I've never considered this for cube. Moreso because artifact-matters cards are nearly impossible to fit into 360 and this needs a combo or cost reduction, etc. to get really broken and worth it. But also after New Emrakul, there's really no way.
I have a decently large collection of prop hats for videos, my most recent purchase is a chef hat with a weird do-rag attachment and it's covered with frogs doing yoga and transparent words across that say things like "Take it easy" and "do your best."
Moreso because artifact-matters cards are nearly impossible to fit into 360
I would play Daretti, Tinker and a few others at 360, no problems. No chance for Mindslaver though.
You could definitely add Goblin Welder to a 360 too when you have that other support, since Welder/Daretti are so much better when redundancy is that much easier to guarantee.
I play Daretti, Welder, Tinker, and even Metalworker at 375 because it's a sweet deck when it comes together and I like supporting that.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I also prefer the OG version. I prefer the art, it looks more mystical and mirrodin-ish to me, also I like the light grey artifacts from the first two mirrordin blocks, so I always prefer them to newer versions.
True that. I love the old etchings in the background, it looks so crazy and omnipotent.
Also thanks for the comments on artifact-matters in 360! I'm basically completely out of slots b/c im doing whatever I can to make sure aggro has a chance with more burn and effective little guys, but if I had even 3 more slots... Oh boy.
Mindslaver effects are a bit like land destruction and discard... effective but not always fun for the victim. I never ran mindslaver (I don't think?) but I have been testing Emrakul, the Promsied End. And it's certainly fun to cast but I'm not sure my group is the right group for the effect.
I don't care for hats. I wore baseball caps when my head was shaved mostly to prevent sunburn while outside for too long. I also have a unhealthy attraction to that Indiana Jones / Fedora hat that Alan Grant wore in Jurassic Park. I had one and looked stupid wearing it. But I didn't care. I liked it. I don't know what happened to that hat, but I'd probably buy another one if I wandered into a store and saw one in a color I liked.
Sorry to cut the discussion on Mindslaver a bit short, but I have guests coming over soon. Enough picking on the MTGO Legacy Cube's changelog, this one's from Cube Tutor Average 720.
I have played against Goyf with Blue White control and my opponent was able to stabilise after a late upheaval after getting him back with eternal witness. It was like a 6/5 for 2cmc and I couldn't beat it. Solid.
I remember the guy next to me pulled one in MM2 draft, so I haven't gotten mine yet )-:
Tarmogoyf isn't able to be as consistent in cube as it is in constructed formats, but it's still pretty solid. It's not always a 3/4 on turn two, but it can definitely get buff quick and it's a great top deck. I don't pick it super high, but if I'm in green and see it, it's always a consideration.
I got my 'goyf not long after Future Sight released. I bought a playset from my buddy for forty bucks. I've since sold three of those, but one of them still sits in the cube.
Gorf is fine. I ran it for awhile. I pulled one in a Future Sight pack from a FNM with friends. Had no idea it would be worth $200 at the time. Ended up selling it a year or so ago. It was simply worth more in trade value to me.
I don't run Goyf and don't really want to. I'd trade one in a second if I pulled it.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I don't run Goyf and don't really want to. I'd trade one in a second if I pulled it.
This is how I feel. It's cool when it's big and dumb, but when it's not big and dumb you feel reallyyyyyy stupid for running it. We cut it a LONG time ago and have not looked back.
I have run Goyf since the inception of my cube about 4 years ago and have never looked back, but now that I think about it he definitely isn't essential or all that interesting even.
My Goyf (along with my ABU duals and select older impossible-to-find-without-taking-out-a-mortgage cards) is one of those fancy foil renders that you used to be able to get online for a few before Wizards brought down the hammer.
Tarmogoyf is inconsistent, but it's excellent often enough for me to keep it in, on top of the "wow" factor that people get from seeing it in the cube because of its stature in Constructed formats. However, because it's so much worse in cube than it is in Constructed I couldn't possibly recommend anyone ever buy one just for their cube considering how expensive it is. It's a fine card, better than Sylvan Advocate, but certainly not that much better. If you don't have one, you might as well proxy it or do without.
I played the booster box lottery for what's probably my last time with MM2 and pulled 'Goyf in the 4th to last pack, and wouldn't have come even close to getting my money's worth out of that box without it. My cube was still very much a work in progress at the time, and I was sorely tempted to just sell or trade it off to get other staples I was still missing. Another user from this forum talked me out of it, reminding me that I'd probably never have another chance for a Tarmogoyf unless I'd be willing to pay cash for it in the future. And he's right, I never would be.
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465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
I agree with most of that, but I'm not all that sure he's better than Sylvan Advocate. The Vigilance is a really good add-on, it seems easier in my limited time with Advocate to hit six lands in play than four card types in the graveyard (especially in green), and giving your manlands a boost is icing. Also, I could cut Goyf from my cube and pay for two sets' worth of staples. Sylvan, not so much. He's still a great beater but as others have said 'not essential' and pretty bland.
I had a foil FUT Goyf from a trade back in the day, which I sold to buy a MM one (and a ton of other stuff) since I liked the artwork better on that. I avoid dark foils.
I agree with most of that, but I'm not all that sure he's better than Sylvan Advocate. The Vigilance is a really good add-on, it seems easier in my limited time with Advocate to hit six lands in play than four card types in the graveyard (especially in green), and giving your manlands a boost is icing. Also, I could cut Goyf from my cube and pay for two sets' worth of staples. Sylvan, not so much. He's still a great beater but as others have said 'not essential' and pretty bland.
I had a foil FUT Goyf from a trade back in the day, which I sold to buy a MM one (and a ton of other stuff) since I liked the artwork better on that. I avoid dark foils.
I agree with this, it feels really gross to pay one to attack with a 4/4 mutavault or factory.
Tarmogoyf is a fine cube card, but a bit inconsistent and not overly amazing. I don't think about cutting it right now, but doing so in the future is not out of the question. And while Goyf is better in constructed, I think Sylvan Advocate is the better cube card.
At the end of the Future Sight prerelease, I tried to buy a Tarmogoyf from another player. I thought it would be decent in cube, so it was on my acquisition list. I offered 5 €. He declined. I offered 8 €. He asked for 10 €. I wasn't willing to pay that much money for that card and walked away. After that prerelease, I took a break from Magic until Lorwyn came out. The cruel part of this story is that I was willing to pay 8 € for a Goyf and could have gotten one for 3-4 € during the first few weaks after the tournament. But the next time I paid attention to the game and to card prices, Goyf had already gone through the roof. After it had rotated out of standard, I bought one for a bit below 40 € and felt bad about it. Considering that it now costs more than 100 €, I feel a bit less bad about it though.
I really like both the art and the flavor text on the MM versions. Therefore, I would like to swap my old Goyf for one of those.
My first pre-release was Future Sight and yap - I opened a Foil Goyf.
I was a kid, and a very naive one. At a Lorwyn draft, somebody saw that I had the Goyf and he offered an unfavorable trade for me... The days when TCGplayer and sites like that weren't popular.
Of course, it was a rip-off by thousands of dollars, and to this day, that person makes fun of me because of that trade... He is a sad person, but it is what it is.
I hope that one day I could forgive him and acquire the money for a foil one just like I had back in 2006, but now, I don't have even nonfoil Tarmogoyf in my cube, and I don't plan to anytime soon.
The card is good, but not that broken in our environment, and I don't feel the need to proxy one.
Tarmogoyf is a great card. Despite it not being as consistent as it is in constructed, a 3/4-5/6 beater for 1G is plain good. If you're playing a deck that wants an efficiently costed beater, it's still the gold standard. It gets a bad rap in the cube, but it's still a stellar Magic card, and performs admirably for us. I think cutting it is a mistake, plain and simple.
Tarmogoyf is a great card. Despite it not being as consistent as it is in constructed, a 3/4-5/6 beater for 1G is plain good. If you're playing a deck that wants an efficiently costed beater, it's still the gold standard. It gets a bad rap in the cube, but it's still a stellar Magic card, and performs admirably for us. I think cutting it is a mistake, plain and simple.
Do you think it's a powered cube vs unpowered cube difference that accounts for this? I ran Gorf in early versions of my cube and my experience echoes others (that is was inconsistent and very cuttable).
This is actually really interesting to me because I believe small differences in cube lists, player tendencies, etc. can account for a great deal of variance in card performance. Not all cards, but some.
The fact that Gorf gets bigger based on ALL graveyards I suspect is the key to why this works better in some cubes versus others. It's not about YOUR deck getting multiple card types in the yard as much as it is the collective sum of you and your opponent. Point being, in the exact same deck list Gorf can be underwhelming or it can be huge largely based on what deck you face off against.
I don't know what effect power cards would have on the value of Tarmogoyf as a card. The cards normally seen in powered lists that aren't seen in unpowered lists don't really hit the graveyard any earlier to fuel Tarmogoyf.
I was thinking more along the lines of fast mana - having the ability to cast more things early in the game (inevitably means more stuff goes to the yard), to where Gorf is more reliably large earlier in the game. From an unpowered cube perspective, the first several turns you typically have way more you could cast in your hand than you have mana to spend. I think this is less of a thing with fast mana (certainly was when I ran moxen).
I have a decently large collection of prop hats for videos, my most recent purchase is a chef hat with a weird do-rag attachment and it's covered with frogs doing yoga and transparent words across that say things like "Take it easy" and "do your best."
This is still the best place for high-power-level cube chat & debate.
Here's to many more years at MTGS *clink*
I would play Daretti, Tinker and a few others at 360, no problems. No chance for Mindslaver though.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
You could definitely add Goblin Welder to a 360 too when you have that other support, since Welder/Daretti are so much better when redundancy is that much easier to guarantee.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
True that. I love the old etchings in the background, it looks so crazy and omnipotent.
Also thanks for the comments on artifact-matters in 360! I'm basically completely out of slots b/c im doing whatever I can to make sure aggro has a chance with more burn and effective little guys, but if I had even 3 more slots... Oh boy.
This is still the best place for high-power-level cube chat & debate.
Here's to many more years at MTGS *clink*
I don't care for hats. I wore baseball caps when my head was shaved mostly to prevent sunburn while outside for too long. I also have a unhealthy attraction to that Indiana Jones / Fedora hat that Alan Grant wore in Jurassic Park. I had one and looked stupid wearing it. But I didn't care. I liked it. I don't know what happened to that hat, but I'd probably buy another one if I wandered into a store and saw one in a color I liked.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
Ach! Hans, run! It's the....
Tarmogoyf
BONUS QUESTION
If you run this card, how did you get your 'Goyf?
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
I remember the guy next to me pulled one in MM2 draft, so I haven't gotten mine yet )-:
I got my 'goyf not long after Future Sight released. I bought a playset from my buddy for forty bucks. I've since sold three of those, but one of them still sits in the cube.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
This is how I feel. It's cool when it's big and dumb, but when it's not big and dumb you feel reallyyyyyy stupid for running it. We cut it a LONG time ago and have not looked back.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
My Goyf (along with my ABU duals and select older impossible-to-find-without-taking-out-a-mortgage cards) is one of those fancy foil renders that you used to be able to get online for a few before Wizards brought down the hammer.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
I played the booster box lottery for what's probably my last time with MM2 and pulled 'Goyf in the 4th to last pack, and wouldn't have come even close to getting my money's worth out of that box without it. My cube was still very much a work in progress at the time, and I was sorely tempted to just sell or trade it off to get other staples I was still missing. Another user from this forum talked me out of it, reminding me that I'd probably never have another chance for a Tarmogoyf unless I'd be willing to pay cash for it in the future. And he's right, I never would be.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
I had a foil FUT Goyf from a trade back in the day, which I sold to buy a MM one (and a ton of other stuff) since I liked the artwork better on that. I avoid dark foils.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I agree with this, it feels really gross to pay one to attack with a 4/4 mutavault or factory.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
At the end of the Future Sight prerelease, I tried to buy a Tarmogoyf from another player. I thought it would be decent in cube, so it was on my acquisition list. I offered 5 €. He declined. I offered 8 €. He asked for 10 €. I wasn't willing to pay that much money for that card and walked away. After that prerelease, I took a break from Magic until Lorwyn came out. The cruel part of this story is that I was willing to pay 8 € for a Goyf and could have gotten one for 3-4 € during the first few weaks after the tournament. But the next time I paid attention to the game and to card prices, Goyf had already gone through the roof. After it had rotated out of standard, I bought one for a bit below 40 € and felt bad about it. Considering that it now costs more than 100 €, I feel a bit less bad about it though.
I really like both the art and the flavor text on the MM versions. Therefore, I would like to swap my old Goyf for one of those.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
I was a kid, and a very naive one. At a Lorwyn draft, somebody saw that I had the Goyf and he offered an unfavorable trade for me... The days when TCGplayer and sites like that weren't popular.
Of course, it was a rip-off by thousands of dollars, and to this day, that person makes fun of me because of that trade... He is a sad person, but it is what it is.
I hope that one day I could forgive him and acquire the money for a foil one just like I had back in 2006, but now, I don't have even nonfoil Tarmogoyf in my cube, and I don't plan to anytime soon.
The card is good, but not that broken in our environment, and I don't feel the need to proxy one.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Do you think it's a powered cube vs unpowered cube difference that accounts for this? I ran Gorf in early versions of my cube and my experience echoes others (that is was inconsistent and very cuttable).
This is actually really interesting to me because I believe small differences in cube lists, player tendencies, etc. can account for a great deal of variance in card performance. Not all cards, but some.
The fact that Gorf gets bigger based on ALL graveyards I suspect is the key to why this works better in some cubes versus others. It's not about YOUR deck getting multiple card types in the yard as much as it is the collective sum of you and your opponent. Point being, in the exact same deck list Gorf can be underwhelming or it can be huge largely based on what deck you face off against.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!