I couldn't find a particular scd on just time walk and wanted to get outside opinions on a problem I've been having with it recently. My last few drafts 8,6 and 3 man glimpse drafts respectively have all been destroyed by timewalk combo. One consistently won on turns 2 and 3 even and while it was insanely fun to play(it was my deck) it didn't feel good as a cube designer to see my opponent have one turn and then get frustrated that I comboed out. The longest game of my draft was 4 turns of my opponent. I have no problem with any of the other power as they all are interactive in some way, and don't seem to just end the game on the spot. I don't like a powerful noninteractive deck dominating every draft, Do I just need to include more graveyard hate, or is there something I can do to counter this?
It's a very flexible three card combo. Crystal shard isn't the only way to combo off. Reanimation works as well.
The draft where the game was over turn 2 to 4 every game had time walk with double stroke, which made it really easy to just end.
It's a very flexible three card combo. Crystal shard isn't the only way to combo off. Reanimation works as well.
The draft where the game was over turn 2 to 4 every game had time walk with double stroke, which made it really easy to just end.
If you're looking to power the combo down a bit, maybe cut Double Stroke? The Crystal Shard + E Wit + Time Walk combo has happened a bit in my cube as well, but I don't feel like it's that dominating. First of all for that combo to work, you need to find all three cards during the game. You can obviously construct your deck to make that a bit easier, but still, it's three cards that you have to find. Second of all, it's a six mana combo to go infinite and it requires specific mana. You need 2UUGG. Again, not impossible and there are other ways to abuse it besides Crystal Shard to also fall in line with that that type of deck is trying to do, but I've just not found the combo element of Time Walk to come up often enough to cause concern.
I think if you have decided to run a powered cube, you need to be willing to accept that blowouts like this are going to happen more frequently. Black Lotus --> midrange spell (Ajani Vengeant, for example) on turn 1 is often going to have the same effect, and those plays don't require any setup at all.
That said, I agree with calibretto that Double Stroke is probably the more likely culprit here if you are looking to power down. Double Stroke is crushingly strong even with more benign spells (Stone Rain? Hymn to Tourach? Regrowth?).
If you run cards like Time Walk, Double Stroke, (Black Lotus, Recall, etc), you have to be willing to accept decks that win before your opponent gets a chance to play. If you don't want your games to play that way, you play a cube that doesn't run power. Its one or the other and its why there's such a huge divide when it comes to cube philosophy. You can't have your cake and combo off with it too.
Sure
Turn 1 mystic tutor or pass,
Turn two time walk double stroked
My three eternal witness
My four time walk double stroked
My five, venser, or crystal shard
Or my 6 grew warden of murasa
I went second both times I won on my opponents turn two.
Alternatively other starts this deck had had
Turn one: lotus jtms, brainstorm him
Turn two time walk,+2 jtms
Turn three e witness+2 jtms
Turn four time walk +2 jtms
5: +2 jtms
6:+2 jtms
Their turn 2: some two drop and pass
My 7: ult jtms
I play power and I like power and explosive starts, but only one color can really fight instants... Turn 1 tinker, path to exile
Or an edict, song of dryads, mooninate.
Turn one planeswalker off lotus: mox hexmage. And those lead to cool stories of beating a great opening,
Hell, I lost a game after getting grave Titan out turn one last draft.
Sure
Turn 1 mystic tutor or pass,
Turn two time walk double stroked
My three eternal witness
My four time walk double stroked
My five, venser, or crystal shard
Or my 6 grew warden of murasa
I went second both times I won on my opponents turn two.
Alternatively other starts this deck had had
Turn one: lotus jtms, brainstorm him
Turn two time walk,+2 jtms
Turn three e witness+2 jtms
Turn four time walk +2 jtms
5: +2 jtms
6:+2 jtms
Their turn 2: some two drop and pass
My 7: ult jtms
I play power and I like power and explosive starts, but only one color can really fight instants... Turn 1 tinker, path to exile
Or an edict, song of dryads, mooninate.
Turn one planeswalker off lotus: mox hexmage. And those lead to cool stories of beating a great opening,
Hell, I lost a game after getting grave Titan out turn one last draft.
I think the real culprit are the conspiracies. Time Walk is obviously a very powerful card but scales with the environment around it.
You could put it in a pauper cube and while it would be very strong its value would be determined by what you did that turn.
In otherwords, if you are going to cut anything cut double stroke.
But if you're going to include cards like Time Walk and Double Stroke in the cube, broken stuff is supposed to happen. If you don't enjoy broken crap happening, you probably shouldn't be playing either card.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
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The draft where the game was over turn 2 to 4 every game had time walk with double stroke, which made it really easy to just end.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
If you're looking to power the combo down a bit, maybe cut Double Stroke? The Crystal Shard + E Wit + Time Walk combo has happened a bit in my cube as well, but I don't feel like it's that dominating. First of all for that combo to work, you need to find all three cards during the game. You can obviously construct your deck to make that a bit easier, but still, it's three cards that you have to find. Second of all, it's a six mana combo to go infinite and it requires specific mana. You need 2UUGG. Again, not impossible and there are other ways to abuse it besides Crystal Shard to also fall in line with that that type of deck is trying to do, but I've just not found the combo element of Time Walk to come up often enough to cause concern.
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That said, I agree with calibretto that Double Stroke is probably the more likely culprit here if you are looking to power down. Double Stroke is crushingly strong even with more benign spells (Stone Rain? Hymn to Tourach? Regrowth?).
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I'm failing to understand how you can commonly win on turn 2 and 3.
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Turn 1 mystic tutor or pass,
Turn two time walk double stroked
My three eternal witness
My four time walk double stroked
My five, venser, or crystal shard
Or my 6 grew warden of murasa
I went second both times I won on my opponents turn two.
Alternatively other starts this deck had had
Turn one: lotus jtms, brainstorm him
Turn two time walk,+2 jtms
Turn three e witness+2 jtms
Turn four time walk +2 jtms
5: +2 jtms
6:+2 jtms
Their turn 2: some two drop and pass
My 7: ult jtms
I play power and I like power and explosive starts, but only one color can really fight instants... Turn 1 tinker, path to exile
Or an edict, song of dryads, mooninate.
Turn one planeswalker off lotus: mox hexmage. And those lead to cool stories of beating a great opening,
Hell, I lost a game after getting grave Titan out turn one last draft.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
I think the real culprit are the conspiracies. Time Walk is obviously a very powerful card but scales with the environment around it.
You could put it in a pauper cube and while it would be very strong its value would be determined by what you did that turn.
In otherwords, if you are going to cut anything cut double stroke.
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But if you're going to include cards like Time Walk and Double Stroke in the cube, broken stuff is supposed to happen. If you don't enjoy broken crap happening, you probably shouldn't be playing either card.
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