MTG Salvation

After some additional thought, I may not just replace manlands with these. I think this is going to make me more closely evaluate what each guild gets. I run 5 cycles as well, and the ABUR duals, fetches, and shocks are locks for each guild. Beyond that, I'm finally accepting there's enough variety that each guild may want different things. I currently run the above 3 plus manlands and fastlands. I'm thinking of transitioning to the following:

Azorius: Celestial Colonnade, Irrigated Farmland
Dimir: Creeping Tar Pit, Fetid Pools
Rakdos: Blackcleave Cliffs, Lavaclaw Reaches
Gruul: Copperline Gorge, Raging Ravine
Selesnya: Horizon Canopy, Razorverge Thicket
Orzhov: Concealed Courtyard, Shambling Vent
Golgari: Blooming Marsh, Nurturing Peatland
Simic: Botanical Sanctum, Waterlogged Grove (I'm not actually sure about the fastland here - considering temple or filter)
Izzet: Fiery Islet, Spirebluff Canal (maybe Temple of Epiphany?)
Boros: Inspiring Vantage, Needle Spires

This set is poised to rock our cubes. At the very least mana bases are going to see some radical changes. I think I'm going to cut the checklands and run pain, filter, fast, or horizon lands.

I'm probably going to run all 5 of these in place of the enemy creaturelands. The only creaturelands I'm really hesitant to cut would be UW and UB, but we're not there yet.

These are great for green decks.

^^^^ this is how I feel too. On paper some guilds, like Rakdos or Boros, don't want an etb tapped dual or don't care to have a manland. In practice I've found that manlands tend to matter quite a bit, even in aggressive decks, and can often tip the scales in your favor. Lands that are more then lands are always worth a look. Lands that are more than lands that fix your mana are pretty wild in my mind.

Quote from noshadowkick »

^^^^ this is how I feel too. On paper some guilds, like Rakdos or Boros, don't want an etb tapped dual or don't care to have a manland. In practice I've found that manlands tend to matter quite a bit, even in aggressive decks, and can often tip the scales in your favor. Lands that are more then lands are always worth a look. Lands that are more than lands that fix your mana are pretty wild in my mind.

Agreed. I like Needle Spires and co more than most, even in the aggro guilds. But drawing a card is pretty good, too, and coming in untapped is huge.

Yes and yes. Which is why I’m going to be happy to include the Horizon cycle as my 5th in the enemy colors over fastlands/Scrylands/Painlands/checklands.

I think these are probably a bit better then cycle duals so I’m going to drop the Selesnya one for Horizon Canopy.

I feel like the Boros one is particularly attractive since it tends to be aggressive as a pairing, but doesn't have a lot in the way of card draw. These would surely be good in any guild though and are around the top options for most guilds post-ABU/shocks/fetches. The manlands, fastlands and cycle duals are also good depending on the guild.

I’d probably run all ten of these if they were available over cycle duals and not blink an eye. But we only have 6 (not complaining!) and the cycle duals are also lands that have card draw so I’m happy to run them until something better comes along.

I think these will play out more similar to how Rackdos Cackler plays out. you don't need to be RB to run him, Boros decks are just as happy to pick him up. The same goes for these. I think 75% of the value comes from the Draw a card ability and 25% comes from the fixing. Compared to say the man lands where the fixing is really important because you have to be playing both colors to activate the card, and if you aren't it's just worse than a basic. These on the other hand, are more like Moxen, You pick any that come along, and you hope that you get the ones that are the color of the deck you happen to be playing

The Cipt aspect of the cycle-duals and the fact that you can't play them as a land early and then cash them in later doesn't appeal to aggro combinations that want to play a slightly lower land count. These "canopy"-lands are exactly what something like Boros was looking for.

not sure yet on these. man lands have been great.

I think I like this more in Boros, golgari, and simic than the manlands, but I think Orzhov and and Izzet both want their manlands more. This is gonna be an annoying 1/2 cycle situation lol.

While these are great, I do run colorless cards that require colorless mana. So the painlands do more than these in that regard, and I value mana fixing over neat effects, at least in anything that is of a cycle.

I just don’t think I have any land cuts for these that I am happy with, and thus will probably pass on them.

I think these are very powerful and should be included in cube; however, my only reason for advising against it is the lack of balance. Only 6 color combinations will have access to this and I think that would simply not be fair. Even if each color would not necessarily want access to this ability all the time I would not want to deny any color this option.

I recently added a split cycle of signets for 7 guilds and an additional land for 3 guilds that seemed to least benefit from the signet (Gruul, Golgari, and Boros). The Horizon lands are an easy swap for the fastlands I'm running in Boros and Golgari. I think Simic can lose the signet. For Orzhov, I'm really torn. Since Orzhov plays in control and midrange a lot, it loves the signet. It also likes the manland for post-Wrath recovery, even if the body isn't the best. I guess the land is the cut there. In Izzet, there's no way I'm cutting the signet, so it looks like the manland goes there too. That sounds good, right?

When/if they do the full cycle of allied pairs, the choices become more difficult.

Cheers,
rant

Quote from K0olmini »

I think these are very powerful and should be included in cube; however, my only reason for advising against it is the lack of balance. Only 6 color combinations will have access to this and I think that would simply not be fair. Even if each color would not necessarily want access to this ability all the time I would not want to deny any color this option.

I actually think the only color combination that will REALLY want this effect and doesn't have it* will be Rakdos. Even in Gruul, I think raging ravine is just better.

*if you're running 4 of each dual land. Once you get to 5 or above, I think your cube is big enough that some colors having slightly better lands some percentage of the time since you probably aren't drafting the whole cube most of the time at that point.

While the small Cubers debate which land is the 4th best for each color pair, I just want to say that these lands are a dream come true for 720!

Does anyone else here still run bouncelands, btw?

My land section is based off the ones I open by chance, so there are pieces of a lot of cycles in there. I still run Dimir Aqueduct, and two other bounce lands. There are some worthwhile interactions, like Vizier of Tumbling Sands and Argothian Elder as well as landfall.

Since this is a whole cycle, I'll likely open one of the five, and I'll be very happy to add it. I would hope for a green one to work with Ramunap Excavator and friends. GB would be perfect for The Gitrog Monster and Muldrotha, the Gravetide. But I'm not picky: I'll play as many of these as I get.

Quote from Mergatroid_Jones »

My land section is based off the ones I open by chance, so there are pieces of a lot of cycles in there. I still run Dimir Aqueduct, and two other bounce lands. There are some worthwhile interactions, like Vizier of Tumbling Sands and Argothian Elder as well as landfall.

Since this is a whole cycle, I'll likely open one of the five, and I'll be very happy to add it. I would hope for a green one to work with Ramunap Excavator and friends. GB would be perfect for The Gitrog Monster and Muldrotha, the Gravetide. But I'm not picky: I'll play as many of these as I get.

A cube of stuff that you happened to open would be pretty cool. You owuld end up getting a weird eclttic mess of cards and I could see that being fun.

I can't wait to get a GB canopy land for my Gitrog Monster commander deck.

Quote from Cythare »

After some additional thought, I may not just replace manlands with these. I think this is going to make me more closely evaluate what each guild gets. I run 5 cycles as well, and the ABUR duals, fetches, and shocks are locks for each guild. Beyond that, I'm finally accepting there's enough variety that each guild may want different things.

I'm working with 5 cycles (50 slots) for two-colored lands as well. I think all of the "horizon" cycle will go in for me. This is what I'm thinking (very close to yours, but with a few differences*):

Azorius: Celestial Colonnade, Irrigated Farmland
Dimir: Creeping Tar Pit, Fetid Pools
Rakdos: Blackcleave Cliffs, Lavaclaw Reaches
Gruul: Copperline Gorge, Raging Ravine
Selesnya: Horizon Canopy, Stirring Wildwood *
Orzhov: Concealed Courtyard, Silent Clearing *
Golgari: Blooming Marsh, Nurturing Peatland
Simic: Temple of Mystery, Waterlogged Grove *
Izzet: Fiery Islet, Temple of Epiphany *
Boros: Inspiring Vantage, Sunbaked Canyon *

I think you had the right idea with the Temples, but I like Stirring Wildwood and ALL this new cycle. Just my two cents! We are on the same page, though! Happy cubing

yea just wow!

540 powered cube. Playing in each color:

Dual
Fetch
Shock
Manland

For the 5th cycle, the 6 Horizon Canopy lands replaced fastlands for me. So it looks like:
Horizon Canopy
Nurturing Peatland (over Blooming Marsh)
Fiery Islet (over Spirebluff Canal)
Silent Clearing (over Concealed Courtyard)
Waterlogged Grove (over Botanical Sanctum)
Sunbaked Canyon (over Inspiring Vantage)
Copperline Gorge
Blackcleave Cliffs
Irrigated Farmland (over Seachrome Coast)
Fetid Pools (over Darkslick Shores)

Will be cutting the final four if/when they finish the Horizon Canopy cycle.