MTG Salvation

Interesting new mana rock. Too bad you can only have one mana available if you tap out to kick it. Not sure if this unseats any of our mana rocks, but its a nice design. Busted with Tolarian Academy and other metalcraft type strategies.

There are a lot of Manalith variants. This goes alongside the best of them:

Chromatic Lantern
Coalition Relic
Cultivator's Caravan
Skyclave Relic

Then the runners up:

Vessel of Endless Rest
Spinning Wheel
Cryptolith Fragment
Fountain of Ichor

Interesting card!

I think this card competes with Gilded Lotus. Coalition Relic is too good.
Lotus is obviously the more efficient card, but the modality of this card might make it better.
On 3, It's a Darksteel Ingot while for 6 it gives you the same amount of ramp as Lotus but indestructible is a big advantage that makes up for 2 out of the 3 being tapped.


If the tokens came in untapped, I would definitely swap out Gilded Lotus for this, but as is not sure - Gilded Lotus is still maybe slightly better.

This is probably better than guilded lotus, right? They both go in super ramp so the 1 additional mana should not be a huge deal, but you get to make the 3 mana version if stuff isn't going great, it can't be destroyed by most effects in cube that kill artifacts (apart from O-ring effects), and when you make the 6 mana version you get much more flexible mana and even if they do O-ring one you still have 2 left.

Agree that coalition relic is still much better than this card though.


Edit - since the tokens enter tapped, you don't get to follow up with a spell. I don't know why they felt the need to have the tokens ETB tapped. Still think it's probably better than lotus though.

I definitely like Gilded Lotus more, since that card doesn't set you back much in your turn, seeing as you can recoup three of the five mana immediately to play something impactful or have answers in the opponent's turn to other things. I agree with Morphling89 basically.

This is a very good mana rock though (obviously not as good as Relic), I prefer it to Chromatic Lantern and Caravan.

Quote from asmallcat »

This is probably better than guilded lotus, right? They both go in super ramp so the 1 additional mana should not be a huge deal, but you get to make the 3 mana version if stuff isn't going great, it can't be destroyed by most effects in cube that kill artifacts (apart from O-ring effects), and when you make the 6 mana version you get much more flexible mana and even if they do O-ring one you still have 2 left.

Agree that coalition relic is still much better than this card though.


Edit - since the tokens enter tapped, you don't get to follow up with a spell. I don't know why they felt the need to have the tokens ETB tapped. Still think it's probably better than lotus though.

Yeah the ETB thing is why this is unclear.
You can cast gilded lotus and hold up 3 mana for a counterspell or instant, which makes Gilded Lotus effectively 2 mana if you can use it.
Kind of like a much worse Teferi, Hero of Dominaria for control.

But, unlike Gilded Lotus, this can come down two turns earlier and is tougher to remove.

I love the kicker Portion being spread over three indestructible permanents. This will help artifact count matters cards and make it much harder to cleanly deal with. I also like the flexibility of being able to drop this turn 3 as a manalith. I think I’m swapping in this for Gilded Lotus.


As a rules question, the tokens will have CMC 3 since they are copies, correct? Like Pack Rat and devotion?

ya I'm pretty sure they should have 3 cmc

I'm tempted to give it a shot, but not over Gilded Lotus. That card plays nicer with stuff like Welder. I'd rather try to include both.

Card is great imo. Its floor is Darksteel Ingot, and its ceiling is quite awesome with stuff like Tolarian Academy, Urza, etc. I'll definitely be playing it

Hmmm. I wouldn't cut Gilded Lotus or Coalition Relic for this, but maybe Worn Powerstone?

Clearly worse than Relic and powerstone imo, around the level of gilded, better than most other cards mentioned in this thread such as caravan.

Pretty cool ramp to go with

Quote from Mergatroid_Jones »

There are a lot of Manalith variants. This goes alongside the best of them:

Chromatic Lantern
Coalition Relic
Cultivator's Caravan
Skyclave Relic

Then the runners up:

Vessel of Endless Rest
Spinning Wheel
Cryptolith Fragment
Fountain of Ichor

Astral Cornucopia also. And the newish Bonder's Ornament. I think this one is most directly comparable to the cornucopia. Really nice if you're running Planar Cleansing effects. Darksteel Ingot's become rather niche in its old age, and this card can take up the cup. Cornucopia excels when you're playing proliferate or Coretapper.

Very exciting. As much as I'd like another 2-mana rock instead, I think this looks great. People often undervalue flexibility in cube.

I want my mana rocks > 2cmc to produce more than 1 mana. So this feels weak. With kicker 6cmc for an untapped 1 mana is miles weaker then Gilded Lotus’s 5cmc with 3 untapped (just a net cost of 2). Pass for me.

That said, this is going in My artifact cube. Metalcraft, tokens (doubling season!), and indestructible animated artifact creatures.

I think it's better than gilded lotus.. Indestructible is not flavour text on a big mana rock like this.

Having the option of a 3 cmc rock OR a 3x mana 6 mana rock is a pretty big deal relatively.
Bonus points for tolarian academy synergy.

That being said, gilded lotus is not close to be included for me. Curious how it compares to worn power stone... probably worse?

Quote from steve_man »

Quote from happyjosiah »

Very exciting. As much as I'd like another 2-mana rock instead, I think this looks great. People often undervalue flexibility in cube.

It's not like the flexibility is unprecedented, there's already pretty good Manalith variants like Cultivator's Caravan / Bonder's Ornament which are arguably better than this.

That's not really what I mean by flexibility. CC and BO have other modes (drawing cards or attacking) for additional mana commitments on an ongoing basis. I'm refering to flexibility at the time of casting (i.e., to be played either on curve as a Darksteel Ingot or to be played in the late game as an indestructible Gilded Lotus spread over three different permanents.)

The most surprising thing about this discussion to me has been how many people don't think Gilded Lotus is awesome. Love that card.

I like Gilded Lotus more, but I do think this card has some potential. A floor of a Darksteel Ingot seems acceptable when you also have the option of playing an indestructible Gilded Lotus variant spread across 3 permanents for 6. I support super ramp decks AND artifact decks, so this will likely find a home in multiple shells.

Great card, but I also prefer Lotus. Worn Powerstone looks like a better cut to me.

Cheers,
rant

Chromatic Lantern has been on the cutting block for me - with all the 2 drop signets/ talisman coming in, 3 mana ramp is not where you want to be.

Quote from rantipole »

Great card, but I also prefer Lotus. Worn Powerstone looks like a better cut to me.

Cheers,
rant

I was thinking powerstone is better than this. Even though this can ramp harder, and fix for colors, I think ramping for 2 mana at 3 is better than 1 mana at 3 with options to ramp at 6 mana for an additional 3, especially because the tokens enter tapped.

I also like Powerstone better.

I think this card is sweet, and I plan on testing it. But I expect it to be my worst 3+cc mana rock, even if it does stick around.