Does anyone have experience with this card in the cube? For folks that are supporting both token decks and spells matters decks, this card looks solid. I think the easier cost and the potential for the flashback puts it ahead of something like Conqueror's Pledge, and the fact that it's a sorcery so it triggers Prowess and other triggers seems relevant. And if you also support a WG token/ramp deck (like we do) with like Elesh Norn and Mirari's Wake and stuff, the card gains even more value. It looks like a card that could be a fringe inclusion on its own, but might gain a lot of value if there's three different archetypes in the cube that would greatly desire it. I might give it a test for a while and see how it does.
I recommended this card to you on your thread probably about a year ago at this point!
We've been playing it for a long time and have always been big fans of the card. It's pretty nuts in the token deck, great with purphoros, amazing in control shells since it's both a finisher and an army of blockers, and now with the prowess guys it's great there too. The flashback is pretty reasonable at 9 mana considering the power you're getting, as your army can stall a game to that point if need be. Plus they are all humans so that's nice if that's an incidental archetype in a cube.
Supporting the spells matters deck is what made me more interested in it. I know it looks good for token/anthem decks, and for Wake Ramp decks too. But adding all the prowess and instant/sorcery triggers to it, and with potential flashback, makes it a cool card for those shells. The face-value on the card is decent, not stellar, but I think the power it can have in the right deck is what might push it into being a worthwhile inclusion.
I'd rather (and do) run Secure the Wastes. It plays better in the "spells matter/control", "white weenie" and "token" decks. If increasing devotion were an instant I'd handily play it however, 5 and 7 mana, respectively, is a pretty awful commitment on your turn.
I'd play Secure the Wastes first too. It compares well with Tempt with Vengeance I believe.
I do like the 'cantrip' part of Increasing Devotion though. It can be played two times which is nice for Spells Matter as you pointed out.
I do play Secure the Wastes first. And because of how the instant/sorcery "creature" spells have been playing in these kinds of decks, I was looking for another good effect. I think this might be one of them.
Interesting card to go with tokens and spells matters indeed. I put it on our list with possible future adds.
Different colour but we have been very happy with Horldling Outburst in red. it has performed solidly in token and spells matters decks. Other cards we like for those decks you don't run are Manamorphose (always main decked here, even in random decks). Maybe you should give Empty the Warrens another go as well. With spells matters and a couple of free spells (Frantic Search, Manamorphose, Gitaxian Probe, Noxious Revival) it is has just been a good token card. You don't have to go hell bent on storm (haha) to have it be more than decent.
(All this might be better in your personal thread, but hey it is tangentially related with Increasing Devotion)
I was thinking about Outburst too; I really wish it had a 2R cost, because a lot of the decks that want it are light in red. Thanks for the recommendation!
I ran this card until Theros set brings us the Sun Champion version of Elspeth and it was fine. Not crazy though but fine. My cube was not full powered at this time and this makes me feel it could be better now that it is. Plus the spell matter archetype has been boosted up recently and this could be another piece of it.
But have you ever test Elspeth Tirel? She's not a instant/sorcery, but she triggered prowess and Purphoros as well. She acts pretty well in other shell to, better than Increasing Devotion IMO. However, not triggered the spell matter card like Talrand, Pyro and Guttersnipe could hurt but I thinl she's certainly more versatile.
I personnally feels that ID is a bit too fair as an individual card for the cube, but maybe I'm wrong about it. Anyhow, I'm pretty surprise the card didn't have its own thread until now. I think it deserves one for sure.
EDIT : Oh, yes Outburst seems like a legit addition. Could brainstorm on that.
Another Spells Matter / Token card that could go straight in to these kinds of decks could be Timely Reinforcements.
It could be a great card in a deck with Monastery Mentor / Young Pyromancer / Purphoros and lots of noncreature spells.
A problem could be that it might be too good against aggro and an instant include from a sideboard after 1 game against these decks. Or is that a problem?
/\ /\ /\ Timely Reinforcements is a good control card against aggro, but it's not a great card for other decks because it faces consistency issues. Token decks don't usually have less creatures out than the opponent.
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But did you ever test Elspeth Tirel?
Yes. She was good in midrange token decks, but that was about it. I've played her multiple times in the cube and she just never impressed. I think the better power/cost ratio on ID and the way it fits into multiple archetypes will make it a better overall performer.
Another Spells Matter / Token card that could go straight in to these kinds of decks could be Timely Reinforcements.
It could be a great card in a deck with Monastery Mentor / Young Pyromancer / Purphoros and lots of noncreature spells.
A problem could be that it might be too good against aggro and an instant include from a sideboard after 1 game against these decks. Or is that a problem?
I don't like the risk of it being a dead card in too many circumstances. An easy pass for me.
Timely Reinforcements has been amazing for us, we regularly comment about how perfectly named the card is whenever it is cast. Of course it's not a good card for a token aggro deck, just like how 1 mana 2/1s are not good for a control deck. Usually for us this card goes in a U/W/x control deck to buy time to get to their Wurmcoils and such. If you're looking for an aggressive white token producer, go for something like Raise the Alarm or Gather the Townsfolk. Timely Reinforcements just doesn't aim to fill the same role as cards like those, and it shouldn't be evaluated as if it did.
I do play Secure the Wastes first. And because of how the instant/sorcery "creature" spells have been playing in these kinds of decks, I was looking for another good effect. I think this might be one of them.
I'm guessing battle screech would be the next most powerful instant/sorcery "creature" spell that you aren't playing.
Seems better than this card, though I have played neither in a cube enviornment. Requires more set up than increasing devotion (white creatures) but also a strong card in white token decks.
Wouldn't be surprised if martial coup filled the same roll increasing devotion does... but better.
Neither Battle Screech nor Martial Coup are as good as Increased Devotion in the WG token/ramp deck. And I really don't need any more 4cc white cards, and the quantity of white creatures in spells matters will make flashing back Screech difficult. And the spells matters deck doesn't want Coup to sweep away its engine creatures that the deck is built around, nor does WG token/ramp want to sweep away all the token/anthem creatures it uses. So I guess I'll just have to disagree that those two cards would be better for the kinds of decks I want Increased Devotion for. Screech is better for just tokens, and Coup is better for generic control, but neither of those options play well in all the decks I intend to play Increasing Devotion in.
I curved Monastery Mentor into Battle Screech, using the new monk to help the flashback on screech, making another monk, smashing for 4. Next turn I smashed in with the 7 creatures, cast Dictate of Heliod, laughed maniacally.
But screech is a little more hit and miss than some like. I just really like their evasion, as dorks on the ground have less value with the more expensive spells.
Increasing devotion is definitely one I will try again now that I am running wake.
I also recently subbed Empty the Warrens in for Tempt with Vengeance, and it plays much better in the spells matter deck, while being just about as good in the token deck. I don't support true storm but it has been much better than Outburst.
I've been considering putting Increasing Devotion into the cube after reading this thread a few days ago. I don't really want to cut a noncreature spell, since I would categorize this as a creature spell. Given that I'd probably categorize this as a 5-drop, what are others thoughts on cutting Wingmate Roc for it?
Roc would be my cut if I try this out. Both are nice in wake/anthem decks. Both cards mostly want to attack.
And everyone remember to try out Sundering Growth. It's not much harder than naturalize to cast out of the green decks, and the incremental value is money. Yes it often just makes a dock, but in my cube it has made Voice tokens, 3/4 Rocs, 5/5 Armada Wurms, 4/4 angels, and silly stuff with wurmcoil.
My problem with Sundering Growth is that I would want to put it in the guild section, and I can't justify making room for it over plenty of other Selensya cards.
How about don't put it in the guild section. It sees play in W/X and G/X decks plenty. The G/W decks take it highly because they have a lot of token options in my cube. I also brought it up because so many people have made changes to the way they categorize things after Khans block, and with the more liberal categorizing I think more people should be running it. Just try it over naturalize for a while. As it is you are running two hybrid cards in your guild section and giving fewer rewards to the G?W drafters than the other guilds.
How about don't put it in the guild section. It sees play in W/X and G/X decks plenty. The G/W decks take it highly because they have a lot of token options in my cube. I also brought it up because so many people have made changes to the way they categorize things after Khans block, and with the more liberal categorizing I think more people should be running it. Just try it over naturalize for a while. As it is you are running two hybrid cards in your guild section and giving fewer rewards to the G?W drafters than the other guilds.
I support this thinking. But then it has to compete with WW and GG cards (or I think it should be competing with those). Is a disenchant that white and green can both play that populates worth a WW or GG spot? It might be. Would it replace disenchant/naturalize? Or be played along side them?
We've been very happy with Sundering Growth for years now. It sees play all the time thanks to its being hybrid, is good without populate and great with it. Even getting a lowly soldier often amounts to card advantage, and getting anything better is just insane value.
How about don't put it in the guild section. It sees play in W/X and G/X decks plenty. The G/W decks take it highly because they have a lot of token options in my cube. I also brought it up because so many people have made changes to the way they categorize things after Khans block, and with the more liberal categorizing I think more people should be running it. Just try it over naturalize for a while. As it is you are running two hybrid cards in your guild section and giving fewer rewards to the G?W drafters than the other guilds.
I support this thinking. But then it has to compete with WW and GG cards (or I think it should be competing with those). Is a disenchant that white and green can both play that populates worth a WW or GG spot? It might be. Would it replace disenchant/naturalize? Or be played along side them?
I decided to drop naturalize because I play the on a stick creatures but I have disenchant in the white section. As my token support went up I added this to my misc section and it has worked out great. It isn't like a WW or GG card for a few reasons. Those cards get into trouble as the are usually 2 drop creatures for play on turn two. Sundering growth comes out a little later and gets the max value and is easy to cast. Also GG or G/W out of a G/X deck is sooo easy
Sundering Growth was a cool Selesnya card, but changing Disenchant from 1W to WW is a HUGE deal for a lot of decks that want that spell, especially in powered cubes where having a reliable early answer to Moxen or reanimation enchantments is important. In an unpowered cube, I could see that casting cost difference being less important.
Increasing Devotion
Does anyone have experience with this card in the cube? For folks that are supporting both token decks and spells matters decks, this card looks solid. I think the easier cost and the potential for the flashback puts it ahead of something like Conqueror's Pledge, and the fact that it's a sorcery so it triggers Prowess and other triggers seems relevant. And if you also support a WG token/ramp deck (like we do) with like Elesh Norn and Mirari's Wake and stuff, the card gains even more value. It looks like a card that could be a fringe inclusion on its own, but might gain a lot of value if there's three different archetypes in the cube that would greatly desire it. I might give it a test for a while and see how it does.
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We've been playing it for a long time and have always been big fans of the card. It's pretty nuts in the token deck, great with purphoros, amazing in control shells since it's both a finisher and an army of blockers, and now with the prowess guys it's great there too. The flashback is pretty reasonable at 9 mana considering the power you're getting, as your army can stall a game to that point if need be. Plus they are all humans so that's nice if that's an incidental archetype in a cube.
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I do like the 'cantrip' part of Increasing Devotion though. It can be played two times which is nice for Spells Matter as you pointed out.
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Different colour but we have been very happy with Horldling Outburst in red. it has performed solidly in token and spells matters decks. Other cards we like for those decks you don't run are Manamorphose (always main decked here, even in random decks). Maybe you should give Empty the Warrens another go as well. With spells matters and a couple of free spells (Frantic Search, Manamorphose, Gitaxian Probe, Noxious Revival) it is has just been a good token card. You don't have to go hell bent on storm (haha) to have it be more than decent.
(All this might be better in your personal thread, but hey it is tangentially related with Increasing Devotion)
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But have you ever test Elspeth Tirel? She's not a instant/sorcery, but she triggered prowess and Purphoros as well. She acts pretty well in other shell to, better than Increasing Devotion IMO. However, not triggered the spell matter card like Talrand, Pyro and Guttersnipe could hurt but I thinl she's certainly more versatile.
I personnally feels that ID is a bit too fair as an individual card for the cube, but maybe I'm wrong about it. Anyhow, I'm pretty surprise the card didn't have its own thread until now. I think it deserves one for sure.
EDIT : Oh, yes Outburst seems like a legit addition. Could brainstorm on that.
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It could be a great card in a deck with Monastery Mentor / Young Pyromancer / Purphoros and lots of noncreature spells.
A problem could be that it might be too good against aggro and an instant include from a sideboard after 1 game against these decks. Or is that a problem?
Yes. She was good in midrange token decks, but that was about it. I've played her multiple times in the cube and she just never impressed. I think the better power/cost ratio on ID and the way it fits into multiple archetypes will make it a better overall performer.
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I don't like the risk of it being a dead card in too many circumstances. An easy pass for me.
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I'm guessing battle screech would be the next most powerful instant/sorcery "creature" spell that you aren't playing.
Seems better than this card, though I have played neither in a cube enviornment. Requires more set up than increasing devotion (white creatures) but also a strong card in white token decks.
Wouldn't be surprised if martial coup filled the same roll increasing devotion does... but better.
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But screech is a little more hit and miss than some like. I just really like their evasion, as dorks on the ground have less value with the more expensive spells.
Increasing devotion is definitely one I will try again now that I am running wake.
I also recently subbed Empty the Warrens in for Tempt with Vengeance, and it plays much better in the spells matter deck, while being just about as good in the token deck. I don't support true storm but it has been much better than Outburst.
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And everyone remember to try out Sundering Growth. It's not much harder than naturalize to cast out of the green decks, and the incremental value is money. Yes it often just makes a dock, but in my cube it has made Voice tokens, 3/4 Rocs, 5/5 Armada Wurms, 4/4 angels, and silly stuff with wurmcoil.
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I support this thinking. But then it has to compete with WW and GG cards (or I think it should be competing with those). Is a disenchant that white and green can both play that populates worth a WW or GG spot? It might be. Would it replace disenchant/naturalize? Or be played along side them?
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
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I decided to drop naturalize because I play the on a stick creatures but I have disenchant in the white section. As my token support went up I added this to my misc section and it has worked out great. It isn't like a WW or GG card for a few reasons. Those cards get into trouble as the are usually 2 drop creatures for play on turn two. Sundering growth comes out a little later and gets the max value and is easy to cast. Also GG or G/W out of a G/X deck is sooo easy
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