MTG Salvation

Hi all,

Thought it was a little odd that there wasn't a ranked list of burn spells floating around in here somewhere. Of course this list depends on the build of the deck (you'd never play Fireblast in a control deck), but gun to head what's the ranking?

Here's how I rate the ones we run at 450. I'm including spells that also only hit creatures or players as well. This is just my opinion - yours could be (and probably is) different!

1. Lightning Bolt
2. Chain Lightning
3. Fiery Confluence
4. Lightning Strike variants (Incinerate, Searing Spear
5. Fireblast
6. Arc Trail
7. Blast from the Past (for those that play it)
8. Abrade
9. Arc Lightning
10. Magma Jet
11. Char
12. Firebolt
13. Burst Lightning
14. Collective Defiance

Which burn cards do you guys run, and how do you rank them? Interesting to get opinions on cards I don't currently run like Brimstone Volley and Incendiary Flow.

I mostly agree with your rankings, though I do have a couple differences.

Fireblast- I thought many people around here cut it? I did and haven't missed it. Either way, I can't imagine it being ranked #5 since its such a narrow card compared to something like Burst Lightning or Abrade.

Personally, I found Arc Lighting to be a bit clunky and cut it, but I know I'm very much in the minority on that.

Quote from ThatOneNinja »

I mostly agree with your rankings, though I do have a couple differences.

Fireblast- I thought many people around here cut it? I did and haven't missed it. Either way, I can't imagine it being ranked #5 since its such a narrow card compared to something like Burst Lightning or Abrade.

Personally, I found Arc Lighting to be a bit clunky and cut it, but I know I'm very much in the minority on that.

Yeah my love for Fireblast is probably subjective. It's just a personal favorite of mine, as I've killed so many players with it.

I like Fireblast a lot but but I'm not a big fan of it in cube.

Forked Bolt has been good for me, I would shout it out over the bottom 4 on the list except Burst Lightning (which I would rank higher). 2-for-1s a lot of utility guys or tokens and its not too hard to set up a situation where you are casting it post-combat to clean up some blockers.

1. Lightning Bolt
2. Chain Lightning
3. Fiery Confluence
4. Lightning Strike variants (Incinerate, Searing Spear)
5. Fireblast
6. Arc Trail
7. Burst Lightning
8. Abrade
9. Arc Lightning
10. Firebolt
11. Fire Ambush / Volcanic Hammer
12. Magma Jet
13. Forked Bolt
14. Collective Defiance
15. Searing Blaze
16. Galvanic Blast
17. Char
18. Seal of Fire

Here's how I'd rank the spells I run.

1. Lightning Bolt
2. Chain Lightning
3. Magma Jet
4. Char
5. Fiery Confluence
6. Abrade
7. Firebolt
8. Burst Lightning
9. Arc Trail
10. Incinerate
11. Lightning Strike / Searing Spear
12. Fireblast
13. Arc Lightning / Flames of the Firebrand

Tangent: who has the highest record for the X-for-1 that Firery Confluence got them, and how did it happen?

Quote from Salmo »

Tangent: who has the highest record for the X-for-1 that Firery Confluence got them, and how did it happen?

This has to be some combination of 1 to all creatures, blow up two artifacts. I haven't seen that specifically, but I did once build a sweet WB midrange deck with a whole Stoneforge equipment package and had my opponent literally blow up three of my equipment. Felt like skipping three turns.

I actually want to re-open this thread:

I think Fireblast isn't that great. I find having the two mountain requirement isn't "free" and the card is a bit too narrow for cubes in general.

I would personally prefer to have an extra burn that can remove blockers - Flame Slash, Roast or Magmatic Sinkhole

Fireblast is better than anything but bolt and chain IMO, and maybe confluence. It's better than any of the 2 cmc for 3 damage variants. It does what no other burn spells can do. I would never cut it. It wins so many games.

Quote from steve_man »

Rather than ranking them individually, I'll group them in tiers.

TOP
- Lightning Bolt
- Fiery Confluence
- Shatterskull Smashing

ightning Bolt is the gold standard for all burn spells, while Fiery Confluence / Shatterskull Smashing are both powerful and modal.

HIGH
- Bonecrusher Giant // Stomp
- Magma Jet
- Abrade (if you want to count that as a burn spell)
- Incinerate / Lightning Strike / Searing Spear
- Firebolt
- Chain Lightning
- Arc Trail

These are all versatile and can be played in pretty much any red deck. Can't go wrong with any of these.

MID
- Arc Lightning / Flames of the Firebrand
- Forked Bolt
- Roil Eruption
- Incendiary Flow / Volcanic Hammer / Fire Ambush
- Char
- Fireblast
- Purphoros's Intervention
- Spikefield Hazard

Good options, but a bit more narrow / less efficient than others.

I agree with the above, except I'm not really a fan of Firebolt myself. Roast is bit of a personal fav of mine back when I played UR decks in modern and legacy and just desperately needed answers to Tarmogoyf, Taisgur, Reality Smasher, Knight of the Reliquary etc.

Purely from a combined maindeck and win percentage this is how the red burn in my cube has played out.

1. Shatterskull Smashing (small sample size: 7 drafts)
2. Lightning Bolt
3. Stomp // Bonecrusher Giant
4. Fiery Confluence
5. Searing Spear/Incinerate
6. Magma Jet
7. Abrade
8. Firebolt (small sample size: 12 drafts)
9. Burst Lightning
10. Arc Trail
11. Chain Lightning (small sample size: 11 Drafts)
13. Fireblast
14. Mizzium Mortars

@breathe1234:

We played Roast a few years ago, but we found that flyers often beat the red deck. Perhaps Cubes with different white sections might find better success with it, but we run Baneslayer, Lyra, Gisela, and Archon of Sun’s Grace (recently added) as cards that beat red aggro if not dealt with. There are many other non-hits too, but it feels bad when your creature only removal spell can’t kill the creatures that are best against your deck.

For these reasons I think Magmatic Sinkhole is actually an OK option - and only “OK” - but if I’m the red aggro player this is the catch all I want against creatures if I didn’t get Dismember.

EDIT: haha I just looked up the Magmatic Sinkhole thread and realized I already made this exact point there several months ago, sorry!!

I would like to take back what I wrote about Fireblast - The card is awesome, do not overlook the card.

1. Lightning Bolt/ Chain Lightning are the premium burn spells in cube - they're great in aggro/ midrange/ control etc. There was a theory that we could cut the more narrow burn spells such as Sulfuric Vortex/ FireBlast and play more generic burn such as Shattershock/ Roil Eruption.

This sounds great on paper, but I found those 2 cards to be too weak for almost any archetype is always the 23rd or 24th card.

2. 4 Damage vs 3 Damage is ALOT. Burn at its core is about chaining 7 Lightning Bolts at the opponent. However, a single Boros Charm/ Fireblast can throw off that math to 6.

3. This is not as narrow as you might think - I've played it in Storm decks where the free spell + damage was relevant. The 3 cards put into the graveyard provided fuel etc. I've picked it fairly highly in any deck playing red as its a fine sideboard card against combo decks as it can be the last spell you cast and can often shorten the race by 1 turn.

I'm wondering if Rift Bolt has a place.

Rift Bolt is certainly a card I've glanced at a few times in the past. I think it's acceptable as a suspend in burn decks specifically because a challenge of those decks is trying to maximize your damage per mana spent. But I think it becomes dubious in control situations because you're either spending 3 or waiting a full turn and taking damage before it pops off (Unless you suspend it preemptively because you're anticipating your opponent to play through it).

I think the Searing Spear variants are all preferable to Rift Bolt because anybody can reasonably play them. If I wanted a bunch of cards super-dedicated to burn, though, I might reconsider Rift Bolt (but only after I go for one of my favoritest burns ever, Flame Rift).

A burn player was asking why Rift Bolt wasn't in the cube and I didn't have a good answer for him.

Light up the Night was somewhat of a disappointment. I trying out Cathartic Pyre, but I could see myself playing Char or Rift Bolt.

I found Char to be a bit better than I originally thought - its 4th point of burn was incredibly relevant.

Yeah, I think Char is still solid. Sometimes getting around a Questing Beast or other x/4 is too much of a headache with the typical bolts. Alternatives for 4 damage are, what? Kicked Burst Lightning? Fireblast? FTK? I mean yes play those cards too, but I think Char is a very reasonable include for plenty of lists.

Quote from Blue_Oneironaut »

Yeah, I think Char is still solid. Sometimes getting around a Questing Beast or other x/4 is too much of a headache with the typical bolts. Alternatives for 4 damage are, what? Kicked Burst Lightning? Fireblast? FTK? I mean yes play those cards too, but I think Char is a very reasonable include for plenty of lists.

Chandra, torch of Defiance and Flame Slash both hit for 4.

I still play Roast, but I think its days are numbered.