I like this card quite a bit. Works very well with black's recursive creature suite. It plays perfectly into that color's wheelhouse (and it's another zombie). It functions as sort of a mini-pack rat that comes online earlier, has more utility (due to the draw option) but a lower ceiling.
If you are pushing vanilla 2 power 1 drop aggro in black, you might not like it though. It does a lot more in a synergistic deck but it's a tad slower than a generic 2 power beater. So if "as-low-to-the-ground-as-you-can-go" is what black is in your meta, he's probably a pass.
I ran him in my low power list for a bit. I had hoped he'd be a fair replacement for Pack Rat as a black token maker and reanimation support, but he was just a little too fair. It's a neat card, for sure, but needing to tap him to create the token and being a very vulnerable 1/1 made him mostly just disappointing. I've thought about adding him back in more than once because I really do like the card on paper, but he just didn't perform the way I wanted.
Yup, summed up perfectly. If you're running Cryptbreaker as an aggro 1-drop, you'll be disappointed.
If you're running it as an early discard outlet with occasional card advantage, it's very good for a one-drop, especially in slower cubes and those running Zombie Tribal archetypes. My main cube is both of those things, and Cryptbreaker is not falling out of it quickly.
It's not an aggro card, but it is an early discard outlet for reanimation decks and works fine in some midrange decks. I am ok with running a single black 1-drop that is not meant for aggro decks. Just like I run Goblin Welder in red.
I do wish the t were missing from the activation cost. Then he would truly be a fair Pack Rat. As is, he is not great, but an acceptable role player.
Based on my experiences with this card in Standard I may have initially misevaluated the flexibility of the Phyrexian Arena mode of this card. Just threw it in my Cube for a spin. I would be interested to hear if Cryptbreaker has spent extended time in any Cubes and how it has performed.
I have had him in since the start and have always found him to be a flexible one drop that goes into Reanimator and Tokens or even just as a value midrange guy. He cant be left alone either. I don't support a very aggressive Black deck nor do I have a Zombies theme, even still, I love this card.
I've enjoyed him as well. I don't think he would make the smallest lists, but if you're trying to push black aggro/midrange ('pushing black midrange' lol) he's pretty good. Both modes have been relevant, feels good to toss both the Gravecrawlers of the world and top decked lands.
Also, sometimes non-rakdos black aggro lists stall out and get into positions where they don't have reach, they can't get through, and the opponent starts stabilizing. Crypt Breaker offers a good set of tools to fight there, by either going wide with the zombies or drawing enough cards to do the same or find that removal.
I've been running it for a couple months now (with a zombie themed black section), and results are inconclusive.
A couple play group members swear by it, so I've kept it around, but I haven't had much personal experience with it.
I do like that it has seen play in both black agro (non-all in agro) and reanimator (when light on discard outlets).
My list is better suited for the card than most tho...
My list is better suited for the card than most tho...
FWIW, I don't know if that is true honestly. I get that you have multiples (crawler for example), so in theory the zombie synergy is higher. But you are running fully powered. Which means it's heavily combo. Cyrptbreaker is a midrange value card more than anything else, so if it's holding it's own in this sort of meta, to me that indicates it's exceeding expectations. I love this card and it's on the outside looking it in my combo list. I don't think most midrange is good enough. I'd like to be wrong about cryptbreaker though and it's on a short list of things to bring in after I get some iterative testing done (whenever I actually find time to do it).
you are running fully powered. Which means it's heavily combo.
This is a misconception that I pray dies off soon. Being powered and supporting combo are two separate design decisions. It's actually the subject of my next major article, if I can ever find the time to write it.
I think it's mostly semantics. Combo is probably not the right word to use. We can call it degeneracy if that makes it less confusing. Powered cubes revolve around unfair magic. I'm calling it combo because mechanically it's not much different. Reanimation is combo - you cheat in something that you shouldn't be able to have at an early stage of the game. Black Lotus does the same thing. A cube with those cards will revolve around that type of gameplay. It's not a bad thing, it simply changes the value and playability of certain types of cards. Cryptbreaker IMO is a really good example of a card the excels in more fair metas. It's ability is great for getting value out of cards you don't need and later in the game it's a CA engine. Cards like this are great in midrange cubes and often not so great in combo/degenerate cubes.
I think it's mostly semantics. Combo is probably not the right word to use. We can call it degeneracy if that makes it less confusing. Powered cubes revolve around unfair magic. I'm calling it combo because mechanically it's not much different. Reanimation is combo - you cheat in something that you shouldn't be able to have at an early stage of the game. Black Lotus does the same thing. A cube with those cards will revolve around that type of gameplay. It's not a bad thing, it simply changes the value and playability of certain types of cards. Cryptbreaker IMO is a really good example of a card the excels in more fair metas. It's ability is great for getting value out of cards you don't need and later in the game it's a CA engine. Cards like this are great in midrange cubes and often not so great in combo/degenerate cubes.
I agree with what you are saying. When you are facing a black lotused out inferno titan on turn 3, a couple extra cards might not matter. Powered cubes are more explosive which affect the value of cards that take time to generate value and don't have an immediate battlefield prescence. Also the larger the cube size, the more diluted the card pool is, so broken lines of play like channel -> ulamog, natural order -> craterhoof, tinker -> blightsteel, entomb griselbrand -> reanimate become more rare.
Cryptbreaker does better in larger unpowered cubes (because on average they are slower), but a lot of extra zombies lying around help too
A friend who's game I respect to me came up and said "crypt breaker was insane for me today". Was in a UB deck, with a decent amount of counter magic and a discard spell or two. Didn't really think of it before, but making a zombie EOT if the oppenent doesn't do anything threatening OR counter a threatening spell is a strong line of play.
FWIW even though I run some extra kiki pieces and the fastbond combo, "fair" decks with power are the most prevalent and dominant archetypes in my cube... Don't think you were insinuating that, but my cube is far from a combo cube.
I don't think this guy will be cubable until 30%+ of the black cube section creates zombies.
Discarding high-powered cube cards for an ashcoat bear isn't the deal it is in retail limited, and the draw ability isn't nearly as reliable as it is in constructed. He needs a specially zombie/graveyard-oriented environment if he's going to thrive.
You bring up a good point about cube size though, which also extends to how a cube is drafted and by how many people. If you see substantially less than 100% of the cube in a draft, the power of decks will go down. But it's not even across all cards and archetypes. Linear strategies and those with little redundancy suffer more. That again increases the power of generic value cards, midrange strategies, and archetypes with a ton of redundancy.
This was something I have always struggled with balancing because my group was always inconsistent (how many I'd have) and we tended to experiment a lot with draft formats for variety. I also didn't really understand this dynamic completely until pretty recently so didn't attribute enough of card evaluation to the impact all this has. Different cube sizes and draft formats adds a lot of variability to how a cube plays, making it that much harder to accurately gauge how good cards like Cryptbreaker will be.
For those on the fence about Cryptbreaker, my feeling is it will be too slow and low value in a cube that revolves around tier 1 archetypes where tight deck lists come together often. I have not tested it in that meta so don't know this for certain though.
Discarding high-powered cube cards for an ashcoat bear isn't the deal it is in retail limited, and the draw ability isn't nearly as reliable as it is in constructed. He needs a specially zombie/graveyard-oriented environment if he's going to thrive.
I would argue if you are discarding high powered cards that you don't plan to reanimate (flashback or recur another way like squee) then you are doing it wrong.
Discarding high-powered cube cards for an ashcoat bear isn't the deal it is in retail limited, and the draw ability isn't nearly as reliable as it is in constructed. He needs a specially zombie/graveyard-oriented environment if he's going to thrive.
I would argue if you are discarding high powered cards that you don't plan to reanimate (flashback or recur another way like squee) then you are doing it wrong.
Agreed, the only reason I'd be tossing a LotV or Jitte would be if that's the play that literally wins me the game the next turn; otherwise, you're pitching lands, things that are irrelevant in the matchup, or recursive black creatures of which there are a decent amount of now.
Sure, but if using strong cube cards alongside Cryptbreaker is "doing it wrong" (outside very specific circumstances like clunky versions of reanimator or tribal zombies), why play it over other 1- and 2-drops?
Cryptbreaker really helps make clunky hands better. It also randomly helps when the game stalls since that is when the card draw tends to be active. If you have a sweet draw where each turn you are making a really optimal play, then cryptbreaker can look bad. Sure. But most games don't go that way. Even ones where you start off good and then 3 lands off the top of your library and you start falling behind on the board. Cryptbreaker puts those lands to use. It works in the opposite situations too. You have two land, a one and two drop. Three cards to find your third land. Doesn't happen. Well, toss stuff and start making zombies, draw an extra card when you get two tokens to try and catch up on lands (while still keeping up somewhat on board development).
Best analogy I can give... Cryptbreaker is like that decently attractive person that looks pretty plain next to a glamour magazine. But since life isn't what you see in glamour magazines, in actuality Cryptbreaker is actually well above average and very likely worth your time and appreciation.
Sure, but if using strong cube cards alongside Cryptbreaker is "doing it wrong" (outside very specific circumstances like clunky versions of reanimator or tribal zombies), why play it over other 1- and 2-drops?
Not saying don't run good cards with cryptbreaker, just don't throw them out.
If you are pushing vanilla 2 power 1 drop aggro in black, you might not like it though. It does a lot more in a synergistic deck but it's a tad slower than a generic 2 power beater. So if "as-low-to-the-ground-as-you-can-go" is what black is in your meta, he's probably a pass.
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If you're running it as an early discard outlet with occasional card advantage, it's very good for a one-drop, especially in slower cubes and those running Zombie Tribal archetypes. My main cube is both of those things, and Cryptbreaker is not falling out of it quickly.
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I do wish the t were missing from the activation cost. Then he would truly be a fair Pack Rat. As is, he is not great, but an acceptable role player.
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Also, sometimes non-rakdos black aggro lists stall out and get into positions where they don't have reach, they can't get through, and the opponent starts stabilizing. Crypt Breaker offers a good set of tools to fight there, by either going wide with the zombies or drawing enough cards to do the same or find that removal.
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FWIW I think they play well together since Feeder is a zombie and can eat the tokens.
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Of course, it does turn dead cards into zombies, which is fantastic, and also is a 1 drop that works turn 1, and isn't a dead card if played later.
A couple play group members swear by it, so I've kept it around, but I haven't had much personal experience with it.
I do like that it has seen play in both black agro (non-all in agro) and reanimator (when light on discard outlets).
My list is better suited for the card than most tho...
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FWIW, I don't know if that is true honestly. I get that you have multiples (crawler for example), so in theory the zombie synergy is higher. But you are running fully powered. Which means it's heavily combo. Cyrptbreaker is a midrange value card more than anything else, so if it's holding it's own in this sort of meta, to me that indicates it's exceeding expectations. I love this card and it's on the outside looking it in my combo list. I don't think most midrange is good enough. I'd like to be wrong about cryptbreaker though and it's on a short list of things to bring in after I get some iterative testing done (whenever I actually find time to do it).
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
This is a misconception that I pray dies off soon. Being powered and supporting combo are two separate design decisions. It's actually the subject of my next major article, if I can ever find the time to write it.
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http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
I agree with what you are saying. When you are facing a black lotused out inferno titan on turn 3, a couple extra cards might not matter. Powered cubes are more explosive which affect the value of cards that take time to generate value and don't have an immediate battlefield prescence. Also the larger the cube size, the more diluted the card pool is, so broken lines of play like channel -> ulamog, natural order -> craterhoof, tinker -> blightsteel, entomb griselbrand -> reanimate become more rare.
Cryptbreaker does better in larger unpowered cubes (because on average they are slower), but a lot of extra zombies lying around help too
A friend who's game I respect to me came up and said "crypt breaker was insane for me today". Was in a UB deck, with a decent amount of counter magic and a discard spell or two. Didn't really think of it before, but making a zombie EOT if the oppenent doesn't do anything threatening OR counter a threatening spell is a strong line of play.
FWIW even though I run some extra kiki pieces and the fastbond combo, "fair" decks with power are the most prevalent and dominant archetypes in my cube... Don't think you were insinuating that, but my cube is far from a combo cube.
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Discarding high-powered cube cards for an ashcoat bear isn't the deal it is in retail limited, and the draw ability isn't nearly as reliable as it is in constructed. He needs a specially zombie/graveyard-oriented environment if he's going to thrive.
You bring up a good point about cube size though, which also extends to how a cube is drafted and by how many people. If you see substantially less than 100% of the cube in a draft, the power of decks will go down. But it's not even across all cards and archetypes. Linear strategies and those with little redundancy suffer more. That again increases the power of generic value cards, midrange strategies, and archetypes with a ton of redundancy.
This was something I have always struggled with balancing because my group was always inconsistent (how many I'd have) and we tended to experiment a lot with draft formats for variety. I also didn't really understand this dynamic completely until pretty recently so didn't attribute enough of card evaluation to the impact all this has. Different cube sizes and draft formats adds a lot of variability to how a cube plays, making it that much harder to accurately gauge how good cards like Cryptbreaker will be.
For those on the fence about Cryptbreaker, my feeling is it will be too slow and low value in a cube that revolves around tier 1 archetypes where tight deck lists come together often. I have not tested it in that meta so don't know this for certain though.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
I would argue if you are discarding high powered cards that you don't plan to reanimate (flashback or recur another way like squee) then you are doing it wrong.
Agreed, the only reason I'd be tossing a LotV or Jitte would be if that's the play that literally wins me the game the next turn; otherwise, you're pitching lands, things that are irrelevant in the matchup, or recursive black creatures of which there are a decent amount of now.
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Best analogy I can give... Cryptbreaker is like that decently attractive person that looks pretty plain next to a glamour magazine. But since life isn't what you see in glamour magazines, in actuality Cryptbreaker is actually well above average and very likely worth your time and appreciation.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
Not saying don't run good cards with cryptbreaker, just don't throw them out.
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