MTG Salvation

In the the previous Straw Poll the community voted to exclude all Conspiracy-type cards (e.g. Backup Plan, Double Stroke) and silver-bordered cards from the Unglued and Unhinged sets (e.g. City of Ass, Blast from the Past) from the main Power Rankings. They are not to be compared to or ranked against other cards in any existing category including Overall this year. However, some interest has been expressed by some community members in the main PR thread who voted to exclude as well as include these cards to create a 12th category for non-traditional cards as an addendum to the Power Rankings after the Overall vote has finished, in which these cards will be voted on and ranked solely in comparison to each other.

The poll above is to gauge how many members of the community intend to participate in voting in this kind of category, so please only vote here now if you plan to vote then. This project will only go forward if at least 10 people vote "yes" in this poll.

This thread is also a good place to discuss exactly what that category/addendum should look like. Here's what I proposed in the main Power Rankings thread:

My thought was to create a single category for all non-traditional cards which would include Conspiracies, Un-cards, and all other cards that were previously excluded like holiday promos, 5-color Magic, Theros Hero Cards, etc. As far as I'm concerned, since these cards are excluded from the primary Power Rankings, you might as well scrap the "contributes to game wins" metric in any vote on them because as has already been brought up these cards are pretty disparate. I think it's also pretty clear that no matter what, there will be a smaller group of people voting on them. It really might as well be a simple vote for "best" or "favorite" at this point.

I'm looking forward to seeing the results of this vote, and to hearing the community's thoughts on this issue.

This poll will close 48 hours from the time of this post, at 12:00 a.m. on Monday, October 10th Eastern Standard Time.

I don't think conspiracies and uncards should be in their own sections. They aren't worth comparing to each other. I would rather have a list for conspiracies only and just keep uncards out if they aren't going to go in the sections where they would go if they were normal cards (green for symbol status, blue for magical hacker, etc).

Although I'd like to see the results of such a vote, I voted no on voting myself. I voted no here for the same reason that I voted against including these cards in their respective colors. I have no idea how to rank the Un cards or even which Un cards should be up for inclusion. I honestly don't think there's enough desire for this specific voting category to warrant the time and effort from those running the project. Your time is better spent on something more meaningful. If I want to know what the best cards for my Conspiracy module are, I can dig into a few lists that also include that and gather ideas from there. After all, cards aren't really competing for slots there, so it doesn't really matter which one is best and which one is the worst.

Voted yes.

I think it is good to see what people consider to be the strongest conspiracies. I'd rather have un-cards mixed in than regular cards. Which is why I am very happy about a seperate section for those cards.

I'll do my best to come up with a ranking. It's lower stakes now that it's not mixed in with everything else. It will also help me figure out what I want in my own conspiracy module, once I get to work on that.

Conspiricy cards will proabaly end up needing their own category eventually assuming it's something wizards will be revisiting many times in the future. Afew more conspiricy sets and we will just need to revisit the question then.

Un cards I'd prefer in colour, but I voted yes for simplicity as I see people point on keeping them separate from colours.

YES

I think Conspiracies should have their own section, we have now seen two sets that feature conspiracies and I wouldn't be surprised to see them again in the future.

If anything, the people who play conspiracies should have the opportunity to vote on them. Regardless of those who don't, think.

OK, there were 10 votes to create a new category for non-traditional cards to be voted on after the Overall Power Rankings are complete. They will only be compared to each other, and not to any of the cards in the main Power Rankings.

Now let's talk about how this is going to work.

Un cards I'd prefer in colour

That's not an option this year. The community already voted not to rank Conspiracies or Un-cards alongside any other kind of cube card in this year's Power Rankings in the previous Straw Poll. This was extensively discussed and voted on, please do not bring this up again until discussion of next year's Power Rankings begins.

It looks like there's a question of whether or not Conspiracy cards should be ranked alongside of Un-cards (and other non-traditional cards like holiday promos, 5-color Magic, and Hero cards) or not, or as two separate categories. We should also discuss and vote on whether we're ranking these cards based on power level (effectiveness in contributing to game wins) or by a more subjective criteria of best or favorite. I'm creating 2 new poll questions to settle this, feel free to take a week to hash this out.

This poll will close on Monday, October 17th.

I'd vote on them separately, and vote on them according to the same metric we used to vote on all the other card categories.

If they are separated, can I vote on just one category? I'd rather skip the un-cards voting because I have no real experience with them, but I can rank the conspiracies just fine.

Quote from willdice »

If they are separated, can I vote on just one category? I'd rather skip the un-cards voting because I have no real experience with them, but I can rank the conspiracies just fine.

There's certainly no reason you couldn't if they end up being separated, which appears to be the likely outcome.

It seems to me that the silver-bordered cards worth talking about are:


That's 24, being kind of generous with inclusion. There are 25 conspiracy cards, with about 3 being bad in cube. I think that's enough to break them into separate lists.

Just out of curiousity would the Holiday cards be included in the Un- section?

Gifts Given is a real card in that enviornment

I would think so, yes.

Quote from psly4mne »

It seems to me that the silver-bordered cards worth talking about are:

• Look at Me, I'm R&D
  
• Staying Power
  
• Once More With Feeling
  
• Magical Hacker
  
• Free-For-All
  
• Topsy Turvy
  
• Gifts Given
  
• Richard Garfield, Ph.D.
  
• Greater Morphling
  
• Booster Tutor
  
• Duh!
  
• Enter The Dungeon
  
• Frazzled Editor
  
• Blast from the Past
  
• Symbol Status
  
• Uktabi Kong
  
• Incoming!
  
• Meddling Kids
  
• "Ach! Hans, Run!"
  
• Who/What/When/Where/Why
  
• Naughty/Nice
  
• Jack-in-the-Mox
  
• Mox Lotus
  
• City of Ass
  

That's 24, being kind of generous with inclusion. There are 25 conspiracy cards, with about 3 being bad in cube. I think that's enough to break them into separate lists.

Actually, everyone thinks we're crazy but Necro-Impotence is the best black Un-card and the best silver bordered card overall. In fact, its likely better than Contract from Below.

If you have 30 cards in your library it basically reads "pay 14.5 life: draw your deck".

Mise is also supportable and its awesome if you do support it.

And in Snow cubes, Cold Snap is the best white card.

Also, Gleemax. If you cheat it early, you basically win the game.

Quote from Marl_Karx »

Actually, everyone thinks we're crazy but Necro-Impotence is the best black Un-card and the best silver bordered card overall. In fact, its likely better than Contract from Below.

If you have 30 cards in your library it basically reads "pay 14.5 life: draw your deck".

That is surprising to me. We were never happy with Necropotence (it was great when it was cast, but so rarely maindecked in the first place). Aside from the BBB cost, how were decks able to win under the untapping restriction?

If they are separated, can I vote on just one category? I'd rather skip the un-cards voting because I have no real experience with them, but I can rank the conspiracies just fine.

If 2 categories wins, I don't see why not. I think it's a bit odd that only 3 people have voted on that question so far while 15 have voted on the metric to be used. I'll just run them both at the same time in the same thread to save time, but as far as I'm concerned, feel free to vote for either or both.

Just out of curiousity would the Holiday cards be included in the Un- section?

Unless you guys insist and give me a good reason to do otherwise, yes. This category will include everything that isn't otherwise covered that's been printed by WotC. Holiday cards, 5-color Magic, Archenemy schemes, Theros Hero cards, etc.

And in Snow cubes, Cold Snap is the best white card.

Cold Snap is a tournament legal card, and should be voted on in the White section.

The community has spoken loudly and clearly!

2 categories beats 1 category wins 17-3

Power beats Favorite 18-2

To save time, I'll open up a single thread for the non-traditionals after Overall Rankings are done. We can vote for the top 10 Conspiracies, and the top 20 non-traditional cards. Even though it'll only be in a single thread, feel free to vote for either or both categories.