Would it have been so broken to just give you the mindslaver effect without giving the opponent and extra turn after? I guess it's pretty backbreaking anyway, but if you successfully case a 9-10 drop you SHOULD win the game.
Yeah, you should, but it doesn't have to be easy for you or unfair to your opponent.
This one is costed right and not too back-breaking. I like that it provides more reasons to play sorcery-speed removal, since there's so little reason to play it already. Other than that it's not too flashy, just like a bigger Simic Sky Swallower.
I've been looking for another super fatty to run and Emrakul should fit the bill quite nicely. I'm already running Ulamog 2.0 / Kozilek 1.0, so it'll be nice to complete the pantheon at least for flavor reasons. I also like that I'm running one Eldrazi Titan from each block: Kozilek from the original Zendikar block, Ulamog from BFZ block, and Ulamog from Shadows over Innistrad block. I like their variety of effects and the fact that they're not all the same creature (like having multiple Jaces in the cube).
I think some people here over-value versatility in their cheaty targets and undervalue upside.
I think versatility should never be under-valued, especially with cheaty targets.
Example: Say P1P1 my top 5 picks are all 5 Titans. I value Primeval Titan higher than any other titans because it's the only one I can cheat into play via Natural Order and can also be tutored up with Green Sun's Zenith, not to mention that it's green so it's in the natural ramp color. There's a lot of reasons why I think Primeval Titan is the best titan, but that's a discussion for another day.
In my experience, my Sneak Attack / Show and Tell decks tend to have a reanimator component to them. I dunno about you guys, but I don't exactly stuff my deck to the brim with super fatties, so the anti-reanimation clause can be a huge brick wall when you're forced to go the reanimation route but your only fattie in the first 10 or so cards can't be reanimated.
Super Fatties can be slotted to the following common archetypes:
Ramp
Reanimator
Recurring Nightmare (I consider this its own archetype outside of traditional reanimator)
Cheaty Face (Sneak Attack / Show and Tell / Eureka / Oath of Druids / Through the Breach)
Natural Order
I like to try and get my fatties able to fit into as many as these archetypes as possible.
Wow, I think primevil is leagues below Inferno titan and Grave titan in P1P1 quality but yeah that is another discussion
You neglected to mention channel, which is the biggest upside for playing eldrazi.
Sneak attack decks can be based around reanimator, but can also be based around eureka/channel/show and tell. Eldrazi 1.0 are simultaneously the best channel targets AND the best sneak attack/through the breach targets available for cube by a large margin.
The key is that If i'm playing multiple eldrazi 2.0 in my sneak/reanimator deck, I'm running a sub-par reanimator deck. They are clear tier 2 maybe tier 3 targets and a very low priority for that deck. (certainly playable).
There's a side issue of running TOO FEW fatties and thus UNDER supporting non-reanimator cheat decks (under supporting , meaning they are not strong draft strategies to have a high avg win %). If the QUANTITY of fatties are low, then versatility becomes more important.
I think quite a few lists I've looked at around these forums under support non-reanimator cheat decks
For those who run Kozi 2.0, is the <> mana ever an issue for casting him?
Nope, not here. I've seen Kozi 2.0 hardcast frequently - it actually gets resolved a lot more than I suspect any of the original Eldrazi Titans would (especially original Emrakul).
(Disclaimer: I'm packing 30 Wastes in my basic land pile, and have a variety of ways of fetching them in my cube)
I think people are massively underrating the mindslaver ability and massively overrating the extra turn they get. If you're casting this card, the mindslaver is going to work out in your favor, and the more that scales i.e. the better that mindslaver is, the absolute worse the next turn is for them as they need that much more to come back from the disaster. And then if they don't make it through their turn with their emrakul answer in tact i.e. sorcery speed answer that the mind-slaver can't discard or use on another creature, then they probably have in most scenarios not involving extra draws that turn like a 5-15% chance of drawing an answer. (Very loose math/odds of 1-3 answers out of a 20-card deck left.)
Sure, there will be boards you can't dismantle, but that doesn't mean everything is going to go swimmingly for your opponent--it is pretty much ALWAYS bad in cube to get mind-slaved when considering the quality of cards your opponent may have.
The card pretty much says "Your opponent gets an extra turn. **** his ***** up during the first turn."
--------------------
Also, the flavor of this card in comparison to the full-art is perfect. Emrakul takes over some percentage of the Innistrad population, he ****s up their homeland, and then they try to recover from it. I believe they nailed the abilities in that sense.
I think the art is great. The card design is a mixed bag.
I wish Emrakul still costed 15 (but with the potential cost reduction) AND kept the original P/T.
Emrakul is supposed to be the biggest bad ass of them all, now it's on par with a flipped Elbrus, the binding blade - That just feels wrong to me.
It's pretty much an auto include for our MP cube. Half our players will love having all three Eldrazi 2.0, the other half will hate losing Annihilator Eldrazi. Can't make everyone happy.
I think I will propose a time share for the eldrazi as a package and rotate them as a group of three when we want to add a different dynamic to the cube.
Emrakul is supposed to be the biggest bad ass of them all, now it's on par with a flipped Elbrus, the binding blade - That just feels wrong to me.
Marit Lage is already a 20/20, and worldspine wurm is a 15/15. Emrakul already wasn't the biggest creature in the game. A 13/13 that controls your mind is plenty big enough to convey how powerful she is.
From what I understand, there are 5 non-artifact colorless cards, including Emrakul. I saw a thread somewhere in which someone figured that number out looking at the spoiler.
From what I understand, there are 5 non-artifact colorless cards, including Emrakul. I saw a thread somewhere in which someone figured that number out looking at the spoiler.
At least 6 including emmy, as emmy is number 6. The next number we know is 51 for that eldrazi wish.
From what I understand, there are 5 non-artifact colorless cards, including Emrakul. I saw a thread somewhere in which someone figured that number out looking at the spoiler.
That sounds wrong. Emrakul's collector number is 006/205, so there's at the very least 6 such cards including her, but more likely about 15 of them. For reference in ROE Emrakul was #004 out of 13 colorless eldrazi cards.
I think this card has a reasonable power level, but I just don't want to cut an existing card for it. I think Ulamog 2.0 is better and I only have room for one big colorless creature. I want reanimator/sneak attack/oath of druids to have targets but fatties too narrow. If I were to add in another colorless bomb, it would be this card or Kozilek 1.0. Might be different in a powered cube running Show and Tell (I don't run for color pie reasons) and Channel (I don't run because broken). If I wanted the broken, powerful stuff, which is totally fun sometimes, I'm not sure this Emrakul is worth it. I mean, if I'm cheating it in, I think Emrakul 1.0 is probably better?
Usman just mentioned on Twitter that he saw somebody use Emrakul to make the opposing player kill himself with Toxic Deluge. My first reaction was "huh, I'm surprised I haven't thought of that in EDH." My second thought was that I should make a comprehensive list of possible lines of plays to do during the Mindslaver turn.
- Kill them with Toxic Deluge
- Spellskite also works as a good "life sink" as long as you have a spell to target (the spell itself does not need to have targets)
- Sac their entire board to Greater Gargadon and run it straight into your Emrakul
- Burn them for 8 with Sylvan Library
- Use your opponent's removal on their own permanents
- Point their burn at their face / creatures
- Make unfavorable blocks during combat
- Use painlands to burn themselves
- Waste tutors / fetchlands
- Waste planeswalker loyalty counters
- Make unfavorable loot / scry effects
- Hell, discard their whole hand to Wild Mongrel and then serve him to Emrakul
- Abuse sac outlets (much easier to do in EDH)
- Use their auras Rancor on your own creatures
- Cast a clone effect and choose not to copy anything, thus killing the clone
- De-level Warden of the First Tree / Figure of Destiny
- Tap down their Grim / Basalt Monoliths
- Shuffle around their equipment
- Bounce Batterskull to their hand
- Wipe their board with their own Mirror Entity
- Go Hawaii 5-0 with Fact or Fiction
- Cast an X spell for 0
Ooo, that's a good one. Keep'm coming and I'll put'm on the list.
One of my friends in my EDH playgroup plays Crovax, Ascendant Hero as one of his commanders, so Mindslaver is an auto-kill vs him if he has an even life total.
Yeah, you should, but it doesn't have to be easy for you or unfair to your opponent.
This one is costed right and not too back-breaking. I like that it provides more reasons to play sorcery-speed removal, since there's so little reason to play it already. Other than that it's not too flashy, just like a bigger Simic Sky Swallower.
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Wow, I think primevil is leagues below Inferno titan and Grave titan in P1P1 quality but yeah that is another discussion
You neglected to mention channel, which is the biggest upside for playing eldrazi.
Sneak attack decks can be based around reanimator, but can also be based around eureka/channel/show and tell. Eldrazi 1.0 are simultaneously the best channel targets AND the best sneak attack/through the breach targets available for cube by a large margin.
The key is that If i'm playing multiple eldrazi 2.0 in my sneak/reanimator deck, I'm running a sub-par reanimator deck. They are clear tier 2 maybe tier 3 targets and a very low priority for that deck. (certainly playable).
There's a side issue of running TOO FEW fatties and thus UNDER supporting non-reanimator cheat decks (under supporting , meaning they are not strong draft strategies to have a high avg win %). If the QUANTITY of fatties are low, then versatility becomes more important.
I think quite a few lists I've looked at around these forums under support non-reanimator cheat decks
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Nope, not here. I've seen Kozi 2.0 hardcast frequently - it actually gets resolved a lot more than I suspect any of the original Eldrazi Titans would (especially original Emrakul).
(Disclaimer: I'm packing 30 Wastes in my basic land pile, and have a variety of ways of fetching them in my cube)
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Sure, there will be boards you can't dismantle, but that doesn't mean everything is going to go swimmingly for your opponent--it is pretty much ALWAYS bad in cube to get mind-slaved when considering the quality of cards your opponent may have.
The card pretty much says "Your opponent gets an extra turn. **** his ***** up during the first turn."
--------------------
Also, the flavor of this card in comparison to the full-art is perfect. Emrakul takes over some percentage of the Innistrad population, he ****s up their homeland, and then they try to recover from it. I believe they nailed the abilities in that sense.
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Completely agree. I think this cast trigger will prove to be insanely powerful in practice.
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Completely agree. I think this cast trigger will prove to be insanely powerful in practice.
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I wish Emrakul still costed 15 (but with the potential cost reduction) AND kept the original P/T.
Emrakul is supposed to be the biggest bad ass of them all, now it's on par with a flipped Elbrus, the binding blade - That just feels wrong to me.
It's pretty much an auto include for our MP cube. Half our players will love having all three Eldrazi 2.0, the other half will hate losing Annihilator Eldrazi. Can't make everyone happy.
I think I will propose a time share for the eldrazi as a package and rotate them as a group of three when we want to add a different dynamic to the cube.
Marit Lage is already a 20/20, and worldspine wurm is a 15/15. Emrakul already wasn't the biggest creature in the game. A 13/13 that controls your mind is plenty big enough to convey how powerful she is.
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At least 6 including emmy, as emmy is number 6. The next number we know is 51 for that eldrazi wish.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
That sounds wrong. Emrakul's collector number is 006/205, so there's at the very least 6 such cards including her, but more likely about 15 of them. For reference in ROE Emrakul was #004 out of 13 colorless eldrazi cards.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
That just means the front is colored. There aren't going to be 130 colorless cards lol.
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- Kill them with Toxic Deluge
- Spellskite also works as a good "life sink" as long as you have a spell to target (the spell itself does not need to have targets)
- Sac their entire board to Greater Gargadon and run it straight into your Emrakul
- Burn them for 8 with Sylvan Library
- Use your opponent's removal on their own permanents
- Point their burn at their face / creatures
- Make unfavorable blocks during combat
- Use painlands to burn themselves
- Waste tutors / fetchlands
- Waste planeswalker loyalty counters
- Make unfavorable loot / scry effects
- Hell, discard their whole hand to Wild Mongrel and then serve him to Emrakul
- Abuse sac outlets (much easier to do in EDH)
- Use their
aurasRancor on your own creatures- Cast a clone effect and choose not to copy anything, thus killing the clone
- De-level Warden of the First Tree / Figure of Destiny
- Tap down their Grim / Basalt Monoliths
- Shuffle around their equipment
- Bounce Batterskull to their hand
- Wipe their board with their own Mirror Entity
- Go Hawaii 5-0 with Fact or Fiction
- Cast an X spell for 0
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One of my friends in my EDH playgroup plays Crovax, Ascendant Hero as one of his commanders, so Mindslaver is an auto-kill vs him if he has an even life total.
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