Loads and loads of modes and modes. Every option seems potentially worthwhile.
The only problem with this card is the problem with every guild card. Nobody has room for guild cards. For me this is an easy add, but not one I will seek to acquire.
wish it was like a confluence where you can choose the same mode more than once. but it still has some good flexibility.
99% of the time this is sac and spirit. can hose a graveyard strategy when needed and the late game entwine is also nice. card is pretty solid. guild slot is the tough part.
I originally read this as if it had Confluence wording, not a command. If I could just a mode more than once, I think this card would be bonkers. As is, I think it’s a bit underwhelming. Kolaghan’s Command is great because it’s almost always a 2 for 1, but most of these modes aren’t worth a whole card.
Is this is a slightly different application of entwine than we've seen before?
All previous Entwine cards had only two modes, so their remind text reads "choose both", not "choose all", including at least one other card in Horizons.
Not K-Command, but not bad I don’t think. It does some very real things that card can’t and drops the hammer down against aggro, even if it’s not a powerful card advantage engine.
Base mode of Edict and 1/1 is very weak compared to other Orzhov Cards. You do gain some versatility in GY hate and (sort of) burn/aggro hate. The 6 mana mode seems low impact for the cost. It is way below Kolaghan’s Command and Knight of Autumn’s level of power. I like this less over existing Orzhov (The Vindicates, Sorin, 4 spirits) so it is a pass for me.
I think this probably makes my commander cube but probably falls just a little short in my powered cube. It's too bad too since this card is pretty sweet.
I felt better about this card once I started considering the base mode as Tribute to Hunger, a card that has seen constructed play. It’s not super exciting like you sometimes want your multicolor cards to be, but past the first few slam dunk slots this seems like a solid choice for a guild that could use a few new options.
While this card lacks power is definitely makes up for it in flexibility. I would imagine edict + spirit token will be the most commonly selected modes, but the other two modes work well against other strong archtypes in cube. I can see this card always seeing play if it gets drafted but I don't think it can take the spot of any other Orzhov card in traditional lists, its unfortunate because I do think this card would make some interesting choices.
Doesn't seem great to me. I seem to like edicts less than most so that could be why, but the "base" mode of spirt + edict doesn't do a lot for me. For the full 4WB I'm even more underwhelmed, unless I'm really hosing a deck with one of the modes it just feels worse that other options. Maybe I'm not giving the flexibility enough credit,but its a pass from me,I think if I could choose a mode more than once I would have been a lot more interested.
I'm thinking of testing Kaya's Guile in my cube. I think this has appreciated in value given my current meta. A lot of the best strategies usually involve something like initiative / reanimator / Uro / etc, and this is a very solid card against all of those strategies. This is probably one of the better ways to counter initiative in the early game. Kaya's Guile vs just ruins a solo initiative creature by itself. Even if your opponent has other sac fodder in the early game, it's not too hard to steal initiative and establish board dominance by casting this on your opponent's EOT and then untapping to cast more removal or add to your board presence.
The abilities by themselves don't seem to add up to 3 mana like Kolaghan's Command, but they're quite the silver bullets against a lot of strategies that are pretty dominant right now. Kolaghan's Command ain't stealing initiative, killing TNN, or preventing Uro / Atraxa abuse from the graveyard. An evasive creature strapped to removal / life gain / graveyard hate is surprisingly effective given how aggressive things are now with initiative / graveyard strategies. I don't think this got there for me back when this was released in 2019, but my cube's meta has shifted to the point where every single one of these modes are at their peak usefulness right now as a huge disruptor against the current most dominant strategies.
We've tested this before on two separate occasions (once upon release and again maybe a year or two ago?) and it was disappointing both times. The abilities always just felt below rate at 3cmc regardless of pairing, and unlike a lot of other cube-able modal cards, you find that in quite a few matchups not a single one out the 4 abilities are particularly useful. Against ramp decks, control decks, midrange decks with 1-drops or tokens laying around, etc none of the abilities almost ever do anything worthwhile. I don't think I've ever seen this get entwined before, so I can't speak on that from experience.
I'll always encourage testing new cards and re-trying old ones, so who knows maybe this will preform differently with the advent of initiative creatures/spells, but that's just been my experience.
I'm thinking of testing Kaya's Guile in my cube. I think this has appreciated in value given my current meta. A lot of the best strategies usually involve something like initiative / reanimator / Uro / etc, and this is a very solid card against all of those strategies. This is probably one of the better ways to counter initiative in the early game. Kaya's Guile vs just ruins a solo initiative creature by itself. Even if your opponent has other sac fodder in the early game, it's not too hard to steal initiative and establish board dominance by casting this on your opponent's EOT and then untapping to cast more removal or add to your board presence.
The abilities by themselves don't seem to add up to 3 mana like Kolaghan's Command, but they're quite the silver bullets against a lot of strategies that are pretty dominant right now. Kolaghan's Command ain't stealing initiative, killing TNN, or preventing Uro / Atraxa abuse from the graveyard. An evasive creature strapped to removal / life gain / graveyard hate is surprisingly effective given how aggressive things are now with initiative / graveyard strategies. I don't think this got there for me back when this was released in 2019, but my cube's meta has shifted to the point where every single one of these modes are at their peak usefulness right now as a huge disruptor against the current most dominant strategies.
If it was two flyers, then I think this might have some consideration.
If it was two flyers, then I think this might have some consideration.
Two flyers would've made it pretty strong enough by itself for me. As is, I'm only interested in it as a very specific answer to a very specific metagame. Being able to generate a flyer at instant speed that's strapped to removal is HUGE with initiative running around.
I'm thinking of testing Kaya's Guile in my cube. I think this has appreciated in value given my current meta. A lot of the best strategies usually involve something like initiative / reanimator / Uro / etc, and this is a very solid card against all of those strategies. This is probably one of the better ways to counter initiative in the early game. Kaya's Guile vs just ruins a solo initiative creature by itself. Even if your opponent has other sac fodder in the early game, it's not too hard to steal initiative and establish board dominance by casting this on your opponent's EOT and then untapping to cast more removal or add to your board presence.
The abilities by themselves don't seem to add up to 3 mana like Kolaghan's Command, but they're quite the silver bullets against a lot of strategies that are pretty dominant right now. Kolaghan's Command ain't stealing initiative, killing TNN, or preventing Uro / Atraxa abuse from the graveyard. An evasive creature strapped to removal / life gain / graveyard hate is surprisingly effective given how aggressive things are now with initiative / graveyard strategies. I don't think this got there for me back when this was released in 2019, but my cube's meta has shifted to the point where every single one of these modes are at their peak usefulness right now as a huge disruptor against the current most dominant strategies.
My personal experiences with Kaya's Guile mirror NoScottMescudi's. However, I wanted to support your reasoning for trying out a reactive card that you expect will function well within your metagame. There are less powerful cards that thrive under specific conditions and the more you test out your hypothesis with experiments like this, the better you can understand your environment.
@Steve_man - I noticed in other threads that you generally have a much stronger preference/ density of reanimator support (not a bad thing, just an observation). I personally have noticed a strong reanimator showing in my cube, but if it performed well, I would likely shave weak enablers than provide graveyard hate style counter plays.
I don't know if anyone else shares this sentiment.
I would likely shave weak enablers than provide graveyard hate style counter plays.
I want to play those cards. I'm for more graveyard hate as long as it's not super narrow like Tormod's Crypt or something. Graveyard interaction / counter play should exist as long as they keep printing more ways to abuse the graveyard.
If this card only hosed graveyard decks, I wouldn't be too interested in it. But having game against aggro / initiative / graveyards / etc makes it much more appealing as a versatile anti-meta card / silver bullet to me.
The only problem with this card is the problem with every guild card. Nobody has room for guild cards. For me this is an easy add, but not one I will seek to acquire.
I'm loving all this incidental graveyard hate.
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I would've gladly traded the Entwine for 2 power worth of critters.
However, if it's a full cycle, we might get a really good one in there!
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99% of the time this is sac and spirit. can hose a graveyard strategy when needed and the late game entwine is also nice. card is pretty solid. guild slot is the tough part.
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All previous Entwine cards had only two modes, so their remind text reads "choose both", not "choose all", including at least one other card in Horizons.
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Then again, I'm already satisfied with that Orzhov has to offer already.
This one strikes me as a good card but a slight miss considering its competition.
Edict + 1/1 spirit is a solid base , and entwine as well as the alternative modes add solid situational value.
Excited to see if anything else like it is spoiled in different guilds
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The abilities by themselves don't seem to add up to 3 mana like Kolaghan's Command, but they're quite the silver bullets against a lot of strategies that are pretty dominant right now. Kolaghan's Command ain't stealing initiative, killing TNN, or preventing Uro / Atraxa abuse from the graveyard. An evasive creature strapped to removal / life gain / graveyard hate is surprisingly effective given how aggressive things are now with initiative / graveyard strategies. I don't think this got there for me back when this was released in 2019, but my cube's meta has shifted to the point where every single one of these modes are at their peak usefulness right now as a huge disruptor against the current most dominant strategies.
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I'll always encourage testing new cards and re-trying old ones, so who knows maybe this will preform differently with the advent of initiative creatures/spells, but that's just been my experience.
If it was two flyers, then I think this might have some consideration.
Two flyers would've made it pretty strong enough by itself for me. As is, I'm only interested in it as a very specific answer to a very specific metagame. Being able to generate a flyer at instant speed that's strapped to removal is HUGE with initiative running around.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
My personal experiences with Kaya's Guile mirror NoScottMescudi's. However, I wanted to support your reasoning for trying out a reactive card that you expect will function well within your metagame. There are less powerful cards that thrive under specific conditions and the more you test out your hypothesis with experiments like this, the better you can understand your environment.
Last Updated 02/07/24
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I don't know if anyone else shares this sentiment.
I want to play those cards. I'm for more graveyard hate as long as it's not super narrow like Tormod's Crypt or something. Graveyard interaction / counter play should exist as long as they keep printing more ways to abuse the graveyard.
If this card only hosed graveyard decks, I wouldn't be too interested in it. But having game against aggro / initiative / graveyards / etc makes it much more appealing as a versatile anti-meta card / silver bullet to me.
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