A creature-heavy control deck would be happy to have this against aggro beaters and mana dorks. She's not the Liliana that I wanted (at all) but 3cc 'Walkers are hard to evaluate without seeing them in action. The {+1} ability does kill/cripple a ton of creatures in this format though, and the {-2} ability feeds the 'yard and provides some CA. Decent, but not busted.
Not what I was expecting. This Liliana may be pretty disappointing, but I think it still might be good enough on its own merit. The -2/-1 lasting until your next turn and being a +1 ability is probably better than it looks. The -2 is also useful later in the game when you have more selection in your graveyard.
I'll probably test it just because its casting cost is pretty cheap and black is that desperate for planeswalkers.
Not what I was expecting. This Liliana may be pretty disappointing, but I think it still might be good enough on its own merit. The -2/-1 lasting until your next turn and being a +1 ability is probably better than it looks. The -2 is also useful later in the game when you have more selection in your graveyard.
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Analysis:
I'm a bit disappointed, but will test. Think she is a strong card and a solid middle tier walker. The +1 is quite good (lot of x/1's and 2/x's in this format), and a 3 mana card that can generate CA over the long game is nothing to scoff at. She also fuels delve/flashback/delirium/re-animator etc.
She doesn't work in control without a bunch of creatures and she's too slow in agro. This means she'll see play in creature midrange and recurring nightmare type strategies only. This is fairly narrow for a walker... Currently, I feel plenty saturated with non-creature cards that are great in creature heavy decks, hence the dissapointment :/
One thing I like about this card: it can go toe to toe with Elspeth, Knight Errant on an empty board. Black's creatures aren't the biggest of the bunch, I think having Weakness on a +1 planeswalker ability will prove better than it looks.
Also, I just watched the Access Magic Youtube video where this was spoiled, Oath of Liliana is confirmed, hopefully that won't be as disappointing.
She does a pretty good job at protecting herself with her + ability considering she goes to 4 loyalty. It outright kills close to 40% of the creatures in my cube and stuffs over a quarter of the creatures left. Good - ability with nice interactions (Muldrifter, Shriekmaw, Glen Elandra, reuse ETB effects, etc) and useful in a number of black decks. It's card advantage and can even be used in aggro decks (Skullclamp, Braids/Stax, Bloodghast, Keldon Marauders, and even Living Death to an extent).
Considering how well 3 mana walkers have performed I'll be including her.
Her +1 is better than Jace, Telepath Unbound's +1, and that's been solid enough on a walker that has to use that ability to protect itself later in the game when the opponent is likely to have bigger creatures. I think this is definitely worth testing, but black 3-drops are so stacked finding a cut won't be easy.
Having 3 Gideons and 3 Jaces has been working out fine so far, so I think I'm fine with having 3 Lilianas in my cube, although it does seem a bit awkward having all 3 of them at the same CMC.
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I don't think this is what any of us expected, but after a bit of reflection, I think this is a very decent three mana PW. Repeatable, free removal on a three mana permanent is pretty crazy, and has been pointed out, -2/-1 kills a ton of creatures in cube and hits most others pretty darn hard. For a [+1], that does seem very decent. The [-2] is steep for a Raise Dead effect, but it fills the graveyard a bit too, and offers good recursion for utility creatures if needed. I also suspect that her ultimate might be relevant, since I can see [+1]ing all the way to it, and it's a pretty good one. It's really not for aggro, but it will see play in midrange and control and do good jobs there. I think it will turn out better than it first appears.
I wonder how many people besides myself were really hoping for a 4cmc lily that made 2/2 zombie tokens for +1 or +0 loyalty.
I was also, but it honestly seemed unlikely with Gideon, Ally of Zendikar doing that.
I'm warming up on this lili, I wish black had a good evoke creature or two to push it. There's Fleshbag Marauder and the orc but those are usually on the outside looking in.
The name of this card is a nice subtle troll for the Cube community, haha... That being said, I think she's alright for my 720, but I can see a lot of people here needing to pass on her.
The +1 is pretty weak removal especially once Thalia's lieutenant gets going. The -2 is good in say a b/g delerium build and the -7 seems only good in a mono black or a b/u zombies build. She's definitely useable but no veil. There's very specific things she has to be used with in order for those abilities to stand out. She's a decent casual walker at best. She won't see much action in any competitive format.
I think you misread her ultimate, it's pretty good in non zombie decks, that being said I doubt she will ever ultimate in cube much.
I also thought her +1 sucked too upon first inspection but realistically the first +1 should be a doomblade, and the rest last until your next turn so protect both you and your planeswalkers very well. Making a pain seer(first 2/2 I thought of even though I don't run it) a 0/1 is pretty great.
I've decided to test this because Liliana may be a more durable planeswalker than any other 3 drop pw.
3 cost planeswalkers seem like the most underestimated cmc+card type combination around here. This one has a + that protects itself and provides CA, a decent minus, and strong ultimate that is reached reasonably quickly.
The most common play pattern is probably to just spam +es until she dies or you can ultimate, unless you have a particularly good creature already in your grave. I'd expect her to be the second strongest monoB walker, and to stick around for us at 525 for quite a while.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
It doesn't change it too much, but I wouldn't consider it completely irrelevant either. It's nice to know that there's a buildup worth achieving, and it makes her body more valuable to protect. I mean, she does immediately tick to 4 loyalty, and she protects herself too. I think it certainly makes a difference. Between her {+1} ability and just 1-2 removal spells for 3+ power threats, she might just get there...
More importantly, the opponent has to care more about her loyalty total, making her more likely to soak damage for you that the opponent might otherwise ignore. That's a decent positive attribute for a 3cc 'walker.
Seems pretty good. There are a decent amount of black strategies that play out of the graveyard, and even if the + ability doesn't kill the target it'll slow down quite a bit. Plus, costing 3 mana with abilities that do generally good things is where you want to be. I'm looking forward to testing it and I think it'll be better in practice than theory.
In addition to the defensive/removal value that the {+1} brings, it also has some offensive value too. Shrinking an opponent's 3/3 blocker to a 1/2 so I can swing in with my team of 2/2s is certainly not irrelevant. Plus, until the opponent has a 4+ power threat out, her loyalty exchange is neutral at worst if they attack her back. So she can at least temporarily neutralize a lone 3/3 on the opponent's side of the board until you can resolve a blocker.
I'm a bit split on this one. I think it will be good enough though.
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I'll probably test it just because its casting cost is pretty cheap and black is that desperate for planeswalkers.
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With all the hashtags, I immediately thought of you when I saw the spoiled card haha.
Analysis:
I'm a bit disappointed, but will test. Think she is a strong card and a solid middle tier walker. The +1 is quite good (lot of x/1's and 2/x's in this format), and a 3 mana card that can generate CA over the long game is nothing to scoff at. She also fuels delve/flashback/delirium/re-animator etc.
She doesn't work in control without a bunch of creatures and she's too slow in agro. This means she'll see play in creature midrange and recurring nightmare type strategies only. This is fairly narrow for a walker... Currently, I feel plenty saturated with non-creature cards that are great in creature heavy decks, hence the dissapointment :/
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Also, I just watched the Access Magic Youtube video where this was spoiled, Oath of Liliana is confirmed, hopefully that won't be as disappointing.
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Considering how well 3 mana walkers have performed I'll be including her.
Having 3 Gideons and 3 Jaces has been working out fine so far, so I think I'm fine with having 3 Lilianas in my cube, although it does seem a bit awkward having all 3 of them at the same CMC.
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I was also, but it honestly seemed unlikely with Gideon, Ally of Zendikar doing that.
I'm warming up on this lili, I wish black had a good evoke creature or two to push it. There's Fleshbag Marauder and the orc but those are usually on the outside looking in.
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I don't think she's amazing, but if there's a format out there that can breathe some life into her {+1}, cube is probably it.
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I think this is one of those cards that I'll test if I get my hands on one, but I won't be investing much time or money to acquire one.
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I think you misread her ultimate, it's pretty good in non zombie decks, that being said I doubt she will ever ultimate in cube much.
I also thought her +1 sucked too upon first inspection but realistically the first +1 should be a doomblade, and the rest last until your next turn so protect both you and your planeswalkers very well. Making a pain seer(first 2/2 I thought of even though I don't run it) a 0/1 is pretty great.
I've decided to test this because Liliana may be a more durable planeswalker than any other 3 drop pw.
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Oh wow. I misread it too. It's actually a pretty good ultimate even without any other Zombies out!
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The most common play pattern is probably to just spam +es until she dies or you can ultimate, unless you have a particularly good creature already in your grave. I'd expect her to be the second strongest monoB walker, and to stick around for us at 525 for quite a while.
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More importantly, the opponent has to care more about her loyalty total, making her more likely to soak damage for you that the opponent might otherwise ignore. That's a decent positive attribute for a 3cc 'walker.
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Fuels graveyard for Recurring Nightmare shenanigans. In fact, her -2 is basically the second coming of Recurring Nightmare (except not really, lol).
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