I'm fairly certain this is less interesting for the cube than Vraska, Relic Seeker, but it does build loyalty fast, can Abrupt Decay things, and the ultimate is OG Vraska's ultimate but for all your creatures. Also 4CMC is cool.
I think this is more interesting than Relic Seeker actually. Her plus is a nice sac / draw engine that’s useful in a lot of decks. I’m conflicted right now, but I might give this a test.
Third worst vraska makes me sad as I was hoping to get even more cube use out of the special pw set I totally need to order. Hopefully this will have standard use so I can trade it out.
I'm hopeful for this card. She's a 4 mana planeswalker that goes to 6 immediately (which is a massive amount of loyalty) and is great in recursive shells.
Notably her + doesn't require you to sac a permanent. So a common play pattern will just be two abrupt decays, assuming she doesn't die in two turns (which is less likely given that her - protects her). Couple that with the fact that she's a great late game draw engine, and my impression is that you have a decent card. I will likely test, but I'm not holding my breath.
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I think I prefer Relic Seeker. She costs more mana, but can come down with 8 loyalty and a 2/2 to protect her, making her nearly impossible to kill in many board states. Also her removal ability is slightly better in my cube as it has more targets.
The draw engine on this Vraska is interesting but there will be games where you don't have random permanents to get rid of, making her +2 a do-nothing. I don't think this Vraska can break into my Golgari section, especially now that we have Assassin's Trophy
The formula of
+: draw a card
-: kill something
--: win the game
is getting kinda old. I still might try her because a 4 mana 6 loyalty walker is pretty serious and abrupt decay is a good card. Not really the build around I was hoping for though.
I think she could be okay in black aggro with some green splashed in, tbh.
Saccing things like bloodghast or even rancor doesn't see terrible, and becuase she has a +2, those creatures not being able to protect her very well is somewhat mitigated. Granted, I'd prefer things like that new midnight reaper (which i think fills the role im specifically talking about muc better...) or just classic bob.
That -3 reaaly hurts though. I wish it was closer to her OG middle ability, but being able to plus once and -3 twice isn't terrible.
I think it's kinda neat, but I want to be very sure that I can abuse the sacrifice. Black has some duders that don't mind, but green seems to have fewer. Maybe it will work with like, Crucible / Ramunap / Loam ... but she doesn't feel like an amazing inclusion to that deck. Just ... eh ok
"draw engine" is an inaccurate label. Unless you have some sort of recursive permanent, it's slightly better than card parity.
The high loyalty is very nice. The -3 is solid, but has limited application and makes her die to a gust of wind.
Ultimate is good, but not broken.
Overall a solid walker that I have almost no interest in.. I believe the 6 mana vraska is better.
It's not terrible, but I can't see this good enough for cube. It needs a recursive element to actually be decent otherwise it's two abrupt decays over 3 turns.
There’s a lot of depth to this Vraska, especially compared to any other generic Golgari removal card not named Pernicious Deed.
- She fits the Jace, Unraveler of Secrets / Ob Nixilis Reignited mold with her first 2 abilities (although her first ability doesn’t exactly generate card advantage without something recursive). The only other 4-cmc walkers that fit that mold are JTMS / Chandra, ToD.
- She can immediately ramp to 6 loyalty, which only Karn can do at 4 mana. She also grows faster than Karn since she has a +2
- Sac outlets are hard to comeby and she has the best payoff. Kind of sucks that you can’t sacrifice at instant speed, but oh well.
While not the most obviously powerful card in RTRTR, she does intrigue me the most from a drafting / deckbuilding standpoint. She has a lot going on for her in BGX midrange and possibly control shells also. I’m always a fan of building around things like Excavator / Living Death / Loam / etc, so I will probably give this a good amount of testing time. This is definitely one of those “there’s more than it seems on the surface” cards where you really need to test it out to see exactly what it can do.
There’s a lot of depth to this Vraska, especially compared to any other generic Golgari removal card not named Pernicious Deed.
- She fits the Jace, Unraveler of Secrets / Ob Nixilis Reignited mold with her first 2 abilities (although her first ability doesn’t exactly generate card advantage without something recursive). The only other 4-cmc walkers that fit that mold are JTMS / Chandra, ToD.
- She can immediately ramp to 6 loyalty, which only Karn can do at 4 mana. She also grows faster than Karn since she has a +2
- Sac outlets are hard to comeby and she has the best payoff. Kind of sucks that you can’t sacrifice at instant speed, but oh well.
While not the most obviously powerful card in RTRTR, she does intrigue me the most from a drafting / deckbuilding standpoint. She has a lot going on for her in BGX midrange and possibly control shells also. I’m always a fan of building around things like Excavator / Living Death / Loam / etc, so I will probably give this a good amount of testing time. This is definitely one of those “there’s more than it seems on the surface” cards where you really need to test it out to see exactly what it can do.
Interesting perspective Steve_Man. Thanks for the write up. Vraska's plus is definitely ripe for the abusing but she will make you work for it. Skullclamp pairs nicely with her and would net you some serious card advantage.
This seems pretty bad to me. Sac is a for real cost, there are PW's that have better - abilities to kill creatures, the - not being able to remove big threats SUCKS, and ultimates don't matter. It's nice that she goes up to 6 I guess, but is she even that much better than Ob Nixilis? 1 mana more for a much better + and - ability.
This seems pretty bad to me. Sac is a for real cost, there are PW's that have better - abilities to kill creatures, the - not being able to remove big threats SUCKS, and ultimates don't matter. It's nice that she goes up to 6 I guess, but is she even that much better than Ob Nixilis? 1 mana more for a much better + and - ability.
I wouldn't necessarily say Ob's minus ability is better, Abrupt Decay sees much more play than things like Terminate.
This seems pretty bad to me. Sac is a for real cost, there are PW's that have better - abilities to kill creatures, the - not being able to remove big threats SUCKS, and ultimates don't matter. It's nice that she goes up to 6 I guess, but is she even that much better than Ob Nixilis? 1 mana more for a much better + and - ability.
I wouldn't necessarily say Ob's minus ability is better, Abrupt Decay sees much more play than things like Terminate.
Most things pws need to protect themselves from are creatures, and there's lots if those vraska can't kill, Sure, sometimes she can a baby jace, or a sword, but the times she CAN'T kill a hero of bladehold, or titan, or whatever medium to big threat you're facing, are gonna be far more often.
Abrupt decay sees more play because not being able to be countered is real, and destroy target creature is an effect we have a lot more of at lower costs. I'd take terminate on a PW over abrupt decay every time.
Abrupt Decay is also available earlier. So the CMC restriction isn't as big of a deal in the windows where it really shines. Whereas this ability being used on in the T4-6 range will make the CMC restriction a much more real drawback. It'll still find targets and stuff, don't get me wrong ...but it might not kill the most important threat, and it resolves outside the range where the Decay effect is the most impactful.
This seems pretty bad to me. Sac is a for real cost, there are PW's that have better - abilities to kill creatures, the - not being able to remove big threats SUCKS, and ultimates don't matter. It's nice that she goes up to 6 I guess, but is she even that much better than Ob Nixilis? 1 mana more for a much better + and - ability.
Worth noting that you don’t have to actually sac something. You can just plus and pass. Hard to compare with Ob, but the difference between 4 mana and 5 mana is absolutely massive for planeswalkers.
The average BCS (ultimates nonwithstanding) for this card feels like it will be two Abrupt Decays spaced out over 3 turns. Probably not worth it for 4 mana.
Wear she might show real promise is in a recursive shell, as Steve_man pointed out. If recursive BG or Abzan midrange is common in your cube, I think she warrants testing. I wish this sort of planeswalker came out in WB - that’s really where this would shine.
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This seems pretty bad to me. Sac is a for real cost, there are PW's that have better - abilities to kill creatures, the - not being able to remove big threats SUCKS, and ultimates don't matter. It's nice that she goes up to 6 I guess, but is she even that much better than Ob Nixilis? 1 mana more for a much better + and - ability.
Worth noting that you don’t have to actually sac something. You can just plus and pass. Hard to compare with Ob, but the difference between 4 mana and 5 mana is absolutely massive for planeswalkers.
The average BCS (ultimates nonwithstanding) for this card feels like it will be two Abrupt Decays spaced out over 3 turns. Probably not worth it for 4 mana.
Wear she might show real promise is in a recursive shell, as Steve_man pointed out. If recursive BG or Abzan midrange is common in your cube, I think she warrants testing. I wish this sort of planeswalker came out in WB - that’s really where this would shine.
Yeah, you can +2 for nothing, but that's not where I want to be. Most other PW where you are +-ing for nothing, like flip jace, it's cause you're way ahead. Here, there's a lot of times you're gonna +2 because you need all your lands/creatures. This PW just feels bad to me, and worse than all my other golgari cards. Especially when we just got an absurd golgari card spoiled that's gonna push abrupt decay out of a lot of people's cubes.
Has anyone gotten any in game testing with this card yet? My group runs relic seeker, but we have a few interested in trying out vraska, golgari queen.
Has anyone gotten any in game testing with this card yet? My group runs relic seeker, but we have a few interested in trying out vraska, golgari queen.
Vraska is pretty solid and doesn't require too much build around. Being able to Abrupt Decay something on turn 3-4 and then start converting extraneous / recursive resources into cards is pretty gas and kind of reminds me of Palace Jailer. As a 4-cmc planeswalker, she's no Elspeth / Gideon, but is more like a 4-mana Jace, Unraveller of Secrets / Ob Nixilis Reignited variant.
In terms of Golgari cards, I would put her in the #4 slot at best. There's a lot of good options after Trophy / Deed / Pulse. In a powered cube I'd probably lean towards Abrupt Decay, but Vraska has (potentially repetable) Abrupt Decays built-in on top of being a sacrifice / draw engine. A lot of people complain about Golgari cards being all removal spells, and Vraska has a lot more depth than most Golgari cards. While vastly different from her other counter parts, I do prefer this Vraska to her other variants.
Recently our group discovered this card to be quite good. When you’re not getting run over by an aggressive deck she turns into a serious value engine.
I'm fairly certain this is less interesting for the cube than Vraska, Relic Seeker, but it does build loyalty fast, can Abrupt Decay things, and the ultimate is OG Vraska's ultimate but for all your creatures. Also 4CMC is cool.
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As it is, my first inclination is to give this a pass.
Notably her + doesn't require you to sac a permanent. So a common play pattern will just be two abrupt decays, assuming she doesn't die in two turns (which is less likely given that her - protects her). Couple that with the fact that she's a great late game draw engine, and my impression is that you have a decent card. I will likely test, but I'm not holding my breath.
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The draw engine on this Vraska is interesting but there will be games where you don't have random permanents to get rid of, making her +2 a do-nothing. I don't think this Vraska can break into my Golgari section, especially now that we have Assassin's Trophy
+: draw a card
-: kill something
--: win the game
is getting kinda old. I still might try her because a 4 mana 6 loyalty walker is pretty serious and abrupt decay is a good card. Not really the build around I was hoping for though.
Saccing things like bloodghast or even rancor doesn't see terrible, and becuase she has a +2, those creatures not being able to protect her very well is somewhat mitigated. Granted, I'd prefer things like that new midnight reaper (which i think fills the role im specifically talking about muc better...) or just classic bob.
That -3 reaaly hurts though. I wish it was closer to her OG middle ability, but being able to plus once and -3 twice isn't terrible.
The high loyalty is very nice. The -3 is solid, but has limited application and makes her die to a gust of wind.
Ultimate is good, but not broken.
Overall a solid walker that I have almost no interest in.. I believe the 6 mana vraska is better.
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- She fits the Jace, Unraveler of Secrets / Ob Nixilis Reignited mold with her first 2 abilities (although her first ability doesn’t exactly generate card advantage without something recursive). The only other 4-cmc walkers that fit that mold are JTMS / Chandra, ToD.
- She can immediately ramp to 6 loyalty, which only Karn can do at 4 mana. She also grows faster than Karn since she has a +2
- Sac outlets are hard to comeby and she has the best payoff. Kind of sucks that you can’t sacrifice at instant speed, but oh well.
While not the most obviously powerful card in RTRTR, she does intrigue me the most from a drafting / deckbuilding standpoint. She has a lot going on for her in BGX midrange and possibly control shells also. I’m always a fan of building around things like Excavator / Living Death / Loam / etc, so I will probably give this a good amount of testing time. This is definitely one of those “there’s more than it seems on the surface” cards where you really need to test it out to see exactly what it can do.
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I wouldn't necessarily say Ob's minus ability is better, Abrupt Decay sees much more play than things like Terminate.
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Most things pws need to protect themselves from are creatures, and there's lots if those vraska can't kill, Sure, sometimes she can a baby jace, or a sword, but the times she CAN'T kill a hero of bladehold, or titan, or whatever medium to big threat you're facing, are gonna be far more often.
Abrupt decay sees more play because not being able to be countered is real, and destroy target creature is an effect we have a lot more of at lower costs. I'd take terminate on a PW over abrupt decay every time.
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Worth noting that you don’t have to actually sac something. You can just plus and pass. Hard to compare with Ob, but the difference between 4 mana and 5 mana is absolutely massive for planeswalkers.
The average BCS (ultimates nonwithstanding) for this card feels like it will be two Abrupt Decays spaced out over 3 turns. Probably not worth it for 4 mana.
Wear she might show real promise is in a recursive shell, as Steve_man pointed out. If recursive BG or Abzan midrange is common in your cube, I think she warrants testing. I wish this sort of planeswalker came out in WB - that’s really where this would shine.
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Yeah, you can +2 for nothing, but that's not where I want to be. Most other PW where you are +-ing for nothing, like flip jace, it's cause you're way ahead. Here, there's a lot of times you're gonna +2 because you need all your lands/creatures. This PW just feels bad to me, and worse than all my other golgari cards. Especially when we just got an absurd golgari card spoiled that's gonna push abrupt decay out of a lot of people's cubes.
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Vraska is pretty solid and doesn't require too much build around. Being able to Abrupt Decay something on turn 3-4 and then start converting extraneous / recursive resources into cards is pretty gas and kind of reminds me of Palace Jailer. As a 4-cmc planeswalker, she's no Elspeth / Gideon, but is more like a 4-mana Jace, Unraveller of Secrets / Ob Nixilis Reignited variant.
In terms of Golgari cards, I would put her in the #4 slot at best. There's a lot of good options after Trophy / Deed / Pulse. In a powered cube I'd probably lean towards Abrupt Decay, but Vraska has (potentially repetable) Abrupt Decays built-in on top of being a sacrifice / draw engine. A lot of people complain about Golgari cards being all removal spells, and Vraska has a lot more depth than most Golgari cards. While vastly different from her other counter parts, I do prefer this Vraska to her other variants.
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