This card is definitely not going to earn a cube slot on power level, but think about the flexibility. It fits anywhere on the curve in every deck. I don't know if I like it or not but the flexibility is interesting.
I think I like Chimeric Mass more too. It can be shattered, but it dodges all sweepers and sorcery creature removal, and it can be interacted with by artifact-related cards like Trinket Mage and stuff. And like steve_man said, that card hasn't been good for a long time.
Chimeric Mass is much better because it dodges your opponents sweepers, and I haven't cubed with that card for YEARS.
Spending 1 mana to animate is quite a big drawback. I'd say Endless One is better in cube.
This could be another Hangarback Walker that seems weak, but earns its spot because of flexibility. That being said, I think Hangarback is generally a lot better. In aggro, I would prefer this one though.
Chimeric Mass is much better because it dodges your opponents sweepers, and I haven't cubed with that card for YEARS.
But Chimeric Mass requires leaving mana open for an activation and is, therefore, less efficient than Endless One. I think the difference between dropping a 4/4 for 4 that can block immediately and a 3/3 for 4 is actually pretty big when it comes to actual gameplay. One of the reasons Grenzo is so good is that you always get mana/power parity wherever you play him. Obviously this card doesn't have the sweet ability, but I think it's worth considering all the same.
If Grenzo's body were all it took to see play in Cube, then we'd be seeing a lot more of Wildcall. I think the comparison between this and Chimeric Mass is a push, but neither are particularly close to being cube worthy, so it doesn't matter.
Chimeric Mass is much better because it dodges your opponents sweepers, and I haven't cubed with that card for YEARS.
But Chimeric Mass requires leaving mana open for an activation and is, therefore, less efficient than Endless One. I think the difference between dropping a 4/4 for 4 that can block immediately and a 3/3 for 4 is actually pretty big when it comes to actual gameplay. One of the reasons Grenzo is so good is that you always get mana/power parity wherever you play him. Obviously this card doesn't have the sweet ability, but I think it's worth considering all the same.
Chimeric Mass dodging A LOT more removal makes it more efficient, IMO. Afterall, you're not very efficient if you're dead!
Pros and cons of Chimeric Mass
PROS
- Dodges sorcery speed removal
- Dodges both your opponent's AND your own sweepers
- Completely immune to common Terror effects such as Nekrataal / Shreikmaw / Go for the Throat
- Plays well with Artifact Synergy cards
- Plays very well to your own / against your opponent's The Abyss
- Doesn't have to swing into Gideon Jura
CONS
- Has to pay 1 to activate (which to me is more of a blessing than a curse because this is how it dodges so much removal)
- Is vulnerable to Shatter effects (which is a fine tradeoff for the rest of the removal it dodges)
Endless One being a colorless, regular creature makes it vulnerable to every non-Disenchant removal spell under the sun. The reason why Chimeric Mass actually saw play in cubes over every XG dork like Feral Hydra and Ivy Elemental is because of its ability to dodge so much removal.
This card also has a distinct advantage over Wildcall in that it's colorless. Sometimes you really need a 3/3 for 3, or a 5/5 for 5 or even a 1/1 that can carry Jitte. This card gives any deck all of those things, and the flexibility to be as reactive or proactive as needed. I am probably going to test just because we've never seen an X creature that is this flexible.
It's efficient, but that's all it is. You can't reanimate it, cheat it into play, blink it, etc. The problem isn't "this card can be good in X situation," the problem is "will this make it in my deck of 40 cards."
Also, I still think Chimeric Mass is a sweet card and would probably re-add it to my cube if I ever went up to 630.
I just can't see this ever being anything more than a 23rd card when you have no other options available. It's flexible, but man is it ever lackluster. I mean, what cube card would you cut from your deck that actually does something powerful or relevant for you? It'll be a good draft creature and a solid performer at the prerelease, but this is Cube...
If Grenzo's body were all it took to see play in Cube, then we'd be seeing a lot more of Wildcall. I think the comparison between this and Chimeric Mass is a push, but neither are particularly close to being cube worthy, so it doesn't matter.
On one hand, it's just a scalable vanilla threat. Pretty boring stuff and not something I go out of my way to cube with. On the other hand, it can go in every single deck imaginable as a curve filler at any CC. The flexibility there is crazy. I think others are right in that it's a 23rd card in every list, but will it be like the quintessential 23rd card in draft? This card could be so flexible that it ends up making virtually every deck list as a generic creature that fills in whatever hole you wound up with during the draft.
On one hand, it's just a scalable vanilla threat. Pretty boring stuff and not something I go out of my way to cube with. On the other hand, it can go in every single deck imaginable as a curve filler at any CC. The flexibility there is crazy. I think others are right in that it's a 23rd card in every list, but will it be like the quintessential 23rd card in draft? This card could be so flexible that it ends up making virtually every deck list as a generic creature that fills in whatever hole you wound up with during the draft.
You're not wrong, that's just very boring and I'd rather something more exciting, not the perpetual 23rd/last-picked card. There's probably some archetype enabler or cool card that I wouldn't be running over this, and that would feel bad to me. It was the same issue with Chimeric Mass, and as others said that's been out of cubes--or at least mine--for a long time.
I don't think it'll come anywhere close to making the cut in every deck. When it does make the cut, it'll be as the 23rd card because you don't have any other options.
The problem isn't "this card can be good in X situation," the problem is "will this make it in my deck of 40 cards."
This is exactly the problem of this card. There will certainly be points during a game where I would like to have it in my hand, but I would never put it into my deck during deck construction, simply because there will always be better cards to include.
As for Grenzo, Dungeon Warden: Costing zero colors rather than costing two colors is very relevant, both for deck construction and cube construction (doesn't take up a valuable guild slot). However, losing the mana sink card advantage ability is also very relevant. Grenzo almost never made it into decks, so I recently cut him. For this reason, I can't see myself cubing with Endless One. If Grenzo didn't make it into decks - even though BR decks turned up every other draft at least - how could a creature without the strong ability make it into decks?
I don't think it'll come anywhere close to making the cut in every deck. When it does make the cut, it'll be as the 23rd card because you don't have any other options.
My guess is this will be a classic example of YMMV. There are 3 things that could make experiences with this card vary considerably.
1. Power level of the cube. How good is a generic vanilla beater like this which can be cast at any CC in any color combination? If this is far below the power level of the average cube play, it will not make a lot of lists. If it's only slightly below the average, it may be a very desirable filler piece.
2. Player skill level (specifically draft). If your players rarely make mistakes during the draft and always wind up with beautifully crafted piles of playables, then the need for filler is going to be much lower. My group is pretty casual and so many deck lists wind up being less than ideal.
3. How much of your cube gets drafted. If have a group like mine that routinely has only 4-5 players, the quality of decks you can build is generally lower due to the high variance of drafting a smaller percentage of the cube. This ties in a bit with number 1 above since it makes the value of a flexible vanilla beater higher.
With all that said, I'm still most likely going to pass on this card. But I may pick one up and try it out just for fun. You never know.
I think a Xcc X/X is simply below the curve. Plus this is really boring!
It is possible to include this, though. I would imagine it to be around 13-15 th pick. Id hate draft before I get this.
If it was an artifact it would be slightly better for me because of the interactions, but still wont make it in my regular cube. (Though in an artifact cube it would be in 100%)
3. How much of your cube gets drafted. If have a group like mine that routinely has only 4-5 players, the quality of decks you can build is generally lower due to the high variance of drafting a smaller percentage of the cube. This ties in a bit with number 1 above since it makes the value of a flexible vanilla beater higher.
Do yourself a favor and start glimpse drafting! It's by far my favorite draft format now. You see a large portion of the cube, the drafting format becomes complex enough to add a new layer w/o making it too complex for new players to not know whats up, and the decks are ******* sweet. I would need to consistently be drafting with 6+ players to not be glimpse drafting.
This card is definitely not going to earn a cube slot on power level, but think about the flexibility. It fits anywhere on the curve in every deck. I don't know if I like it or not but the flexibility is interesting.
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This could be another Hangarback Walker that seems weak, but earns its spot because of flexibility. That being said, I think Hangarback is generally a lot better. In aggro, I would prefer this one though.
But Chimeric Mass requires leaving mana open for an activation and is, therefore, less efficient than Endless One. I think the difference between dropping a 4/4 for 4 that can block immediately and a 3/3 for 4 is actually pretty big when it comes to actual gameplay. One of the reasons Grenzo is so good is that you always get mana/power parity wherever you play him. Obviously this card doesn't have the sweet ability, but I think it's worth considering all the same.
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Chimeric Mass dodging A LOT more removal makes it more efficient, IMO. Afterall, you're not very efficient if you're dead!
Pros and cons of Chimeric Mass
PROS
- Dodges sorcery speed removal
- Dodges both your opponent's AND your own sweepers
- Completely immune to common Terror effects such as Nekrataal / Shreikmaw / Go for the Throat
- Plays well with Artifact Synergy cards
- Plays very well to your own / against your opponent's The Abyss
- Doesn't have to swing into Gideon Jura
CONS
- Has to pay 1 to activate (which to me is more of a blessing than a curse because this is how it dodges so much removal)
- Is vulnerable to Shatter effects (which is a fine tradeoff for the rest of the removal it dodges)
Endless One being a colorless, regular creature makes it vulnerable to every non-Disenchant removal spell under the sun. The reason why Chimeric Mass actually saw play in cubes over every XG dork like Feral Hydra and Ivy Elemental is because of its ability to dodge so much removal.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Also, I still think Chimeric Mass is a sweet card and would probably re-add it to my cube if I ever went up to 630.
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It will make a lot more final 40s in Sealed and Winston, if I had to ptedict a role for this card.
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On one hand, it's just a scalable vanilla threat. Pretty boring stuff and not something I go out of my way to cube with. On the other hand, it can go in every single deck imaginable as a curve filler at any CC. The flexibility there is crazy. I think others are right in that it's a 23rd card in every list, but will it be like the quintessential 23rd card in draft? This card could be so flexible that it ends up making virtually every deck list as a generic creature that fills in whatever hole you wound up with during the draft.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
You're not wrong, that's just very boring and I'd rather something more exciting, not the perpetual 23rd/last-picked card. There's probably some archetype enabler or cool card that I wouldn't be running over this, and that would feel bad to me. It was the same issue with Chimeric Mass, and as others said that's been out of cubes--or at least mine--for a long time.
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My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
As for Grenzo, Dungeon Warden: Costing zero colors rather than costing two colors is very relevant, both for deck construction and cube construction (doesn't take up a valuable guild slot). However, losing the mana sink card advantage ability is also very relevant. Grenzo almost never made it into decks, so I recently cut him. For this reason, I can't see myself cubing with Endless One. If Grenzo didn't make it into decks - even though BR decks turned up every other draft at least - how could a creature without the strong ability make it into decks?
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
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My guess is this will be a classic example of YMMV. There are 3 things that could make experiences with this card vary considerably.
1. Power level of the cube. How good is a generic vanilla beater like this which can be cast at any CC in any color combination? If this is far below the power level of the average cube play, it will not make a lot of lists. If it's only slightly below the average, it may be a very desirable filler piece.
2. Player skill level (specifically draft). If your players rarely make mistakes during the draft and always wind up with beautifully crafted piles of playables, then the need for filler is going to be much lower. My group is pretty casual and so many deck lists wind up being less than ideal.
3. How much of your cube gets drafted. If have a group like mine that routinely has only 4-5 players, the quality of decks you can build is generally lower due to the high variance of drafting a smaller percentage of the cube. This ties in a bit with number 1 above since it makes the value of a flexible vanilla beater higher.
With all that said, I'm still most likely going to pass on this card. But I may pick one up and try it out just for fun. You never know.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
It is possible to include this, though. I would imagine it to be around 13-15 th pick. Id hate draft before I get this.
If it was an artifact it would be slightly better for me because of the interactions, but still wont make it in my regular cube. (Though in an artifact cube it would be in 100%)
Do yourself a favor and start glimpse drafting! It's by far my favorite draft format now. You see a large portion of the cube, the drafting format becomes complex enough to add a new layer w/o making it too complex for new players to not know whats up, and the decks are ******* sweet. I would need to consistently be drafting with 6+ players to not be glimpse drafting.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic