Here are my inclusions. Better than Theros Beyond Death by a little and certainly more interesting. Given this was a wedge set, I was really hoping for a killer Jeskai card to replace what I consider the weakest of the tricclor cards in my cube, but oh well. Not sure cwhat to cut in a lot in some of these cases. Is Lurrus better than Sorin? Kogla or Vivien over Verdurous Gearhulk and Plow Under? Tough choices.
I had a passing thought about cutting Terramorphic/Evolving Wilds/Reflecting Pool but quickly dismissed it as cutting those cards felt wrong.
Your comment is making me reconsider. Cutting the lesser lands for more structured and fetchable lands is interesting.
I hate ETBT lands a lot but these 3 color lands really have my attention. Finding the cuts is the tough part.
Yeah cutting the other CITP lands felt fine, especially since we have fabled passage and prismatic vista for basic fetching now. I've never run reflecting pool so I can't speak to cutting that.
Given this was a wedge set, I was really hoping for a killer Jeskai card to replace what I consider the weakest of the tricclor cards in my cube, but oh well.
Not the best set for cube, but a few cards that are very powerful and should stand the test of time. Lutri is easily in the top 50. Not every day we got a card that breaks into that!
Ranked by my estimation that the card will stay in my cube for over a year.
Auto-Include:
Lutri, The spellchaser
Heartless Act
90%+
Fiend Artisan
75%+
Lurrus of the Dream-Den
35%+
Ethereal Forager
10%-
Vivien Monsters Advocate
Crystalline Giant
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Titanoth Rex
Kogla, the Titan Ape
Not testing, but have my eye on, may test someday:
Lukka, Coppercoat Outcast
Rielle, the Everwise
Shark Typhoon
Gem Razer
Sprite Dragon
Lore Drakkis
Fire prophecy
Luminous Broodmoth (at the moment, persist combo is on the bench)
Slippery bog-bonder
Winota, Joiner of Forces
Given this was a wedge set, I was really hoping for a killer Jeskai card to replace what I consider the weakest of the tricclor cards in my cube, but oh well.
Shark Typhoon IN
Jhessian Thief OUT
It's meme o'clock somewhere! I love the flexibility of Sharknado's 3 modes: cycle, make an X/X flash flyer that draws a card, or a durdly value enchantment. I'm including it because it's strong on its own and memey, but I wish Sharknado fit more neatly into my Cube's blue archetypes of blink, mill, or spells matter. In theory the enchantment mode could fit into the spells matter or the enchantments archetype, but in practice there aren't many situations where you would rather have the six mana enchantment over a flash flying 4/4 that draws a card.
Heartless Act IN
Ultimate Price OUT
I hope this already strong removal spell will generate cool interactions with persist creatures and my Cube's deep +1/+1 counters theme.
Shredded Sails IN
Abrade OUT
Compared to Abrade, Shredded Sails misses out on killing ground creatures, but adding colorless cycling option for when you don't have a high-value target or red mana is extremely strong (outside of Mono-Red). My specific unpowered, artifact light, flyer heavy environment also favors Shredded Sails over Abrade.
Savai Triome IN
Nomad Outpost OUT
Ketria Triome IN
Frontier Bivouac OUT
Zagoth Triome IN
Opulent Palace OUT
Raugrin Triome IN
Mystic Monastery OUT
Indatha Triome IN
Sandsteppe Citadel OUT
Basic landtypes and cycling are both excellent upgrades to the old Trilands. Aside from being fetchable, these will work much better with Vedalken Shackles, Utopia Sprawl, and in theory Koth if anyone played him outside Mono-Red. I'm a little worried that having 5 wedge Triomes and 5 shard Trilands will create undesirable draft incentives (players may hesitate to draft a shard because they know the mana is worse), but on the other hand perfect balance in Cube is overrated. If you love Grixis or it's open, draft Grixis!
Maybe list:
Yorion, Sky Nomad
Neutralize
Fiend Artisan
Skull Prophet
In One Bite
The Ozolith
Mutate: The fun thing about mutate looks to be that you can stack multiple cards with mutate up to get a whole lot of triggers at once. However, to do that in Cube would require a ton of slots and some of the most exciting mutate cards like Vadrok are multicolored, so it's hard to imagine what colors a mutate Cube archetype would focus on. Overall, I think mutate looks awesome for limited but may be a little too parasitic for my Cube.
Edit:
Mythos of Illuna IN
Clever Impersonator OUT
In terms of synergies, sorceries trigger the spells matter cards but Clever Impersonator can be blinked, so to me that’s a wash. What makes Mythos of Illuna a little better than Clever Impersonator is that it can be a mono-blue ramp spell by copying a land. Once in a temur moon the fight might matter too.
Do we know how many C20 cards have yet to be spoiled? I see that Salvation is showing 103 of 322 spoiled, but do we know anything about number of new cards in that group, etc? Wondering if I can hold out hope for a couple more Cube playables or if we're pretty much done.
Do we know how many C20 cards have yet to be spoiled? I see that Salvation is showing 103 of 322 spoiled, but do we know anything about number of new cards in that group, etc? Wondering if I can hold out hope for a couple more Cube playables or if we're pretty much done.
Here is all 71 of them, they've been spoiled for a while
Finding cuts for the lands was extremely difficult, and these may not be the right ones, but I ultimately decided that I couldn't cut five existing lands for them. I'm also still on the fence about Kogla - I love the card, and prefer Carnage Tyrant to Primeval Titan. I'll be interested to see how that swap plays out. Finally, I decided to add Zirda instead of Winota, and to take Sea-Dasher Octopus out for a spin over Cryptologist. I think the dream is to flash this onto Looter il-Kor.
Fifteen cards from one set is a lot. That said, five of them are lands, and most of the rest of these seem like shoo-ins. Picking up this many fancy versions of things is going to be painful, though.
Heartless Act
Lutri, the Spellchaser
Vivien, Monsters' Advocate
Fiend Artisan
Shark Typhoon
Lurrus of the Dream-Den
Zirda, the Dawnmaker
Kogla, the Titan Ape
Luminous Broodmoth
Ethereal Forager
I like the lands in theory, but coming into play tapped requires significant upside to overcome; I'm not certain access to three colors is worth it yet. I'm actively trying to disincentivize my playgroup from 5 color durdle goodstuff, so adding tricolor lands would be a step in the wrong direction.
- Lutri, the Spellchaser
- Lurrus of the Dream-Den
- Heartless Act
- Shark Typhoon
- Vivien, Monsters' Advocate
- Wilt
- Fiend Artisan
- Tri-Lands
Companions will probably end up being banned in my cube, but I at least want to have some fun with them before coming down to a conclusion. I probably don't really NEED the tri-lands at 540, but I might as well try them out.
Lots of great conversation in this thread! We're running a Community Survey designed to see what Cube designers are testing from Ikoria/C20. We did this last set release and summarized the results in an article here - Theros, Beyond Death Community Prospective.
My Cubes - The Busted Cube. A fully functional, almost 100% custom cube. The project started out by asking "What if other colors got cards on the power level of Mana Drain,Ancestral Recall, and Time Walk?" Draft and enjoy!
Haven't done any cube testing since I don't proxy but here's what has changed based off of what I have seen in standard or even Ikoria limited.
Shark Typhoon goes from watching to in. Control decks love instant speed options. Being able to choose between the counter in your hand when you need it or a card-drawing, flash, uncounterable, threat when you don't is great. It's less efficient than Hydroid Krasis, but it has its own upsides and is at least in the same league as Krasis which is saying something.
Lurrus of the Dream-Den goes from testing to in. I don't think the companion clause is going to occur frequently, but even without it I think I prefer the card to Tidehollow Sculler which is my worst Orzhov section card. The hybrid cost provides a lot of flexibility and the lifelink is welcome for black decks.
Luminous Broodmoth goes from testing to in. Anti-wrath tech, boosts aggro, assists combo decks, and also just generally strong. Will gladly be replacing God-Eternal Oketra.
Still undecided on Fiend Artisan. It plays decently enough, but Golgari is stacked with fantastic removal. While I like to diversify my guild sections this might be a little too much on the fair side. My two non-removal cards are life // death which is usually a back up reanimate and the new Garruk which is the PW I have representing the guild. Pulse and Trophy are untouchable, but Abrupt Decay could be the cut if I do run this as well.
Neutralize is worse than I thought. Adding cycling to Cancel still results in a card that is weaker than Supreme Will which is just on the cusp of inclusion into my cube. While Supreme Will will always cost 2U, it is splashable, and getting to choose between Impulse and Mana Leak as the situation calls for is just better than a full priced Cancel or a cantrip.
With all the fuss about companions I'm considering whether I should test more than just the 2 slam-dunks (Lutri and Lurrus). I wonder how Yorion and Zirda will play out. Anyone have any thoughts and experience on the other few?
They're all good. Every one of them is cube playable. The mechanic is broken.
Wait, what? Lutri is obviously an exception, but the others require some due diligence during drafting, so I imagine most of them will not be playable as a companion if they show up mid to late draft. So how is the mechanic broken in cube?
If you just mean having an active companion is broken, I agree with you. But for most of the cards with that keyword it won't be that easy to actually use them as companions, right?
They're all good. Every one of them is cube playable. The mechanic is broken.
Wait, what? Lutri is obviously an exception, but the others require some due diligence during drafting, so I imagine most of them will not be playable as a companion if they show up mid to late draft. So how is the mechanic broken in cube?
If you just mean having an active companion is broken, I agree with you. But for most of the cards with that keyword it won't be that easy to actually use them as companions, right?
Totally agree. Companions as an additional card in hand are obnoxious, but there is a huge gap between that and saying they are "all good" and "cube playable".
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Ethereal Forager
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Definite inclusions:
Heartless Act
Luminous Broodmoth
Lutri, the Spellchaser
Under consideration:
Kogla, the Titan Ape
Vivien, Monster's Advocate
Lurrus of the Dream-Den
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Yeah cutting the other CITP lands felt fine, especially since we have fabled passage and prismatic vista for basic fetching now. I've never run reflecting pool so I can't speak to cutting that.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
You could always try taking Vadrok, Apex of Thunder for a spin?
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Ranked by my estimation that the card will stay in my cube for over a year.
Auto-Include:
Lutri, The spellchaser
Heartless Act
90%+
Fiend Artisan
75%+
Lurrus of the Dream-Den
35%+
Ethereal Forager
10%-
Vivien Monsters Advocate
Crystalline Giant
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Titanoth Rex
Kogla, the Titan Ape
Not testing, but have my eye on, may test someday:
Lukka, Coppercoat Outcast
Rielle, the Everwise
Shark Typhoon
Gem Razer
Sprite Dragon
Lore Drakkis
Fire prophecy
Luminous Broodmoth (at the moment, persist combo is on the bench)
Slippery bog-bonder
Winota, Joiner of Forces
Last Updated 02/07/24
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It's an idea, but it doesn't seem any more attractive than Kykar, Wind's Fury.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Jhessian Thief OUT
It's meme o'clock somewhere! I love the flexibility of Sharknado's 3 modes: cycle, make an X/X flash flyer that draws a card, or a durdly value enchantment. I'm including it because it's strong on its own and memey, but I wish Sharknado fit more neatly into my Cube's blue archetypes of blink, mill, or spells matter. In theory the enchantment mode could fit into the spells matter or the enchantments archetype, but in practice there aren't many situations where you would rather have the six mana enchantment over a flash flying 4/4 that draws a card.
Heartless Act IN
Ultimate Price OUT
I hope this already strong removal spell will generate cool interactions with persist creatures and my Cube's deep +1/+1 counters theme.
Shredded Sails IN
Abrade OUT
Compared to Abrade, Shredded Sails misses out on killing ground creatures, but adding colorless cycling option for when you don't have a high-value target or red mana is extremely strong (outside of Mono-Red). My specific unpowered, artifact light, flyer heavy environment also favors Shredded Sails over Abrade.
Savai Triome IN
Nomad Outpost OUT
Ketria Triome IN
Frontier Bivouac OUT
Zagoth Triome IN
Opulent Palace OUT
Raugrin Triome IN
Mystic Monastery OUT
Indatha Triome IN
Sandsteppe Citadel OUT
Basic landtypes and cycling are both excellent upgrades to the old Trilands. Aside from being fetchable, these will work much better with Vedalken Shackles, Utopia Sprawl, and in theory Koth if anyone played him outside Mono-Red. I'm a little worried that having 5 wedge Triomes and 5 shard Trilands will create undesirable draft incentives (players may hesitate to draft a shard because they know the mana is worse), but on the other hand perfect balance in Cube is overrated. If you love Grixis or it's open, draft Grixis!
Maybe list:
Yorion, Sky Nomad
Neutralize
Fiend Artisan
Skull Prophet
In One Bite
The Ozolith
Mutate: The fun thing about mutate looks to be that you can stack multiple cards with mutate up to get a whole lot of triggers at once. However, to do that in Cube would require a ton of slots and some of the most exciting mutate cards like Vadrok are multicolored, so it's hard to imagine what colors a mutate Cube archetype would focus on. Overall, I think mutate looks awesome for limited but may be a little too parasitic for my Cube.
Edit:
Mythos of Illuna IN
Clever Impersonator OUT
In terms of synergies, sorceries trigger the spells matter cards but Clever Impersonator can be blinked, so to me that’s a wash. What makes Mythos of Illuna a little better than Clever Impersonator is that it can be a mono-blue ramp spell by copying a land. Once in a temur moon the fight might matter too.
Baneslayer Angel -> Luminous Broodmoth
God-Eternal Kefnet -> Shark Typhoon
Go For the Throat -> Heartless Act
Magister of Worth -> Lurrus of the Dream-Den
Deathrite Shaman -> Fiend Artisan
Saheeli, the Gifted -> Lutri, the Spellchaser
Also considering:
Winota, Joiner of Forces
The triome cycle (but not sure how to make room)
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Heartless Act (over Diabolic Edict)
Vivien, Monsters' Advocate (over Plow Under)
Lutri, the Spellchaser (over The Royal Scions)
Fiend Artisan (over Pernicious Deed)
still debating:
Shark Typhoon (not sure what to cut)
Lurrus of the Dream-Den (over Sorin, Lord of Innistrad)
Lutri, the Spellchaser (Electrolyze)
Lurrus of the Dream-Den (Sorin, Lord of Innistrad)
Vadrok, Apex of Thunder (Stonecoil Serpent)
Shark Typhoon (Inkwell Leviathan)
Heartless Act (Liliana's Triumph)
Luminous Broodmoth (Gisela, the Broken Blade)
Kogla, the Titan Ape (Greenwarden of Murasa)
Gemrazer (Yavimaya Elder)
Check out my competitive Ezuri, Claw of Progress primer!
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/articles-podcasts-and-guides/817096-set-p-review-my-top-20-ikoria-lair-of-behemoths
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Here is all 71 of them, they've been spoiled for a while
https://scryfall.com/search?q=s:c20 -is:reprint&order=set
Baneslayer Angel -> Luminous Broodmoth
Enclave Cryptologist -> Sea-Dasher Octopus
God-Eternal Kefnet -> Shark Typhoon
Go For the Throat -> Heartless Act
Primeval Titan -> Kogla, the Titan Ape
Garruk Relentless -> Vivien, Monsters' Advocate
Magister of Worth -> Lurrus of the Dream-Den
Deathrite Shaman -> Fiend Artisan
Saheeli, the Gifted -> Lutri, the Spellchaser
Tajic, Legion's Edge -> Zirda, the Dawnwaker
Unexpectedly Absent -> Indatha Triome
Remand -> Raugrin Triome
Summon the Pack -> Zagoth Triome
Through the Breach -> Savai Triome
Plow Under -> Ketria Triome
Finding cuts for the lands was extremely difficult, and these may not be the right ones, but I ultimately decided that I couldn't cut five existing lands for them. I'm also still on the fence about Kogla - I love the card, and prefer Carnage Tyrant to Primeval Titan. I'll be interested to see how that swap plays out. Finally, I decided to add Zirda instead of Winota, and to take Sea-Dasher Octopus out for a spin over Cryptologist. I think the dream is to flash this onto Looter il-Kor.
Fifteen cards from one set is a lot. That said, five of them are lands, and most of the rest of these seem like shoo-ins. Picking up this many fancy versions of things is going to be painful, though.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Includes, grouped into likelihood to stay
Heartless Act
Lutri, the Spellchaser
Vivien, Monsters' Advocate
Fiend Artisan
Shark Typhoon
Lurrus of the Dream-Den
Zirda, the Dawnmaker
Kogla, the Titan Ape
Luminous Broodmoth
Ethereal Forager
I like the lands in theory, but coming into play tapped requires significant upside to overcome; I'm not certain access to three colors is worth it yet. I'm actively trying to disincentivize my playgroup from 5 color durdle goodstuff, so adding tricolor lands would be a step in the wrong direction.
360 Uncommons only Cube!
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Staff- Lutri, the Spellchaser
- Lurrus of the Dream-Den
- Heartless Act
- Shark Typhoon
- Vivien, Monsters' Advocate
- Wilt
- Fiend Artisan
- Tri-Lands
Companions will probably end up being banned in my cube, but I at least want to have some fun with them before coming down to a conclusion. I probably don't really NEED the tri-lands at 540, but I might as well try them out.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
You can fill out the survey at this link: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfE5pJMBUilzyFaEDOePAJD7Y0CXBH7zhra4NkJPsjLcJBQiw/viewform
Here's my own response to the survey (see the survey for what the numbers mean!)
Vivien, Monster's Advocate - 3
Lutri, the Spellchaser - 3
Gemrazer - 2.5
Kogla, the Titan Ape - 2
Fiend Artisan - 2
Neutralize - 2.5
Shark Typhoon - 3
Lurrus of the Dream-Den - 3
Heartless Act - 3
Jegantha, the Wellspring - 2
Triomes (Zagoth Triome, etc) - 2.5
Regular 450 unpowered cube (with some custom cards) - 450 Unpowered
Shark Typhoon goes from watching to in. Control decks love instant speed options. Being able to choose between the counter in your hand when you need it or a card-drawing, flash, uncounterable, threat when you don't is great. It's less efficient than Hydroid Krasis, but it has its own upsides and is at least in the same league as Krasis which is saying something.
Lurrus of the Dream-Den goes from testing to in. I don't think the companion clause is going to occur frequently, but even without it I think I prefer the card to Tidehollow Sculler which is my worst Orzhov section card. The hybrid cost provides a lot of flexibility and the lifelink is welcome for black decks.
Luminous Broodmoth goes from testing to in. Anti-wrath tech, boosts aggro, assists combo decks, and also just generally strong. Will gladly be replacing God-Eternal Oketra.
Still undecided on Fiend Artisan. It plays decently enough, but Golgari is stacked with fantastic removal. While I like to diversify my guild sections this might be a little too much on the fair side. My two non-removal cards are life // death which is usually a back up reanimate and the new Garruk which is the PW I have representing the guild. Pulse and Trophy are untouchable, but Abrupt Decay could be the cut if I do run this as well.
Neutralize is worse than I thought. Adding cycling to Cancel still results in a card that is weaker than Supreme Will which is just on the cusp of inclusion into my cube. While Supreme Will will always cost 2U, it is splashable, and getting to choose between Impulse and Mana Leak as the situation calls for is just better than a full priced Cancel or a cantrip.
looking forward to collecting some stats on these guys.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
If you just mean having an active companion is broken, I agree with you. But for most of the cards with that keyword it won't be that easy to actually use them as companions, right?
Totally agree. Companions as an additional card in hand are obnoxious, but there is a huge gap between that and saying they are "all good" and "cube playable".