't test it. What really stood out to you and which of the cards that I listed would you cut to try it?
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If you aren't sacrificing a creature it's so so much worse.
That being said, the devil token is a better creature than I realized and it snowballs really quick for a planeswalker of it's cost. The punisher mechanic isn't a big deal if you can threaten hellbent in a couple turns and are pressuring their life total from other angles.
Even though my analysis tells me it's over-rated (format specific power).. It's caused such a fervor from people who've played it, that I expect to be eating my words very soon
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@kingneb - although based on the make up of ur 360, ob isnt going to be a really optimal early play b/c it doesnt look like ur supporting black aggro @ all. ideally you want to have a body on the field you can sack when you cast him & you even have very few black 2 drops that i'd want to sack when i cast him...
Cheers,
rant
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I just slot cackler as a red card, but given the number of good aggressive red and black one-drops we've gotten since cackler, I think it's a perfectly safe cut.
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