MTG Salvation

Probably Waif first. But ya, I'd cut all 4 before Jackal Pup.

Quote from willdice »

Quote from wtwlf123 »

Pup is nowhere near the bottom of the 1-drop list in red, so I don't think that it's a good cut even if you're removing another 1-drop for this guy.

So, you'd rather cut one of Goblin Glory Chaser, Monastery Swiftspear, Reckless Waif or Stromkirk Noble and not the Pup? Which one?

Of the mentioned I only have Stromkirk left in my cube. And that interacts well with this new card, and is generally more popular than the little pup in my playgroup.

I have already cut pup and not one has missed it. Jackal Pup has become the poster child of behind the times creatures in my cube. Sure is served a purpose but that purpose always got bolted into feel bad moments. My group prefers to not run cards too functionally similar(except elves) and with Firedrinker Satyr in, they have preferred other things.

My current order of Aggro red one drops
Tier 1
1. Goblin Guide.
2. Zurgo Bellstriker
3. Grim Lavamancer
4. Firedrinker Satyr

Tier 2
5. Monastery Swiftspear
6. Goblin Glory Chaser

Tier 3
7. Stromkirk Noble
8. Reckless Waif

This card easily beats out waif and is probably #5 on the list. Wizards has been toying with more powerful one drops in standard for a while and aggro isn't out of control so expect to see more/better in the future. We haven't observed it as much in red because many of the ones that see standard play were powerful based on in print synergy (Foundry Street Denizen etc.)

I can still use another 2/1 in red so this doesn't replace any of the current includes.

Instant staple, yes.

I don't think this replaces any of my current red 1 drops but it does mean the next cubeworthy red 1 drop will. Not sure what to cut yet, but clearly, this goes in.

Cheers,
rant

Bye bye Swiftspear!

Wow. This is the first Staple in this set. Sure-fire slam dunk

I love that this thread has become a place to discuss red 1-drop hierarchy. I generally agree with dschumm's assessment, though I might would probably swap GL and FS, then put GL and MS on their own tier.

Quote from noshadowkick »

Bye bye Swiftspear!

This seems incorrect. Has she underperformed?

I've found with Swiftspear that most of the decks where it performs best are creature heavy and mana-light, meaning that you are typically getting 2 power at best and not on average, which is kinda meh. I've never really thought swiftspear has been a good cube card and thoroughly enjoy my opponents playing them.

I must live in another reality than people here, because swiftspear has been amazing and clearly better than the jackal pup type cards.

I play a powered cube so there's the mox interactions which are favourable, and run a fair bit of burn (slightly higher burn ratio than most cubes I've seen her but only small).

But all the damage analysis I've done on the card confirms my experiences.

I remember playing on the modo cube after reading a discussion that blew my mind comparing goblin glory chaser and swiftspear. Literally the first game, I visited magical Christmas land..

Turn 3 with swiftspear in play.
Wheel of fortune, fortune on the stack, fireblast my opponents brimaz, play mox pearl, play sol ring, cast shrine of burning rage , attack for 6.

I would love to see these poor swiftspear performances first hand, as in my experiences, my analysis and my playgroup experiences the card is clearly above an elite vanguard.

I'm not surprise they're printing red 2-power one drops without drawback, after Zurgo Bellstriker (which technically has a drawback, but it's almost irrelavant). Still glad that they do.

Quote from LucidVision »

I must live in another reality than people here, because swiftspear has been amazing and clearly better than the jackal pup type cards.

I play a powered cube so there's the mox interactions which are favourable, and run a fair bit of burn (slightly higher burn ratio than most cubes I've seen her but only small).

But all the damage analysis I've done on the card confirms my experiences.

I remember playing on the modo cube after reading a discussion that blew my mind comparing goblin glory chaser and swiftspear. Literally the first game, I visited magical Christmas land..

Turn 3 with swiftspear in play.
Wheel of fortune, fortune on the stack, fireblast my opponents brimaz, play mox pearl, play sol ring, cast shrine of burning rage , attack for 6.

I would love to see these poor swiftspear performances first hand, as in my experiences, my analysis and my playgroup experiences the card is clearly above an elite vanguard.

I mean in practice even if you aren't comboing out like that, Swiftspear generally swings as a 1.5/2.5, I think its pretty strong without magical christmas land.

My cube has an irrational hatred of firedrinker satyr, so i think I'll be cutting that. (I really do not know why, they just hate the satyr.)
This is super greedy but i wish the madness clause was more inclusive, I'd love to just have that clause in the cube, but there is no way "creatures you own have madness..." will jsut be free text, which it would probably need to be to be included.

I only rank swiftspear in tier two because my group doesn't like it as much as me. It is best in low creature count heavy tempo/combo decks like spells matter. Or in boros builds with lots of equipment. The haste is savage on it. I doubt I would ever cut it, but it performs worst in the standard red deck that some people like.

My R tier system:

First tier is most aggro cards, with rankings based on drawbacks versus advantages
1. Zurgo Bellstriker
2. Goblin Guide
3. Firedrinker Satyr


Second tier is mostly tempo, with some aggro overlap (i definitely don't consider GL an aggro card, especially these days)
4. Monastery Swiftspear
5. Grim Lavamancer
6. Jackal Pup

Tier three is a mix of holdovers from bygone eras and newbies with narrower playability windows
7. Stromkirk Noble
8. Goblin Glory Chaser
9. Reckless Waif

It's insane how low Monastery Swiftspear is on everyone's lists. I think its the second best red 1 drop behind Goblin Guide. In no world would I ever cut that card. I also don't have any sentimental attachment to Jackal Pup but with that said I don't think the dog has passed its time. I can still take more red 1 drops without cutting anything.

No love for Goblin Welder?

For me, I'm at:

1. Goblin Guide
2. Zurgo Bellstriker
3. Grim Lavamancer
4-5. This new guy
4-5. Firedrinker Satyr
6. Jackal Pup
7. Stromkirk Noble
8. Reckless Waif
9. Monastery Swiftspear
10. Goblin Glory Chaser

I don't have Swiftspear or GGC in my cube, as I've found them to be less exciting than I want them to be.

Quote from happyjosiah »

No love for Goblin Welder?

I don't include that card in the 1 drop red discussion. In my opinion he lands in a package with Daretti and Bosh. The three are in and out of red (In think in the 450-540 range) depending on your artifact support and if you are powered. Just like Kikki, Twin and Conscripts ... all three or none.

Ooh, this definitely tips Tibalt over the edge now, right? Right?

Quote from dschumm »

Quote from happyjosiah »

No love for Goblin Welder?

I don't include that card in the 1 drop red discussion. In my opinion he lands in a package with Daretti and Bosh. The three are in and out of red (In think in the 450-540 range) depending on your artifact support and if you are powered. Just like Kikki, Twin and Conscripts ... all three or none.

I like this philosophy.

Quote from Cythare »

1. Goblin Guide
2. Zurgo Bellstriker
3. Grim Lavamancer
4-5. This new guy
4-5. Firedrinker Satyr
6. Jackal Pup
7. Stromkirk Noble
8. Reckless Waif
9. Monastery Swiftspear
10. Goblin Glory Chaser

I've the same ranking. Some like Swiftspear more but, without a lot of burns or reaction spells, I think he sometimes feels a bit underwhelming. It's the only one card in this list that could be rank differently depending on cube's size and content. Other than that, I feel like Falkenrath Glutton easely fit at 4th or 5th rank.

The madness ability is basicly flavor text, but sometimes may still give flash to some of your vampires.

My group – mostly newer, casual players – doesn't get Pup, so this is a pretty easy substitution for me.

Quote from Cythare »

For me, I'm at:

1. Goblin Guide
2. Zurgo Bellstriker
3. Grim Lavamancer
4-5. This new guy
4-5. Firedrinker Satyr
6. Jackal Pup
7. Stromkirk Noble
8. Reckless Waif
9. Monastery Swiftspear
10. Goblin Glory Chaser

I don't have Swiftspear or GGC in my cube, as I've found them to be less exciting than I want them to be.

This is my ranking as well other than the fact that I don't think Lavamancer should be on the list with the others since it can't just attack for two power that often or ever. Its not what I am looking for on turn 1 so I wouldn't include it in the list.

I don't run anything below Stromkirk Noble so I am more than willing to add another 3 or so 2 power one drops in red as long as they keep making them.