Did you see that they get the card back at the end of each of your turns? That's a really important distinction over a Mind Control effect.
Yeah, but Threaten effects are much more aggressive than Control Magic effects because of the untap / haste. Control Magic effects can be a bummer if I need another blocker because the creature that I need to steal is tapped from bashing my face in already. Frenzied Fugue works out all the kinks of poor timing and removes a blocker / adds an attacker on your turn every time (assuming it's a creature).
Control Magic effects can be a bummer if I need another blocker because the creature that I need to steal is tapped from bashing my face in already.
That's exactly the point, this creature has the same issue because your opponent gets whatever you steal back in his turn to do with as he pleases. You will never block with a creature stolen (or rather, borrowed) with Frenzied Fugue. I wonder how many people are still missing this rather crucial detail.
Control Magic effects can be a bummer if I need another blocker because the creature that I need to steal is tapped from bashing my face in already.
That's exactly the point, this creature has the same issue because your opponent gets whatever you steal back in his turn to do with as he pleases. You will never block with a creature stolen (or rather, borrowed) with Frenzied Fugue. I wonder how many people are still missing this rather crucial detail.
I'm not excited by this card.
That's the nature of Threaten effects: they're purely offensive, I really don't mind that I'm not able to block as long as I'm able to kill my opponent first.
I'm also not excited. Zealous Conscripts looks much more abusable in conjunction with creature recursion and sac-outlets. I will give it a testing run though, because I think this card is hard to evaluate.
I also have my doubts, but 4-mana repeatable Threaten is unprecedented. I think this card deserves to extensive testing for anybody cubing Yasova Dragonclaw.
No need to shut down discussion just because you don't like the card.
I assume you're talking about my comment, but that doesn't make any sense, because I was furthering discussion, not shutting it down. Disagreeing with someone, or pointing out important distinctions between card effects isn't shutting down discussion.
The opponent getting the card back on each of their turns and being able to attack you with it is a critical difference between a card like this and a card like Control Magic. And that distinction pigeonholes this effect into aggressive-only strategies because it provides little to no defensive value.
I'm sorry that my contribution isn't another glowing endorsement of the card, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to contribute to the discussion. So if you would, please stop trying to shut down discussion just because I disagree with you.
Control Magic effects can be a bummer if I need another blocker because the creature that I need to steal is tapped from bashing my face in already.
That's exactly the point, this creature has the same issue because your opponent gets whatever you steal back in his turn to do with as he pleases. You will never block with a creature stolen (or rather, borrowed) with Frenzied Fugue. I wonder how many people are still missing this rather crucial detail.
I'm not excited by this card.
That's the nature of Threaten effects: they're purely offensive, I really don't mind that I'm not able to block as long as I'm able to kill my opponent first.
My point was that it's an important detail when comparing it to a Mind Control effect. It's more comparable to a Threaten effect than a Control Magic effect because of this exact scenario.
I think this card is sweet. Hitting any type of permanent is such a huge plus, mostly due to the existence of planeswalkers.
There are two main ways to look at Frenzied Fugue:
It is an all-permanentThreaten with rebound (or even tribound or quadbound, if necessary).
It is a red 4-manaConfiscate with the drawback of giving the permanent back to its owner during their turns.
Either way, it is a strong card for red. Zealous Conscripts mihgt be better, but larger cubes can use a second version of this effect.
Cool card...
It's a good Agro curve topper and a great sideboard card against slower decks.
I've run zealous conscripts since it's printing, and have always been impressed with the power of stealing a permanent for one turn.
I love the card but don't think I'd run it if I didn't support kiki combo.
Being a mana cheaper and repeatedly stealing the permanent offsets a lot of the downside relative to conscripts. Lack of abusability, no combo applications, 3/3 body.
If you took out Kiki combo interactions, I'm leaning towards this card being slightly better.
I'm going to test it , but overall I think it's unlikely to stick. Slot is too competitive.
If you like Zealous Conscripts effects, Frenzied Fugue is definitely worth checking out. It's a pretty high variance card in an extremely competitive slot, so it's not exactly a staple. This card will definitely create a lot of interesting cube stories, playing tug of war with an Elspeth, Sun's Champion or Griselbrand is pretty funny.
Anyone still running this and have stories to share? I'm in the midst of a massive cube update/minor overhaul and this card looks fun. Haven't really considered it till now.
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Yeah, but Threaten effects are much more aggressive than Control Magic effects because of the untap / haste. Control Magic effects can be a bummer if I need another blocker because the creature that I need to steal is tapped from bashing my face in already. Frenzied Fugue works out all the kinks of poor timing and removes a blocker / adds an attacker on your turn every time (assuming it's a creature).
I like how this can steal lands in a pinch, haha.
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I'm not excited by this card.
That's the nature of Threaten effects: they're purely offensive, I really don't mind that I'm not able to block as long as I'm able to kill my opponent first.
I also have my doubts, but 4-mana repeatable Threaten is unprecedented. I think this card deserves to extensive testing for anybody cubing Yasova Dragonclaw.
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I assume you're talking about my comment, but that doesn't make any sense, because I was furthering discussion, not shutting it down. Disagreeing with someone, or pointing out important distinctions between card effects isn't shutting down discussion.
The opponent getting the card back on each of their turns and being able to attack you with it is a critical difference between a card like this and a card like Control Magic. And that distinction pigeonholes this effect into aggressive-only strategies because it provides little to no defensive value.
I'm sorry that my contribution isn't another glowing endorsement of the card, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to contribute to the discussion. So if you would, please stop trying to shut down discussion just because I disagree with you.
My point was that it's an important detail when comparing it to a Mind Control effect. It's more comparable to a Threaten effect than a Control Magic effect because of this exact scenario.
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There are two main ways to look at Frenzied Fugue:
It is an all-permanent Threaten with rebound (or even tribound or quadbound, if necessary).
It is a red 4-mana Confiscate with the drawback of giving the permanent back to its owner during their turns.
Either way, it is a strong card for red. Zealous Conscripts mihgt be better, but larger cubes can use a second version of this effect.
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It's a good Agro curve topper and a great sideboard card against slower decks.
I've run zealous conscripts since it's printing, and have always been impressed with the power of stealing a permanent for one turn.
I love the card but don't think I'd run it if I didn't support kiki combo.
Being a mana cheaper and repeatedly stealing the permanent offsets a lot of the downside relative to conscripts. Lack of abusability, no combo applications, 3/3 body.
If you took out Kiki combo interactions, I'm leaning towards this card being slightly better.
I'm going to test it , but overall I think it's unlikely to stick. Slot is too competitive.
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trying to consider space for this over kari zev's expertise
If you like Zealous Conscripts effects, Frenzied Fugue is definitely worth checking out. It's a pretty high variance card in an extremely competitive slot, so it's not exactly a staple. This card will definitely create a lot of interesting cube stories, playing tug of war with an Elspeth, Sun's Champion or Griselbrand is pretty funny.
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