Red board wipe that hits planeswalkers and indestructibles is interesting. Sweeping planeswalkers is rare outside of Planar Cleansing / Cataclysm effects. Hitting your own non-Bolas walkers kind of makes it hard for this to be symmetrical, especially with your X/5s trying to survive Wildfire. Not sure if this is for me, but it's definitely one of the more interesting red board wipes after all the EQ / Wildfire Variants.
This is definitely interesting. It fits less in wildfire decks than I'd like, but maybe it's fine as a wrath variant? I think I would prefer the earthquake variants and fiery confluence since they can scale and let my walkers live (and fiery confluence is just a ridiculous card) but this is prob worth testing.
How often do you need to wipe the board with a walker already down? Usually you need to boardwipe to land your walker safely.
Well, if you've got Bolas out, you're probably not doing too badly anyway. I think it's mostly there for flavor.
This is pretty great for a five mana red wrath, but red has such efficient wraths at cheaper costs that this probably isn't getting all that far. Sweltering Suns and Earthquake type cards get the job done more easily. Still, this is a very good card.
How often do you need to wipe the board with a walker already down? Usually you need to boardwipe to land your walker safely.
Well, if you've got Bolas out, you're probably not doing too badly anyway. I think it's mostly there for flavor.
This is pretty great for a five mana red wrath, but red has such efficient wraths at cheaper costs that this probably isn't getting all that far. Sweltering Suns and Earthquake type cards get the job done more easily. Still, this is a very good card.
Earthquake and Rolling Thunder need 6 mana to deal 5 so this is actually more mana efficient there. Also, if you're redirecting the player damage to your opponents walker, Hour is better there too because you won't have to take the 5 to the face. The cons are it's not scaleable and you don't have the reach of ever going to the face so it's not good in more aggressive decks. Overall though, I think this is a very good card for red control decks and one of the better cards in this set.
I guess a pro though is that if your opponent has multiple non-bolas walkers out this will probably deal with all of them vs earthquake which can only re-direct to one.
I kinda disagree since a number of creatures that survive wildfire die to this, and planeswalkers have become a huge part of the wildfire decks at least in my experience.
Planeswalkers have also become Wildfire decks greatest enemy. Also, as I have tried to explain before, "threat that survives Wildfire into Wildfire" is only one of two basic plans for using that card. And in my experience even the lesser used one.
I dunno, we see a lot of threat->wildfire, and while planeswalkers have become the enemy to a degree I think it's better to plan around them being your friend. It just stinks to potentially need to hold back your own walkers because you have to play this card t5 for other reasons.
As far as Wrath / Planar Cleansing variants goes, Hour of Devestation is the best that red has at a reasonable cost. 5 toughness is usually out of reach for Red outside of X effects, but even then that usually costs 6 mana and a lot of damage to yourself. I like this over the 3 mana mini-sweepers since red has no problem to deal with threats in that range.
The main issue with this card for me is that it's too symmetrical to take advantage of just like Planar Cleansing. I kind of wish this card just 4 damage across the board (for 2RR, greedy me). As is, I don't think I need another red sweeper, but I may test it out just to see exactly how symmetrical it'll play out.
Wow interesting card, not sure if my red section needs/wants this though. Red already has a plethora of efficient sweepers and has the easiest time dealing with walkers of pretty much any color. I think I can probably pass on this.
Our Planeswalker desnsity is insanely high, so I'm pretty sure this is going to make the cut, especially since a lot of our blue based control decks end up as UWr or URw most of the time anyway.
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It seems pretty good, I'll probably test it out for a bit. 4+ toughness is where red has a lot of problems getting things off the board, especially since the ones that can tend to hurt you as well (Wildfire, Earthquake etc.).
Some ways to get round the symmetrical nature of this card is not to run you walkers and the other being to tick up to 6+, your opponent doesn't know it's coming so they are much more likely to lose all there walkers but you can keep one alive.
Indestructible isn't that prevalent in cubes but it could be an effect that goes up in value over the years.
Issue is I rarely get red based control decks that aren't planeswalker heavy.
If planeswalkers or indestructable creatures start becoming an "issue" in my cube, this is definitly a card i'll look towards. But not too interested in this kind of effect at the moment.. Would fault literally no one for running it.
UR control in standard got some serious tools between hour of devastation, abrade, control magic and supreme will. Effecient cards to deal with all axis of permanants in the format! very rare you see that in UR color combinations only.
Planeswalker density is very low in my cube (about 1%), and indestructibility is very rare (take that, Sapling of Colfenor), so this loses most of that extra value.
Still, there are very few non-X red wraths that deal with bigger creatures, and this is absolutely the most efficient version at its cost. I'll add it if I get one, but I won't break my back over it.
I don't think this is that good for our format. I don't like it for Wildfire decks at all (my favorite cube deck) and red-based control decks have better options for sweepers. Pretty easy pass for me.
I don't think this is that good for our format. I don't like it for Wildfire decks at all (my favorite cube deck) and red-based control decks have better options for sweepers. Pretty easy pass for me.
Wildfire is also my favorite deck and this card actually looks like it could be good tech against Wildfire decks.
What better sweeper options exist for U/R control decks? Earthquake and Rolling Thunder will be more expensive to hit 5 damage, fiery confluence can only deal 3 damage to creatures and then wildfire and burning of Xinye aren't true sweepers. Don't get me wrong, these are all better cards and smaller cubes probably don't need more redundancy, but if you're looking for a true sweeper then this looks like reds best option. With all the new low cc walkers jumping into my cube *cough Gideon cough* I think a card like this is good to have.
I don't think this is that good for our format. I don't like it for Wildfire decks at all (my favorite cube deck) and red-based control decks have better options for sweepers. Pretty easy pass for me.
Wildfire is also my favorite deck and this card actually looks like it could be good tech against Wildfire decks.
What better sweeper options exist for U/R control decks? Earthquake and Rolling Thunder will be more expensive to hit 5 damage, fiery confluence can only deal 3 damage to creatures and then wildfire and burning of Xinye aren't true sweepers. Don't get me wrong, these are all better cards and smaller cubes probably don't need more redundancy, but if you're looking for a true sweeper then this looks like reds best option. With all the new low cc walkers jumping into my cube *cough Gideon cough* I think a card like this is good to have.
I don't think this is great against Wildfire, not compared to most other sweepers at least. Sure, you can hit their walkers and their 5 toughness creatures, but you can't take out their titan sized creatures, where a 4-mana Wrath can.
This card should've either done 4 damage or have all the planeswalker damage be opponents only.
Yeah, it's definitely not built for wildfire or red ramp, but I agree UR control has no better sweepers (even close really).
UR control in my cube tends to be lower to the ground counterspell heavy decks without much mana rocks. No sweeper packs this much punch in red for 5 mana.
UR control is rare enough in my cube (nor is it desperate for a planeswalker sweeper), that I don't feel like dedicating a card specifically for it.
UWR or grixis have plenty of options, many of which are better suited for their respective archetype.
Even in UR control I'm not so sure. I still use a lot of cheaper creatures and planeswalkers, and there's a lot of collateral damage with this card. I'd much rather use Earthquake effects or one of the sweepers that can deal with early threats, like Pyroclasm or Sweltering Suns.
Maybe in a red control deck without black or white that doesn't use creatures smaller than X/6 in size and no non-Bolas planeswalkers? Seems ...narrow.
I'd still rather use Rolling Earthquake. Flexible, splashable, and can be used by aggro, midrange and control.
As a control card akin to Wildfire, I like Wildfire/Xinye better because destroying lands is actually more, well, Devastating.
Red board wipe that hits planeswalkers and indestructibles is interesting. Sweeping planeswalkers is rare outside of Planar Cleansing / Cataclysm effects. Hitting your own non-Bolas walkers kind of makes it hard for this to be symmetrical, especially with your X/5s trying to survive Wildfire. Not sure if this is for me, but it's definitely one of the more interesting red board wipes after all the EQ / Wildfire Variants.
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Well, if you've got Bolas out, you're probably not doing too badly anyway. I think it's mostly there for flavor.
This is pretty great for a five mana red wrath, but red has such efficient wraths at cheaper costs that this probably isn't getting all that far. Sweltering Suns and Earthquake type cards get the job done more easily. Still, this is a very good card.
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Perfectly valid in Wildfire decks, too.
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I kinda disagree since a number of creatures that survive wildfire die to this, and planeswalkers have become a huge part of the wildfire decks at least in my experience.
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This is a definite inclusion for me, btw.
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The main issue with this card for me is that it's too symmetrical to take advantage of just like Planar Cleansing. I kind of wish this card just 4 damage across the board (for 2RR, greedy me). As is, I don't think I need another red sweeper, but I may test it out just to see exactly how symmetrical it'll play out.
Needs more creatures with 6th toughness!
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Some ways to get round the symmetrical nature of this card is not to run you walkers and the other being to tick up to 6+, your opponent doesn't know it's coming so they are much more likely to lose all there walkers but you can keep one alive.
Indestructible isn't that prevalent in cubes but it could be an effect that goes up in value over the years.
Issue is I rarely get red based control decks that aren't planeswalker heavy.
If planeswalkers or indestructable creatures start becoming an "issue" in my cube, this is definitly a card i'll look towards. But not too interested in this kind of effect at the moment.. Would fault literally no one for running it.
UR control in standard got some serious tools between hour of devastation, abrade, control magic and supreme will. Effecient cards to deal with all axis of permanants in the format! very rare you see that in UR color combinations only.
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Still, there are very few non-X red wraths that deal with bigger creatures, and this is absolutely the most efficient version at its cost. I'll add it if I get one, but I won't break my back over it.
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What better sweeper options exist for U/R control decks? Earthquake and Rolling Thunder will be more expensive to hit 5 damage, fiery confluence can only deal 3 damage to creatures and then wildfire and burning of Xinye aren't true sweepers. Don't get me wrong, these are all better cards and smaller cubes probably don't need more redundancy, but if you're looking for a true sweeper then this looks like reds best option. With all the new low cc walkers jumping into my cube *cough Gideon cough* I think a card like this is good to have.
I don't think this is great against Wildfire, not compared to most other sweepers at least. Sure, you can hit their walkers and their 5 toughness creatures, but you can't take out their titan sized creatures, where a 4-mana Wrath can.
This card should've either done 4 damage or have all the planeswalker damage be opponents only.
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UR control in my cube tends to be lower to the ground counterspell heavy decks without much mana rocks. No sweeper packs this much punch in red for 5 mana.
UR control is rare enough in my cube (nor is it desperate for a planeswalker sweeper), that I don't feel like dedicating a card specifically for it.
UWR or grixis have plenty of options, many of which are better suited for their respective archetype.
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Maybe in a red control deck without black or white that doesn't use creatures smaller than X/6 in size and no non-Bolas planeswalkers? Seems ...narrow.
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As a control card akin to Wildfire, I like Wildfire/Xinye better because destroying lands is actually more, well, Devastating.