I'm definitely into these, but not sure where to make room. I currently run guild lands (abur/fetch/dual/2 flex) and then 17 rainbow/colorless lands. I may carve a spot out of the 5 enemy guilds for these, which doesn't feel great, but I can't cut 5 of the 17 colorless/rainbow lands.
As a third option, I could trim some nonland colorless cards, which also doesn't feel great.
I had a passing thought about cutting Terramorphic/Evolving Wilds/Reflecting Pool but quickly dismissed it as cutting those cards felt wrong. The more i think about it cutting the lesser "rainbow" lands for more structured and fetchable lands is interesting.
I hate ETBT lands a lot but these 3 color lands really have my attention. Finding the cuts is the tough part.
Learning toward cutting the following from my 540:
Reflecting Pool
Dust Bowl
Terramorphic Expanse
Evolving Wilds
Grand Coliseum
Grand Coliseum is the one I like best on this list. What I was going for was cutting lands that ETBT and the other two worst lands (Dust Bowl/Reflecting Pool) in my 540. If they complete the cycle I will have to cut from single color sections as I won't have any other room in the gold/colorless sections.
I made this post more about me personally but others are likely looking at the same batch of cards for cuts & it's good to discuss where we're leaning to ensure we all do what is best for our Cubes!
Man lands are good, but not all man lands are created equal. I think I'd rather cut these lower tier man lands than cut five color fixing lands like Evolving Wilds.
I too had a thought about cutting from the rainbow lands section for these, but I too thought it felt wrong.
With our group the signet/talisman cycle doesn't get picked up very often... how crazy is it to consider cutting the five enemy colored signet/talismans for these five lands?
The three blue trilands have been great in drafts so far. The Mardu land has been the least useful. I'm trying to decide on whether we should support all 5.
The three blue trilands have been great in drafts so far. The Mardu land has been the least useful. I'm trying to decide on whether we should support all 5.
I was wondering the same thing. Do you think that the Mardu one is better than Lavaclaw Reaches though?
The three blue trilands have been great in drafts so far. The Mardu land has been the least useful. I'm trying to decide on whether we should support all 5.
I was wondering the same thing. Do you think that the Mardu one is better than Lavaclaw Reaches though?
I personally like Lavaclaw Reaches quite a bit because of its ability to threaten PWs in controlling decks, although I know many here don’t like it. All 10 manlands are better than any other comes-into-play-tapped options in my opinion, even the lower tier ones like Reaches.
I personally like Lavaclaw Reaches quite a bit because of its ability to threaten PWs in controlling decks, although I know many here don’t like it. All 10 manlands are better than any other comes-into-play-tapped options in my opinion, even the lower tier ones like Reaches.
Pretty much my feeling as well. I'd still be running a lot of the manlands but the Horizon lands got printed.
At 465, I just don't feel like have the room nor really the need for the Tricycle lands.
These have been popular in our group - I noticed some folks here aren't running them - is it b/c of the incomplete cycle or the encouragement of 5-color piles, or they're not good enough? Curious to hear where people are at a year later.
These have been popular in our group - I noticed some folks here aren't running them - is it b/c of the incomplete cycle or the encouragement of 5-color piles, or they're not good enough? Curious to hear where people are at a year later.
They're definitely good, I just don't think they're necessary at smaller cube sizes. For me personally 540 is the sweet spot for them. I don't have them in the 480 version of my cube.
The blue ones are much stronger than the non blue ones. I think at 360 or 450, you should only run 2-3 instead of all 5, starting with blue trilands.
To make it work, I just cheat slightly and slot them into a viable guild slot in exchange for another guild card / land like a horizon canopy land (which these are pretty on par with).
For me, the green ones are definitely best because there are more cards that fetch or care about forests than other lands.
For a cube like mine, these are the absolute best lands in magic, including original duals. That's because they have so many interactions, and because of how versatile tri-lands are during the draft process. Plus my cube is WAY slower and a lot larger than most.
Unfortunately, I don't have all five of them, and they're expensive.
These have been awesome for us in a large 720 cube that benefits from a solid density of fixing lands. Since the Mardu triland is the only one missing from the praise above, I’ll mention that I drafted a 3-0 Mardu control deck a couple weeks ago that had fantastic mana partially because of a Mardu triland and a fetch.
We like these so much that I’m confident we’d play all 10 if shard trilands existed. I’m prepared to trim one of each guild dual for 5 shard trilands plus 5 utility lands if and when those are printed.
I run 9 set of dual lands for 720 - which is slightly more than the traditional 8. I'm not too unhappy about any of my dual land cycles and I'm not in a rush to cut any of them.
I think a regular dual land cycle is slightly more playable in theory than a tri land since a Red-Green dual land is playable in both a Jund/ Naya deck, while a Jund tri land is probably only playable in a Jund or 4c deck.
The upside is a completely on color tri land is roughly as good as a two dual lands for a three color deck for fixing purposes.
I'm not sure what percentage of decks would play this land if they only have 2 of the three colors - I suspect this number is closer to 20%.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I run 9 set of dual lands for 720 - which is slightly more than the traditional 8. I'm not too unhappy about any of my dual land cycles and I'm not in a rush to cut any of them.
I think a regular dual land cycle is slightly more playable in theory than a tri land since a Red-Green dual land is playable in both a Jund/ Naya deck, while a Jund tri land is probably only playable in a Jund or 4c deck.
The upside is a completely on color tri land is roughly as good as a two dual lands for a three color deck for fixing purposes.
I'm not sure what percentage of decks would play this land if they only have 2 of the three colors - I suspect this number is closer to 20%.
This surprises me to read. If I'm red/green, I'll almost always play a jund land.
The reason I find trilands so amazing is that a Jund land can get played in a jund deck, a boros deck, a naya deck, a rakdos deck, a 4-5 color deck, etc.. A Jund land is in high demand all over the table in my cube. A red/green land is useful, but in far fewer decks. Trilands also open up drafters to potential splash colors in a way that delights me.
But I do understand that my cube is slower than most.
I run 9 set of dual lands for 720 - which is slightly more than the traditional 8. I'm not too unhappy about any of my dual land cycles and I'm not in a rush to cut any of them.
I think a regular dual land cycle is slightly more playable in theory than a tri land since a Red-Green dual land is playable in both a Jund/ Naya deck, while a Jund tri land is probably only playable in a Jund or 4c deck.
The upside is a completely on color tri land is roughly as good as a two dual lands for a three color deck for fixing purposes.
I'm not sure what percentage of decks would play this land if they only have 2 of the three colors - I suspect this number is closer to 20%.
This surprises me to read. If I'm red/green, I'll almost always play a jund land.
The reason I find trilands so amazing is that a Jund land can get played in a jund deck, a boros deck, a naya deck, a rakdos deck, a 4-5 color deck, etc.. A Jund land is in high demand all over the table in my cube. A red/green land is useful, but in far fewer decks. Trilands also open up drafters to potential splash colors in a way that delights me.
But I do understand that my cube is slower than most.
I agree with this, and I'll add that it's beautiful how a Jund tri-land would make a Marsh flats into a GR fetch in a GR deck. But in general the small splashes made possible by the fetchable tri-lands add so much deck diversity to drafts.
I run 9 set of dual lands for 720 - which is slightly more than the traditional 8. I'm not too unhappy about any of my dual land cycles and I'm not in a rush to cut any of them.
I think a regular dual land cycle is slightly more playable in theory than a tri land since a Red-Green dual land is playable in both a Jund/ Naya deck, while a Jund tri land is probably only playable in a Jund or 4c deck.
The upside is a completely on color tri land is roughly as good as a two dual lands for a three color deck for fixing purposes.
I'm not sure what percentage of decks would play this land if they only have 2 of the three colors - I suspect this number is closer to 20%.
This surprises me to read. If I'm red/green, I'll almost always play a jund land.
The reason I find trilands so amazing is that a Jund land can get played in a jund deck, a boros deck, a naya deck, a rakdos deck, a 4-5 color deck, etc.. A Jund land is in high demand all over the table in my cube. A red/green land is useful, but in far fewer decks. Trilands also open up drafters to potential splash colors in a way that delights me.
But I do understand that my cube is slower than most.
That's interesting - I've found that playing a two color deck aggressive deck with 16 lands, you already have a natural consistency of 82% of each land, and with 2 dual lands, you can go easily up to 89%. (TBH, I'm actually already pretty happy with an 80% consistency for a limited deck and with the London Mulligan rule, this gets even better)
I'm really not in the market for comes into play tapped lands for my two color decks - I've found it fairly easy to pick up a two color land midway. I've found the comes into play tapped is a bigger liability than the color fixing.
The story changes a bit with tri color decks, but I found if you prioritize mana, you can generally draft the deck without much effort given your pool of playables are much higher.
I've found the problem has generally been creature combo players not sure which of the tri color / dual color lanes they should be in to build their combo (in particular aristocrats, Pod, Melira etc.)
Tri lands do have an upside - you can count a tri land as two dual lands in your mana requirement calculations - I could see them becoming more popular if pushing for tri color or even 4 color archetypes. But I believe that there should be a cost associated with playing with a tri color deck - Inconsistencies in Standard, Shock - Fetch Damage in Modern, Wasteland/ Blood Moon in Legacy.
I could see myself giving these cards a try, but I would prefer to errata the Alara cycle with the same cycling text as the tri lands to keep the colors balanced - I'm not a fan of weird erratas or unbalanced cycles, but if I had to pick I would pick the former.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
It does feel awkward that there aren’t allied tri-cycle lands, but there are so many imbalanced cycles in cube. For example the bi-cycle lands are allied only, and if you run those then you have more fetchable allied lands than enemy. The Horizon lands are an awkward 6 out of 10 and are all incredibly good. Rakdos awkwardly has the worst dual set all things considered because of no Horizon land and worst manland. So when you consider all of that, I’m not sure the imbalance of these lands is particularly worse in the aggregate.
The one thing you said in your post “playing a 2-color aggressive deck with 16 lands” - I agree, you don’t want to run a triland in a very aggressive deck, but that’s not what they’re for.
It does feel awkward that there aren’t allied tri-cycle lands, but there are so many imbalanced cycles in cube. For example the bi-cycle lands are allied only, and if you run those then you have more fetchable allied lands than enemy. The Horizon lands are an awkward 6 out of 10 and are all incredibly good. Rakdos awkwardly has the worst dual set all things considered because of no Horizon land and worst manland. So when you consider all of that, I’m not sure the imbalance of these lands is particularly worse in the aggregate.
The one thing you said in your post “playing a 2-color aggressive deck with 16 lands” - I agree, you don’t want to run a triland in a very aggressive deck, but that’s not what they’re for.
I agree with your point about the unbalanced cycles - I will likely balance the tri land cycle if I were playing it, probably with the Alara Shard lands.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
As a third option, I could trim some nonland colorless cards, which also doesn't feel great.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
I hate ETBT lands a lot but these 3 color lands really have my attention. Finding the cuts is the tough part.
Learning toward cutting the following from my 540:
Reflecting Pool
Dust Bowl
Terramorphic Expanse
Evolving Wilds
Grand Coliseum
Grand Coliseum is the one I like best on this list. What I was going for was cutting lands that ETBT and the other two worst lands (Dust Bowl/Reflecting Pool) in my 540. If they complete the cycle I will have to cut from single color sections as I won't have any other room in the gold/colorless sections.
I made this post more about me personally but others are likely looking at the same batch of cards for cuts & it's good to discuss where we're leaning to ensure we all do what is best for our Cubes!
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022
I'm fine with it but definitely looking forward to the finished cycle at some point.
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I think it'll be this as swaps:
Indatha Triome (WBG) --> Shambling Vent
Ketria Triome (GUR) --> Wandering Fumarole
Raugrin Triome (URW) --> Irrigated Farmland
Savai Triome (RWB) --> Lavaclaw Reaches
Zagoth Triome (BGU) --> Fetid Pools
Man lands are good, but not all man lands are created equal. I think I'd rather cut these lower tier man lands than cut five color fixing lands like Evolving Wilds.
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With our group the signet/talisman cycle doesn't get picked up very often... how crazy is it to consider cutting the five enemy colored signet/talismans for these five lands?
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I was wondering the same thing. Do you think that the Mardu one is better than Lavaclaw Reaches though?
I personally like Lavaclaw Reaches quite a bit because of its ability to threaten PWs in controlling decks, although I know many here don’t like it. All 10 manlands are better than any other comes-into-play-tapped options in my opinion, even the lower tier ones like Reaches.
Pretty much my feeling as well. I'd still be running a lot of the manlands but the Horizon lands got printed.
At 465, I just don't feel like have the room nor really the need for the Tricycle lands.
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They're definitely good, I just don't think they're necessary at smaller cube sizes. For me personally 540 is the sweet spot for them. I don't have them in the 480 version of my cube.
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To make it work, I just cheat slightly and slot them into a viable guild slot in exchange for another guild card / land like a horizon canopy land (which these are pretty on par with).
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For a cube like mine, these are the absolute best lands in magic, including original duals. That's because they have so many interactions, and because of how versatile tri-lands are during the draft process. Plus my cube is WAY slower and a lot larger than most.
Unfortunately, I don't have all five of them, and they're expensive.
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We like these so much that I’m confident we’d play all 10 if shard trilands existed. I’m prepared to trim one of each guild dual for 5 shard trilands plus 5 utility lands if and when those are printed.
I think a regular dual land cycle is slightly more playable in theory than a tri land since a Red-Green dual land is playable in both a Jund/ Naya deck, while a Jund tri land is probably only playable in a Jund or 4c deck.
The upside is a completely on color tri land is roughly as good as a two dual lands for a three color deck for fixing purposes.
I'm not sure what percentage of decks would play this land if they only have 2 of the three colors - I suspect this number is closer to 20%.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
This surprises me to read. If I'm red/green, I'll almost always play a jund land.
The reason I find trilands so amazing is that a Jund land can get played in a jund deck, a boros deck, a naya deck, a rakdos deck, a 4-5 color deck, etc.. A Jund land is in high demand all over the table in my cube. A red/green land is useful, but in far fewer decks. Trilands also open up drafters to potential splash colors in a way that delights me.
But I do understand that my cube is slower than most.
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I agree with this, and I'll add that it's beautiful how a Jund tri-land would make a Marsh flats into a GR fetch in a GR deck. But in general the small splashes made possible by the fetchable tri-lands add so much deck diversity to drafts.
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That's interesting - I've found that playing a two color deck aggressive deck with 16 lands, you already have a natural consistency of 82% of each land, and with 2 dual lands, you can go easily up to 89%. (TBH, I'm actually already pretty happy with an 80% consistency for a limited deck and with the London Mulligan rule, this gets even better)
I'm really not in the market for comes into play tapped lands for my two color decks - I've found it fairly easy to pick up a two color land midway. I've found the comes into play tapped is a bigger liability than the color fixing.
The story changes a bit with tri color decks, but I found if you prioritize mana, you can generally draft the deck without much effort given your pool of playables are much higher.
I've found the problem has generally been creature combo players not sure which of the tri color / dual color lanes they should be in to build their combo (in particular aristocrats, Pod, Melira etc.)
Tri lands do have an upside - you can count a tri land as two dual lands in your mana requirement calculations - I could see them becoming more popular if pushing for tri color or even 4 color archetypes. But I believe that there should be a cost associated with playing with a tri color deck - Inconsistencies in Standard, Shock - Fetch Damage in Modern, Wasteland/ Blood Moon in Legacy.
I could see myself giving these cards a try, but I would prefer to errata the Alara cycle with the same cycling text as the tri lands to keep the colors balanced - I'm not a fan of weird erratas or unbalanced cycles, but if I had to pick I would pick the former.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
The one thing you said in your post “playing a 2-color aggressive deck with 16 lands” - I agree, you don’t want to run a triland in a very aggressive deck, but that’s not what they’re for.
I agree with your point about the unbalanced cycles - I will likely balance the tri land cycle if I were playing it, probably with the Alara Shard lands.
I could see myself doing this:
Triome Lands
Sulfur Vent/ Geothermal Crevice - as grixis is a combo color and Jund is usually ramp/ reanimator.
Rith's grove for Naya as this is primarily aggro.
Probably just Alara tapped lands for the other 2?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i