MTG Salvation

Crystalline Crawler has been very good for me and there is more +1/+1 counter synergy all the time, with teh and Hangerback setting the bar this ting just doesn't get there.

Fwiw, the literal translation would be "Striding Ballista".

I don't know, I'm not big on Trikskelion. It's only really good if you can blink or recur it, 6 mana is just a bit too much for a 3/3 that you can sacc for an Arc Lightning. The new one cannot be blinked, but is much better on its own, because of the scalability/versatility.

I'd say 1/1 flyers are worth more than 1 damage, so Hangerback Walker seems better. I also wish it would be cheaper to grow, I don't see myself paying the 4 very often.

I think the overlap of decks that would want both Triskelion and Ballista is not big. Triskelion is there for blink/reanimate shenanigans, Ballista is a mana sink for super ramp and artifact decks. They do not fill the same roles and the competition between them is not direct.

Mostly agree. Trike goes into decks that can break it somehow. This will go into decks that are looking for the flexibility or decks that want good mana-sinks. The only real overlap will be the artifact.dec, which will probably want both.

This card looks great though. Unlike Hangarback, you don't have to tap it to grow it (this is kinda big). And while this is down, and you have the ability to make 4 mana, the opponent can never resolve another 1-toughness creature. And their 2-toughness creatures aren't going to be safe either; especially if this has a few turns to charge up.

Seems fun and scaleable. I like mana sinks, even if this one is very expensive; but I can see that it couldn't haven been costed much cheaper. I'm thinking to test out Crystalline Crawler and this guy too if and when I get around to it.

FWIW, Hangarback has been excellent for us.

Ya, Hangarback is sweet. I've enjoyed the flexibility.

This creature has been awesome in testing.

Triskelion is good because it's abusable. Hangarback Walker is good because it gets value off of the death trigger. This card doesn't have any of that going for it. Now if you are running a +1/+1 counter theme (hardened scales, et all)? Then I think this guy might be worth including. This could be especially juicy with some proliferate cards.

I might be underrating the scalable colorless burn angle, but this versatility argument sounds strikly similar to the one I was making for Endless One (which at least always maintains a cost to power ratio - this card is just pure inefficiency across the board). Don't you pretty much want to be playing any other card at all points on the curve?

You'll need a crap ton of mana to make this an actual finisher (and it still won't have evasion), so other than a late game mana sink pinger what is this doing? It goes back to some of the janky green removal we've all tried to run and ultimately abandoned because it's just so much easier and more efficient to splash and get removal from a color that doesn't suck at removing things.

2 colorless mana and a card to kill BOP and Bob is worth it, but how many other scenarios will this be true to justify a physical card in your deck? And how many times will you just wish it was incinerate or a dude that actually does damage in combat?

Scalable removal that can become a threat >>>>>> scalable vanilla creature

More testing with the card last night... it's so good. Cheap removal, scaleable body that grows into a legit threat, removal that interrupts the opponent's ability to curve. It's great.

Most decks in my cube are curving to 4. The aggro decks have only a few 4 drops, the midrange have a couple of 5 and 6, and the control/combo a few more than that. It is turn 4 at the earliest before this is more than gut shot, I am not sure, that forked bolt for 4 mana is getting there either. I know there is a creature attacking side to this too and I can see it growing out of hand once you get to big mana. But the decks that seem to want this are casting things like Jace, wrath, and control magic for 4. Some games you might smoke my BoP and BOB with your turn 4 play and that is great but what about the goblin guide into Kari Zev backed by bolts plan?

Don't get me wrong, this thing has a ton of interaction possibilities and once you untap with it and 4+ mana, and aren't staring down a bunch of dudes it gets really exciting, but so do most 4 drops in cube. It feels like murderous redcap or grenzo to me in a way. Both of which are interesting cards but have been nosed out by things that don't diddle around as much.

A Forked Bolt for 4 is such a disingenuous evaluation of this card. There is value in flexibility. Everflowing Chalice is a garbage card at every point in the curve it can fill. But it's a great cube card because of the flexibility it has. Ballista is no different, except it can also grow after it resolves too.

But I wrote about it ad nauseum in my article, and I'll be enjoying this card in the cube for a long time. Looking forward to seeing even more from it!

Quote from wtwlf123 »

A Forked Bolt for 4 is such a disingenuous evaluation of this card. There is value in flexibility. Everflowing Chalice is a garbage card at every point in the curve it can fill. But it's a great cube card because of the flexibility it has. Ballista is no different, except it can also grow after it resolves too.

But I wrote about it ad nauseum in my article, and I'll be enjoying this card in the cube for a long time. Looking forward to seeing even more from it!

Nothing wrong with liking a card or finding it working in your group. I dropped Chalice as well so what do I know. And hell my favorite deck plays Berserk and Temur Battle Rage with Kiln Fiend, maybe a Ballista sitting across the board would sober me up.

And yes forked bolt is a harsh comparison. I probably spend too much time trying not to get blown out in the early game.

Powered cube might have more access to mana, which might account for why this card and Chalice work so well in some lists. I found Chalice to be really awful outside proliferate shenanigans. Very rarely did I have 4 mana to dump into it at a point in the game where that was something that was really going to help me (either I need a non-mana generating mana sink or I was behind and it was too slow).

In my midrange cube I have a strong +1/+1 counter theme and this card works there. Again, I may also just not be appreciating the colorless burn (this card does look better when I think about it as a slightly overcosted seal of fire - a card I absolutely love). So I'll be watching the feedback on this despite being bearish on it.

Can anyone specify if they think this is as good as it is at 360?

Quote from SaucyFaucet »

Can anyone specify if they think this is as good as it is at 360?

I've gotten maybe 6 or so full cubes with the card now, like it a fair bit.

I think around the 360-450 range where it belongs... probably wouldn't play it in most 360's and would probably play it in almost every 450 list..

That sounds about right to me too. I've been enjoying the flexibility quite a bit, but 360 is tough.

I definitely agree, that mystic space between 360-450 exists! If I can find some room, the flexibility and utility is obvious. 4 mana is super steep for rebuilding, but that's already icing.

Whap happened to the includes/testing results thread?

I've thoroughly enjoyed this card in a red white artifact deck (Balance, Plow, Path, Signets).
It's really your option of the following:
2 Mana:
Hornet Sting
Mogg Fanatic w/ ability to grow

4 Mana:
Shock
2/2 that deals a min of 2 in it's lifespan with okay growth (as you already have the lands for it)

6 Mana:
Lightning Bolt?
3/3 that deals a min of 3 in it's lifespan with decent growth (as you already have the lands for it and more)

It's all these possibilities in your hand, and makes boardstalls excellent. It seems best suited in reactive decks like control, as it's instant speed growth. A must try imo.

Part of Triskelion's role is to go infinite with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. Walking Ballista does that much better, because you can cast if for 0 to start the combo. I haven't seen that mentioned yet and I think it's pretty cool.

Edit: Forgot about the +1/+1. Mikaeus + Ballista is not a combo without another sac outlet.