2/3 is pretty rad. Even though I've defended it heavily in the past, probably going to run this over Ashiok. Love me some ashiok, but I think Bannisher Priest with upside is a bit more appealing than the swing-and-miss nature of Ashiok.
I'm torn. I could cut Ashiok. I think strictly on power level alone Silumgar, Scarab, Hostage Taker, and Strix are probably the top 4 (Don't like Tog, sorry), but I like having a PW to represent a guild assuming its power level isn't way too low to justify. The temptation to just move up to 540 or at least 500 gets stronger everyday....
I guess we have to have a misprint every once in a while. It's a shame to have it in such a crucial place: Walking Atlas being an artifact is not a big deal, but it REALLY looks like you can just blink Hostage Taker to itself infinitely, which would be a useful option at points.
We played the card last night and it was real solid. Stealing a Cursed Scroll that eventually kills the opponent was bonkerly monstruous. The fact that it's a fun 'Lark /Recruiter target is sweet as well. The Grixis tempo player that played it really enjoyed it. Seems like a Top 6, maybe Top 5, Dimir staple.
FWIW, we did play the card as if it has been already errata.
Your testing results are mirroring ours. If they have an answer right away, it plays like a bigger hybrid between Fiend Hunter and Leonin Relic-Warder. If you cast the target from exile before they kill this guy, it's a clean 3-for-1 and is just fantastic. Plus, being able to attack artifacts is something that both blue and black have historically struggled with, and this guy is a great answer. I think this might very well crack the top 4.
I love this card but refuse to cut Tezz or the Scarab God. For me it's between Psychatog and Baleful Strix. Not sure if this gal beats out either of them though.
Strix goes in every single UB deck and is a nice piece for the artifact deck, which it seems like you support. I cut Tog and while it was a tough cut, I was the only one who ever drafted it.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
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Modern: UGRDelver
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I run Strix, Tezzeret, and Silumgar. Will test this over Silumgar. I may ultimately just play Scarab God in that slot, but I haven't picked one up due to price so far.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Don't want to sound like a dick but there is no way there is no bias in that statement. There is absolutely no chance that Tog is the best Dimir card. I'd pick more than one Dimir card over Tog any day of the week.
We all have different experiences and by extension different perspectives. My experiences would lead me to find that claim to be quite the exaggeration as well, but in cube the phrase YMMV applies more often than not. In his cube and his experience, I believe Tog may well be the absolute nuts and the #1 Dimir card. Generally speaking, I don't think so.
I'm tossing up between Tezzeret and Psychatog as my cut to test this out. It will probably be 'tog, just because he's fallen out of favor a bit with my crew. I'd personally cut Tezz, but the guys enjoy the artifact deck when it comes together and he's always solid there. Psychatog is fine, but I think he's pretty far from being the best Dimir card. My ranking currently would be Strix > Silumgar > Scarab God > Tog > Tezzeret. I just think the first three three are more exciting. Strix makes every single deck playing UB, which is just not true with Psychatog, at least not for my group. The dragon and the god draw people to Dimir in a way that Psychatog doesn't. And Tezzeret is excellent archetype support. It's unfortunate because I do like Psychatog, but it's probably time for it to go.
Don't want to sound like a dick but there is no way there is no bias in that statement. There is absolutely no chance that Tog is the best Dimir card. I'd pick more than one Dimir card over Tog any day of the week.
Perhaps there's no way there is no bias in your statement? #mindblown
Just because you would pick other cards over it doesn't mean you're right. I think it's the best Dimir card. I think it has the highest upside for the cost, and I think it does things that absolutely no other Magic card can do for the cost. You don't have to agree, but ...too bad. This place is for sharing opinions. In my opinion, it's the best Dimir card.
This creature may be better than Scarab God for cube but I feel like blue black decks need a 5 drop boss finisher more than they need a 4 drop removal/valuetown creature. I think I may be passing on this.
Tog is good but there are more graveyard outlets now with Jace and Heir of Falkenrath, making it a little less necessary for reanimator decks. The activation cost is pretty steep on both ends, especially with delve cards competing for graveyard fuel. Tog feels great when it works, but being a 3 mana 1/2 unless you start chucking cards feels pretty bad. Yeah, it can attack for 15 once in a while, but it dies to every burn spell in the format unless you start pitching several cards at a time.
Again, I like it just fine, but I was the only one in my group who ever played it. I put Silumgar in and it's put people in UB decks. That may not be "correct," but I'm an English teacher and don't really believe in objectivity in these kinds of things anyway. It's at least close enough to Silumgar, Scarab God, and probably Hostage Taker so that reasonable minds can disagree on this. Because I was the only one who ever played it in my group, it got cut. Painful, sure, but it was essentially a dead card in our drafts.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Tog is good but there are more graveyard outlets now with Jace and Heir of Falkenrath, making it a little less necessary for reanimator decks. The activation cost is pretty steep on both ends, especially with delve cards competing for graveyard fuel. Tog feels great when it works, but being a 3 mana 1/2 unless you start chucking cards feels pretty bad. Yeah, it can attack for 15 once in a while, but it dies to every burn spell in the format unless you start pitching several cards at a time.
Again, I like it just fine, but I was the only one in my group who ever played it. I put Silumgar in and it's put people in UB decks. That may not be "correct," but I'm an English teacher and don't really believe in objectivity in these kinds of things anyway. It's at least close enough to Silumgar, Scarab God, and probably Hostage Taker so that reasonable minds can disagree on this. Because I was the only one who ever played it in my group, it got cut. Painful, sure, but it was essentially a dead card in our drafts.
My experience has been similar. Silumgar has seen a lot more play in my cube than Tog did, despite Tog being an incredibly powerful discard enabler and occasional win condition.
My section is currently Finkel, Silumgar, Tezz AOB and Strix. Testing this over Finkel.
I was going to try to say that Psychatog is mostly in for nostalgia and price tag, but then I looked back through all the UB cards and maybe I'm not missing anything. I wouldn't say it's top 3 on power level (I'm pretty sure that's Strix, Ashiok, Silumgar 2), but it does pull archetypes together and act as a big dumb creature to finish the game.
What it has going in its favor are:
-Once the target is recast, if the opponent has a removal spell, you keep the target
-HT gets the ETB trigger for its target
But I don't think those are actually advantages due to the following drawbacks:
-If your opponent has a removal spell, they get their creature back in either scenario (killing HT before you untap)
-When that happens, they get any ETB triggers again for all the value you were trying to get
Then comparing a 4-mana 2/3 body wih a 6-mana 3/6 Flying Deathtouch body, Silumgar's broader target pool and the cost of actually recasting a worthwhile target, I'm not convinced Hostage taker locks a top spot in Dimir. And I think The Scarab God, Agent of Bolas and Psychatog do more to support distinct archeypes than Hostage Taker, which defaults to a midrangey Nekrataal/Faceless Butcher variant.
Then comparing a 4-mana 2/3 body wih a 6-mana 3/6 Flying Deathtouch body, Silumgar's broader target pool and the cost of actually recasting a worthwhile target,
Silumgar is a 3/5. But more importantly, I think Hostage Taker has the broader target pool. Instead of hitting creatures + 'walkers, it hits creatures + artifacts, and there's quite a few more of the latter.
Specifically, the artifact component is quite important, as UB has very few ways to permanently deal with a problematic artifact in the cube. This is a nice maindeckable answer to a permanent type that has historically struggled with.
In powered cubes in particular, the ability to blow up a Mox and immediately replay it is really strong. Functioning like a 2/3 creature for 4 with a Mwonvuli Acid-Moss ETB trigger.
Evaluating guild cards is tricky sometimes, especially when it comes to ranking them. Some folks prefer to make their analysis base on pure power : Isthis card the most powerful of its kind at doing one specific thing (for example, Boros Charm and Psychatog)? Others tend to rely on versatily : This card is great because it goes into any XY decks. Lastly, some prefer cards that are great archetype enablers, like Tezzeret and Edric for example.
Personnally, we love cards that are great and versatile at the same time. Hostage Taker is one of them, as Dragonlord Silumgar. While we do think that the first one is better, both card are fantastic and deserve cube time. FWIW, we also love the archetype's ones, but the more your guild slots are dedictaded to versatile cards, the more your cube is going to feel smooth during draft session.
Evaluating guild cards is tricky sometimes, especially when it comes to ranking them. Some folks prefer to make their analysis base on pure power : Isthis card the most powerful of its kind at doing one specific thing (for example, Boros Charm and Psychatog)? Others tend to rely on versatily : This card is great because it goes into any XY decks. Lastly, some prefer cards that are great archetype enablers, like Tezzeret and Edric for example.
Personnally, we love cards that are great and versatile at the same time. Hostage Taker is one of them, as Dragonlord Silumgar. While we do think that the first one is better, both card are fantastic and deserve cube time. FWIW, we also love the archetype's ones, but the more your guild slots are dedictaded to versatile cards, the more your cube is going to feel smooth during draft session.
Cube size matters a lot too. The bigger your cube is, the harder it is to support defined archetypes. You can encourage some themes, but since your draft pool is probably a random 360 out of the full number, you have no reason to believe the key cards for any archetype will be available for you. So cards which are individually powerful and flexible take greater priority. I think Hostage Taker is one of those.
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I guess we have to have a misprint every once in a while. It's a shame to have it in such a crucial place: Walking Atlas being an artifact is not a big deal, but it REALLY looks like you can just blink Hostage Taker to itself infinitely, which would be a useful option at points.
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FWIW, we did play the card as if it has been already errata.
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EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
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Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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Don't want to sound like a dick but there is no way there is no bias in that statement. There is absolutely no chance that Tog is the best Dimir card. I'd pick more than one Dimir card over Tog any day of the week.
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Perhaps there's no way there is no bias in your statement? #mindblown
Just because you would pick other cards over it doesn't mean you're right. I think it's the best Dimir card. I think it has the highest upside for the cost, and I think it does things that absolutely no other Magic card can do for the cost. You don't have to agree, but ...too bad. This place is for sharing opinions. In my opinion, it's the best Dimir card.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Again, I like it just fine, but I was the only one in my group who ever played it. I put Silumgar in and it's put people in UB decks. That may not be "correct," but I'm an English teacher and don't really believe in objectivity in these kinds of things anyway. It's at least close enough to Silumgar, Scarab God, and probably Hostage Taker so that reasonable minds can disagree on this. Because I was the only one who ever played it in my group, it got cut. Painful, sure, but it was essentially a dead card in our drafts.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
My experience has been similar. Silumgar has seen a lot more play in my cube than Tog did, despite Tog being an incredibly powerful discard enabler and occasional win condition.
My section is currently Finkel, Silumgar, Tezz AOB and Strix. Testing this over Finkel.
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On Hostage Taker, I don't think it compares well to Dragonlord Silumgar.
What it has going in its favor are:
-Once the target is recast, if the opponent has a removal spell, you keep the target
-HT gets the ETB trigger for its target
But I don't think those are actually advantages due to the following drawbacks:
-If your opponent has a removal spell, they get their creature back in either scenario (killing HT before you untap)
-When that happens, they get any ETB triggers again for all the value you were trying to get
Then comparing a 4-mana 2/3 body wih a 6-mana 3/6 Flying Deathtouch body, Silumgar's broader target pool and the cost of actually recasting a worthwhile target, I'm not convinced Hostage taker locks a top spot in Dimir. And I think The Scarab God, Agent of Bolas and Psychatog do more to support distinct archeypes than Hostage Taker, which defaults to a midrangey Nekrataal/Faceless Butcher variant.
Silumgar is a 3/5. But more importantly, I think Hostage Taker has the broader target pool. Instead of hitting creatures + 'walkers, it hits creatures + artifacts, and there's quite a few more of the latter.
Specifically, the artifact component is quite important, as UB has very few ways to permanently deal with a problematic artifact in the cube. This is a nice maindeckable answer to a permanent type that has historically struggled with.
In powered cubes in particular, the ability to blow up a Mox and immediately replay it is really strong. Functioning like a 2/3 creature for 4 with a Mwonvuli Acid-Moss ETB trigger.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Personnally, we love cards that are great and versatile at the same time. Hostage Taker is one of them, as Dragonlord Silumgar. While we do think that the first one is better, both card are fantastic and deserve cube time. FWIW, we also love the archetype's ones, but the more your guild slots are dedictaded to versatile cards, the more your cube is going to feel smooth during draft session.
Zetsu's Cube on CubeTutor.com
Zetsu's Ebay MTG Online Store
Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
Cube size matters a lot too. The bigger your cube is, the harder it is to support defined archetypes. You can encourage some themes, but since your draft pool is probably a random 360 out of the full number, you have no reason to believe the key cards for any archetype will be available for you. So cards which are individually powerful and flexible take greater priority. I think Hostage Taker is one of those.