MTG Salvation

Don't think this is worth it. Doesn't enable the broken early stuff like Cradle does.

This is rough; the cradle side looks gorgeous, and is obviously very powerful, but the enchantment is just too slow for Cube. Oath of Nissa only works because it only costs one, looks for 3 card types, and also fixes for planeswalkers. This one costs 3, which is a lot just to look for a creature, and doesn't provide additional value.

Another in a long line of transform previews with unfortunate hoops to jump through to get payoffs in the form of classic magic lands. Wish they would have pushed the front sides on these a bit more. These are just too safe.

Can I just flip this card and play it in my cube as the land? Please? The front side is so slow and expensive.

I could maybe justify this, but three mana to see four cards is not very good. Four creatures is not that big a hurdle to be fair, but this really does need to flip reliably to justify itself. It's not much of a cube card, but I might force it in just to try it.

Quote from calibretto »

Can I just flip this card and play it in my cube as the land? Please? The front side is so slow and expensive.

This is very interesting. I didn't thought about it before... I mean, nothing stops us from sleaving it up and playing those "land" cards as a very good lands with gorgeous frames. I will ask my playgroup if they're willing to do so. It might be too broken and non convenient though.

Ha! The idea of playing only the backsides is great. Compared to the broken cards most people put in their cubes, it's certainly not going to shatter the format. My cube is janky already, so I can't justify doing that, but if I had a smaller powered cube, I'd do it just to try.

This would be reasonable if you could hit lands off the trigger, since then you're at least getting a Seek the Wilds out of the deal. Maybe if you support Elves or green tokens as a major theme, but even then you need a good mana sink to make the back half even worthwhile. Just too narrow overall.

The idea of just playing the back sides has been floating around on reddit for a while now. I think several of these might be too good if we did this. Maze of Ith or Gaea's Cradle that can also tap for a mana? Primal Wellspring and Conqueror's Foothold are ridiculous value if you start with that side. The Diamond Valley one (black land) might be fine.

Hadn't thought of just playing the back side. I have been wanting to get a cradle but maybe i will just do this instead.

A lot of folks elsewhere were really excited for this, and I just don't think it's that good. A 3-mana, sorcery, conditional Impulse is pretty bad, and 4 creatures is a lot to ask. I could see this card failing to flip quite often, and the front half is too rough for that kind of inconsistency.

I wonder if the card is better in cubes that support token strategies. I have a 28 cards that make at least 2 creatures on their own and 9 Planeswalkers that make tokens. Obviously not all of them will be in the same deck, but a 2 or 3 color token deck is a real archetype in my cube. Perhaps in that environment Itlimoc could be a good card.

Quote from allred123 »

Hadn't thought of just playing the back side. I have been wanting to get a cradle but maybe i will just do this instead.

Might as well just proxy up Cradle if you are going to "cheat" and just use the backside of this card

Quote from allred123 »

Hadn't thought of just playing the back side. I have been wanting to get a cradle but maybe i will just do this instead.

Yeah, just sleeving up the back half as a pseudo-proxy for Gaea's Cradle seems cool.

The back half, without having to flip, is strictly better than Gaea's Cradle. Even if I were running Powered, that would feel kind of wrong. A land is not supposed to better than Cradle/Academy/Maze.

Quote from SirPicaro »

The back half, without having to flip, is strictly better than Gaea's Cradle. Even if I were running Powered, that would feel kind of wrong. A land is not supposed to better than Cradle/Academy/Maze.

This is my thought. I get that there are better cards than cradle, but I don't want to feel like I'm breaking something to get there.

If the enchantment cost only G, like Oath of Nissa, I would run this. At 1G, I would at least try it a few times. At 2G? Pass.

Quote from Salmo »

Quote from SirPicaro »

The back half, without having to flip, is strictly better than Gaea's Cradle. Even if I were running Powered, that would feel kind of wrong. A land is not supposed to better than Cradle/Academy/Maze.

This is my thought. I get that there are better cards than cradle, but I don't want to feel like I'm breaking something to get there.

While this would make the card strictly better than cradle, it's not raising the ceiling of the card, its only lifting floor and making it not a dead card. If it ends up being to strong it can easily be cut out.

Quote from allred123 »

Quote from Salmo »

Quote from SirPicaro »

The back half, without having to flip, is strictly better than Gaea's Cradle. Even if I were running Powered, that would feel kind of wrong. A land is not supposed to better than Cradle/Academy/Maze.

This is my thought. I get that there are better cards than cradle, but I don't want to feel like I'm breaking something to get there.

While this would make the card strictly better than cradle, it's not raising the ceiling of the card, its only lifting floor and making it not a dead card. If it ends up being to strong it can easily be cut out.

Right I get that it's pretty close in application and raising the floor is real, but I'm an OCD weirdo who doesn't like to errata things to make them cubeable, makes me feel dirty and off.

Essentially: I like creating things with lego pieces, but I don't feel like melting any down to make my own blocks. Personal preference.

The idea of just running the backside of these cards and pretending the front side doesn't exist is certainly interesting, but personally I just wouldn't feel right doing that. It's not how the cards were meant to be played and that's what I prefer from my cube cards. If I have to errata the card somehow to make it playable, then it's not cube worthy to begin with.

It costs too much, obviously. But the flip trigger is also bad. Yipee, I can get a Cradle... and my first use of it almost certainly comes on my opponent's turn. If this triggered whenever a creature ETB under your control, I'd like it a lot more. Maybe not enough to play it, but I'd have to consider it at that point. As is, easy pass.

I actually like this card quite a bit and will likely test it. I think flipping it will prove not too hard, and it can make for a pretty powerful turn. The front side is not worth the cost but it is a useful effect and contributes to transforming it.