I've found this to be awful thus far. Dies to everything, and the decks that want it don't want to be tapping creatures. I've drafted it a ton in the legacy cube online and have been disappointed every time.
I've found this to be awful thus far. Dies to everything, and the decks that want it don't want to be tapping creatures. I've drafted it a ton in the legacy cube online and have been disappointed every time.
tbh I hardly ever want to be a Smuggler's Copter deck in modo cube
Can't speak for MTGO, but I've been enjoying it in my cube. It's far more fragile than it is in Standard (thus the ban) but it's been pretty far from "bad". Solid value effect to strap to loose utility bodies, and the evasion it provides is good at pressuring early 'walkers.
MTGO cubes doesn't support aggro well, especially the Vintage one. So unless your playing W/x or R/X aggro, it's almost a no-go in there. Blue doesn't want it like it wants the traditionnal 2-mana looters and green wants to tap its 1 power dudes to ramp stuff out. The rest of the field ther wants to combo out with creature less lists. That's unfortunately how it works, most of the time, on MTGO... With that said, it doesn't mean Smuggler's Copter isn't great in general.
I've found this to be awful thus far. Dies to everything, and the decks that want it don't want to be tapping creatures. I've drafted it a ton in the legacy cube online and have been disappointed every time.
My experiences differ significantly (in modo cube).
Think it's great.. not a high pick, but not a late pick either.
Its vulnerable to both artifact destruction and creature removal which makes it a bit fragile, but it's stats are absurd, looting is great and it gives wrath insurance.
If there's a knock on Smuggler's Copter in cube, it's that the beauty of Copter is that it makes a weak resource into a very strong one... but some cube decks don't have weak resources. Sure, lots of things make tokens, but usually it's not your whole deck. Most aggro cube one-drops are capable of producing two damage by themselves, and three damage is the starting baseline for most two-drops. Plus, almost all instant-speed cube removal can kill it, along with all the artifact removal people were running anyway.
It's still a really solid card and worth running/drafting, but it usually won't shine as brightly as it did in Standard.
Creature decks in cube often have creatures that are 'upgraded' by Copter. Yeah, those creatures do have 2 power/3 toughness, but flying can't be ignored since my 2/1 is doing nothing when tokens or llanowar elves are in the way. I can't think of many cube decks that don't have a number of creatures improved by crewing copter, either due to summoning sickness or not being a 3/3 looting flier.
I partially agree with that criticism. While it's true that a deck filled with Pikers and Bears will still get value from Copter, I do prefer to use Copter in decks where it'll have a reasonable chance of providing a bigger boost. Cards like Recruiter(s), Blade Splicer and the like get a really significant push from 'Copter; moreso than just the traditional aggro beaters do.
If there's a knock on Smuggler's Copter in cube, it's that the beauty of Copter is that it makes a weak resource into a very strong one... but some cube decks don't have weak resources. Sure, lots of things make tokens, but usually it's not your whole deck. Most aggro cube one-drops are capable of producing two damage by themselves, and three damage is the starting baseline for most two-drops.
I don't agree with this part of your comment. Usually, you're using creatures with summoning sickness to trigger copter, not creatures that would be able to actually attack. Your argument kinda applies when the Copter is used on defense, though.
Sure, but Copter is also filling a spot in your deck that might otherwise be filled with a normal two-drop capable of swinging on its own. Copter lets you swing on T3 when you play a body behind it and crew it... but so does playing a Kari Zev or Scrapheap Scrounger or whatever on T2. And while a 3/3 flier that loots for two mana is about as good as it gets for cube two-drops... you do have to keep it crewed, which is not guaranteed. On turns where you've run out of bodies to play, you've got to use a second resource to maintain that 3/3 flier.
When the resource you're using is some 1/1 Goblin or Squirrel token, it feels pretty great. But if you've got to use a full cube card to crew it, you're (usually) giving up what that card was going to bring you that turn. And cube cards are better than average cards from other formats, so the exchange feels worse than it would elsewhere.
So how is this card still doing in cubes these days? We ended up never even testing it, and I still don't think there are many decks that want it but I could be wildly off with my evaluation.
Can you explain? Personally if I can choose any card to put together a deck, Copter would not be on my list (certainly not for an aggro deck). What am I missing?
I mean, I can understand that the card can see play if it ends up in a pile. But what deck *needs* Copter and would pick it up early? How is it 'superb', in a context where cards like Umezawa's Jitte and Tangle Wire exist? I just don't get it.
How does Copter compare to a card like Looter il-Kor? That's a card I value highly (although calling it 'superb' would be quite the stretch), it has the same CMC and it serves a similar purpose (attacking and looting). Is Copter a colorless version of that? It seems to me that being dependent on other creatures to do anything is quite the drawback.
First of all, in the draft portion, you get a colorless two drop that let's you stay open in terms of color and as opterown mentioned, strategy too.
Then, in gameplay the Copter hits hard (3 power, evasive dude) and filters your draws. If you are flooding out, swap some lands for potential gas. Need lands, ditch your 3-4 drops. Yes, this is the same ability as the Looter il-Kor, but it gives it to colors that may not usually have access to them (thinking mainly of white). It also hits way harder than the Looter.
The downside is that you "sacrifice" a creature every turn. However, if you are curving out, the creature you are tapping is likely one that has summoning sickness that wouldn't be attacking anyways. Or you have a random token from anything and you use that to crew. In practice, it's not very difficult to activate it and can sometimes get an attack in when you otherwise wouldn't have been able to.
Tldr;
- Flexible draft pick in terms of color and strategy
- Hard hitting evasive 2 drop
- Filtering draws in any color
- Not very hard to crew at an advantage
I get that it can do all that, if the cards fall the right way. What I don't get is how that makes the copter 'superb'. To me it sounds like the definition of a filler card.
I get that it can do all that, if the cards fall the right way. What I don't get is how that makes the copter 'superb'. To me it sounds like the definition of a filler card.
What makes Smuggler's Copter superb is everything Miaou listed and the fact that Smuggler's Copter is very difficult to actually interact with. Being a flying 3/3 means it's hard to trade with in the air, and being a vehicle means it dodges a lot of sorcery speed creature removal, especially sweepers.
Smuggler's Copter is a staple in my book. Slots into any aggro deck, period.
How does Copter compare to a card like Looter il-Kor? That's a card I value highly (although calling it 'superb' would be quite the stretch), it has the same CMC and it serves a similar purpose (attacking and looting). Is Copter a colorless version of that? It seems to me that being dependent on other creatures to do anything is quite the drawback.
While they look similar on paper, I think they're very different cards. Looter il-Kor's primary function is to serve as a discard outlet first, beater second. Smuggler's Copter's primary function is to beatdown first, loot second.
Smuggler copter is so good I used to play 1 off in my modern affinity deck over the traditional spellskite.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
It's a very good card, but it's no Jitte. However, it is definitely on par with the best swords in terms of "equipment" IMO. It gives all your future plays pseudo-haste, is great with token making PW's, is hard to block or kill, and the card selection is real. I can't imagine not running it.
I put clamp and jitte above it, but it's easily on par or better than things like wargear, bonesplitter, good swords, tangle wire, etc.
@ Fredo the best way i can describe it, is that it gives all ur creatures "haste", provided they have @ least 1 power of course, b/c you cast them, tap em to crew, swing for 3 in the air & you get to draw a card. i find all of those things very useful in winning games of magic =)
asmallcat said that they ranked clamp higher but i like the copter better; i'd rather my threats not die & still draw cards. clamp is really a combo enabler, than an actual equipment/vehicle.
the reason i mentioned that to dschumm, was b/c he said that he removed the swords from his cube b/c he was tired of "protection". i believe that "protection" can lead to some un-fun game interactions, so i try to avoid those when i'm trying to have fun w/ my friends. i dont ever want someone to have a bad time playing a game w/ their buddies, b/c to be honest none of us has enuff free time to do the things we enjoy... thats my approach to EDH as well, sure i could make my decks "better" (read more competitive) but i want my friends to have a good time too. that being said, if we're playing in a tournament, then all bets are off, once $$ is paid, then i dont really care about my opponents having fun b/c i'm trying to win, its just a difference in mentality based on the situation
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
tbh I hardly ever want to be a Smuggler's Copter deck in modo cube
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Zetsu's Cube on CubeTutor.com
Zetsu's Ebay MTG Online Store
Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
My experiences differ significantly (in modo cube).
Think it's great.. not a high pick, but not a late pick either.
Its vulnerable to both artifact destruction and creature removal which makes it a bit fragile, but it's stats are absurd, looting is great and it gives wrath insurance.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
It's still a really solid card and worth running/drafting, but it usually won't shine as brightly as it did in Standard.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Sure, but Copter is also filling a spot in your deck that might otherwise be filled with a normal two-drop capable of swinging on its own. Copter lets you swing on T3 when you play a body behind it and crew it... but so does playing a Kari Zev or Scrapheap Scrounger or whatever on T2. And while a 3/3 flier that loots for two mana is about as good as it gets for cube two-drops... you do have to keep it crewed, which is not guaranteed. On turns where you've run out of bodies to play, you've got to use a second resource to maintain that 3/3 flier.
When the resource you're using is some 1/1 Goblin or Squirrel token, it feels pretty great. But if you've got to use a full cube card to crew it, you're (usually) giving up what that card was going to bring you that turn. And cube cards are better than average cards from other formats, so the exchange feels worse than it would elsewhere.
Posting this after seeing this comment:
I mean, I can understand that the card can see play if it ends up in a pile. But what deck *needs* Copter and would pick it up early? How is it 'superb', in a context where cards like Umezawa's Jitte and Tangle Wire exist? I just don't get it.
How does Copter compare to a card like Looter il-Kor? That's a card I value highly (although calling it 'superb' would be quite the stretch), it has the same CMC and it serves a similar purpose (attacking and looting). Is Copter a colorless version of that? It seems to me that being dependent on other creatures to do anything is quite the drawback.
Then, in gameplay the Copter hits hard (3 power, evasive dude) and filters your draws. If you are flooding out, swap some lands for potential gas. Need lands, ditch your 3-4 drops. Yes, this is the same ability as the Looter il-Kor, but it gives it to colors that may not usually have access to them (thinking mainly of white). It also hits way harder than the Looter.
The downside is that you "sacrifice" a creature every turn. However, if you are curving out, the creature you are tapping is likely one that has summoning sickness that wouldn't be attacking anyways. Or you have a random token from anything and you use that to crew. In practice, it's not very difficult to activate it and can sometimes get an attack in when you otherwise wouldn't have been able to.
Tldr;
- Flexible draft pick in terms of color and strategy
- Hard hitting evasive 2 drop
- Filtering draws in any color
- Not very hard to crew at an advantage
My 450ish 1vs1 cube
What makes Smuggler's Copter superb is everything Miaou listed and the fact that Smuggler's Copter is very difficult to actually interact with. Being a flying 3/3 means it's hard to trade with in the air, and being a vehicle means it dodges a lot of sorcery speed creature removal, especially sweepers.
Smuggler's Copter is a staple in my book. Slots into any aggro deck, period.
While they look similar on paper, I think they're very different cards. Looter il-Kor's primary function is to serve as a discard outlet first, beater second. Smuggler's Copter's primary function is to beatdown first, loot second.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I put clamp and jitte above it, but it's easily on par or better than things like wargear, bonesplitter, good swords, tangle wire, etc.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
asmallcat said that they ranked clamp higher but i like the copter better; i'd rather my threats not die & still draw cards. clamp is really a combo enabler, than an actual equipment/vehicle.
the reason i mentioned that to dschumm, was b/c he said that he removed the swords from his cube b/c he was tired of "protection". i believe that "protection" can lead to some un-fun game interactions, so i try to avoid those when i'm trying to have fun w/ my friends. i dont ever want someone to have a bad time playing a game w/ their buddies, b/c to be honest none of us has enuff free time to do the things we enjoy... thats my approach to EDH as well, sure i could make my decks "better" (read more competitive) but i want my friends to have a good time too. that being said, if we're playing in a tournament, then all bets are off, once $$ is paid, then i dont really care about my opponents having fun b/c i'm trying to win, its just a difference in mentality based on the situation