Strong card.
Not great with powered/ramp starts (something I like in 6 drops), and can occasionally eat a removal spell for no value..
But, there are times when silumgar changes a bad situation to a great situation in a way that very few cards in cube can.
Played with silumgar a lot, I rank him either #3 or #4 in dimir.
Not uncuttable tho and don't expect him to be in my cube in a few years.
Good card. Can really turn a game around. Yes, he dies to removal (thus negating his effect on the board), but if you snatch a ready-to-ultimate planeswalker or keep him in play one full turn, you should just win.
And even if they do untap and kill it, you can still guarantee some value out of it by removing a blocker for a turn or getting an activation off one of their planeswalkers.
Since it isn't essential to any particular strategy I think I'll pass for now. Dimir control decks don't need any help anyway so I'm going to use the slot for specific archetype support ('Tog or Duskmantle Seer probably).
Since it isn't essential to any particular strategy I think I'll pass for now. Dimir control decks don't need any help anyway so I'm going to use the slot for specific archetype support ('Tog or Duskmantle Seer probably).
Since it isn't essential to any particular strategy I think I'll pass for now. Dimir control decks don't need any help anyway so I'm going to use the slot for specific archetype support ('Tog or Duskmantle Seer probably).
Thanks for the feedback everyone!
I personally like it more than both.
Hmmm... Psychatog is one the most powerful dimir card of all time. With all the respect I have for Dragonlord Silumgar, I think it's nowhere near to the 'Tog in terms of powerlevel. Tezz and Strix are also arguably better IMO. But I agree on Duskmantle Seer. Seems more like a pet card to me.
I don't run Tezz because I no longer support artifacts deck (Tinker stays in for being a cut above the rest). I currently run Strix, Silumgar, and Creeping Tar Pit. Tog was good, but I (along with many posters if you read the Dimir and tog thread) believe that Tog times has pass.
This has been awesome. Been drafting it a lot on the powered cube on MTGO. That's not the tightest list in the world, but the card is still more than pulling it's weight in an environment with the most broken cards in magic history.
Hmmm... Psychatog is one the most powerful dimir card of all time. With all the respect I have for Dragonlord Silumgar, I think it's nowhere near to the 'Tog in terms of powerlevel. Tezz and Strix are also arguably better IMO. But I agree on Duskmantle Seer. Seems more like a pet card to me.
Duskmantle Seer is a bomb in the UB Tempo deck and it brings something lacking to the archetype in my cube. Compared to the 4-drops in either blue or black, it's an extremely fast clock, and it doesn't just fold to most burn spells. I admit I have my pet cards but the Seer isn't one of them. And it looks like Dragonlord Silumgar is mostly used in UB/UBX control decks (correct me if I'm wrong I really have 0 exp with this card) which already received a huge boost lately with cards like Languish and Mystical Confluence, and really didn't need any help anyway. Tough to justify adding a gold card to boost decks that are drafted often and already doing well.
To be fair, UB Tempo decks crush drafts pretty regularly here without Seer, and the 6cc creature slot is pretty barren for UB control, with basically only Grave Titan and Consecrated Sphinx in that slot. There are a lot of interchangeable finishers you can play there instead, but the effect is powerful and unique, and it can pull you out of losing situations where other creatures might not do the trick. Especially with the planeswalker theft portion of the ability. I like Duskmantle Seer a lot, but I found that my tempo decks were fine without it (especially with Whirler Rogue available now), and that my UB midrange & control decks are both really happy with the Dragonlord.
Between the two decks it's definitely UB control decks that are drafted more and just come together (and are more succesful) with less effort. It also has access to Wurmcoil and Upheaval/Time Spiral. PW theft sounds good so the next time I'm in the market for a UB finisher I'll check out Silumgar.
In our last draft I stole LotV twice in the same match. Combining it with Sower and control magic in the same deck is just back breaking. It is a respectable blocker and is well liked by the group. As much as I loved the Seer my tempo decks never needed a 4 drop when they couldn't find one, but my control decks need a big top end. It isn't great in a really low creature deck but it isn't coming out any times soon.
To be fair, UB Tempo decks crush drafts pretty regularly here without Seer, and the 6cc creature slot is pretty barren for UB control, with basically only Grave Titan and Consecrated Sphinx in that slot. There are a lot of interchangeable finishers you can play there instead, but the effect is powerful and unique, and it can pull you out of losing situations where other creatures might not do the trick. Especially with the planeswalker theft portion of the ability. I like Duskmantle Seer a lot, but I found that my tempo decks were fine without it (especially with Whirler Rogue available now), and that my UB midrange & control decks are both really happy with the Dragonlord.
UB tempo almost never comes together in my cube :/
Is the ideal build basically black agro, splashing blue for permision? Or is it a bit more midrangey?
Mostly curious about the 1-2 drop slot.. What cards are key and what % of the curve is composed of these cards.
Take your black aggro suite and play the tempo counters, bounce and mana-efficient blue creatures. Generally the 3cc slot is the powerband, with payoff cards like TNN and Clique. But the 1's and 2's are going to be cantrips, aggro beaters, disruption spells, splashable counters and bounce spells. You can cap it off with something like Opposition or the like, especially if you snagged a Bitterblossom.
I'm at roughly 450 right now. I run 4 cards per guild. But I was looking at things, and thinking that I could go down to 3 cards per guild if I moved some flexible cards like the hybrid one-drops and perhaps Fire // Ice into the rainbow section. This would allow me to keep some sweet cards in the gold section while also freeing up room by cutting largely redundant or not-great cards like Detention Sphere, Fires of Yavimaya, etc.
The problem is that I support the artifact deck, so Strix and Tezz are definitely in Dimir, and Tog is just too powerful to cut. Dragonlord Silumgar seems to be the odd card out, but it's a sweet effect in a spot that doesn't really have all that much competition in U or B at 6 mana. I suppose I could just move it to the rainbow section, but that feels dumb.
So talk me out of this card. I'll be freeing up a slot each in my monocolor sections, so if you've got an idea of some control finisher that might make me miss this less, I'm all ears.
Alternately, tell me about how I'm overrating this card.
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@MikePemulis: I run 4 cards in my cube (excluding mana), and if I had to cut 1, it would be Silumgar (keeping 'Tog, Strix and Tezz). So I think your gut evaluation was correct. Great card, but I think the slot is more easily filled during the draft process by other blue/black 5+cc threats, so I think it's the most replaceable.
Not a fan of Ashiok. It's a standalone card that has no other synergies, and can be basically dead against some number of decks. Ashiok has one live ability out of the gate, and it doesn't interact with other cards. It's hard to think of a card with a more polarizing split on this forum.
Psychatog is great for us for a number of reasons: it makes combat math impossible and acts as a combat trick, which cube could use more of; it's a discard outlet for reanimator; it's a finisher for control, and one that you can drop on t5 with countermagic protection; it's awesome in UB tempo; etc.
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I run three Dimir cards at 450: Tog, Tezz, and Strix. I wouldn't change that unless I stopped supporting the artifact deck. Silumgar is nice, but blue and black don't lack finishers at 6+ mana.
I don't really like Silmugar. It is only really great against midrange decks, but blue has plenty of expensive cards that own that matchup. Against control, Silumgar has less targets and does not pass the Vindicate test. Against aggro, the creatures you steal are generally near useless for you and it plays bad defense the turn you play it (what you steal is usually tapped). Being bad on an empty board or against tokens are other issues. Plus, monocolored options are very strong at the six drop slot.
It is only really great against midrange decks, but blue has plenty of expensive cards that own that matchup. Against control, Silumgar has less targets and does not pass the Vindicate test. Against aggro, the creatures you steal are generally near useless for you and it plays bad defense the turn you play it (what you steal is usually tapped). Being bad on an empty board or against tokens are other issues. Plus, monocolored options are very strong at the six drop slot.
I can see much of what you're saying here except for the last sentence. Blue has two strong creature finishers in Consecrated Sphinx and Aetherling, but black only has Grave Titan, and that's a hot card for lots of archetypes. Slide down a CMC to 5, and blue has Mulldrifter, which isn't a control finisher, and Meloku, which isn't very generically strong, while black has Shriekmaw, which isn't a control finisher, and Custodi Lich, which is better. The arrival of Liliana, Death's Majesty might help this.
This is all moot anyway. I'm just taking the plunge and cutting the thing.
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Silumgar is a fine card, but his downfall is that he's not great in cheaty face strategies, especially compared to mono-colored titans with the same cmc. This drastically limits his role to midrange / control decks, making him less versatile than other high-end fatties.
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Not great with powered/ramp starts (something I like in 6 drops), and can occasionally eat a removal spell for no value..
But, there are times when silumgar changes a bad situation to a great situation in a way that very few cards in cube can.
Played with silumgar a lot, I rank him either #3 or #4 in dimir.
Not uncuttable tho and don't expect him to be in my cube in a few years.
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I personally like it more than both.
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Hmmm... Psychatog is one the most powerful dimir card of all time. With all the respect I have for Dragonlord Silumgar, I think it's nowhere near to the 'Tog in terms of powerlevel. Tezz and Strix are also arguably better IMO. But I agree on Duskmantle Seer. Seems more like a pet card to me.
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Also, I already run both Tezz and Strix
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UB tempo almost never comes together in my cube :/
Is the ideal build basically black agro, splashing blue for permision? Or is it a bit more midrangey?
Mostly curious about the 1-2 drop slot.. What cards are key and what % of the curve is composed of these cards.
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I'm at roughly 450 right now. I run 4 cards per guild. But I was looking at things, and thinking that I could go down to 3 cards per guild if I moved some flexible cards like the hybrid one-drops and perhaps Fire // Ice into the rainbow section. This would allow me to keep some sweet cards in the gold section while also freeing up room by cutting largely redundant or not-great cards like Detention Sphere, Fires of Yavimaya, etc.
The problem is that I support the artifact deck, so Strix and Tezz are definitely in Dimir, and Tog is just too powerful to cut. Dragonlord Silumgar seems to be the odd card out, but it's a sweet effect in a spot that doesn't really have all that much competition in U or B at 6 mana. I suppose I could just move it to the rainbow section, but that feels dumb.
So talk me out of this card. I'll be freeing up a slot each in my monocolor sections, so if you've got an idea of some control finisher that might make me miss this less, I'm all ears.
Alternately, tell me about how I'm overrating this card.
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Psychatog is great for us for a number of reasons: it makes combat math impossible and acts as a combat trick, which cube could use more of; it's a discard outlet for reanimator; it's a finisher for control, and one that you can drop on t5 with countermagic protection; it's awesome in UB tempo; etc.
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Strix
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Silumgar
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Psychatog
I don't really like Silmugar. It is only really great against midrange decks, but blue has plenty of expensive cards that own that matchup. Against control, Silumgar has less targets and does not pass the Vindicate test. Against aggro, the creatures you steal are generally near useless for you and it plays bad defense the turn you play it (what you steal is usually tapped). Being bad on an empty board or against tokens are other issues. Plus, monocolored options are very strong at the six drop slot.
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I can see much of what you're saying here except for the last sentence. Blue has two strong creature finishers in Consecrated Sphinx and Aetherling, but black only has Grave Titan, and that's a hot card for lots of archetypes. Slide down a CMC to 5, and blue has Mulldrifter, which isn't a control finisher, and Meloku, which isn't very generically strong, while black has Shriekmaw, which isn't a control finisher, and Custodi Lich, which is better. The arrival of Liliana, Death's Majesty might help this.
This is all moot anyway. I'm just taking the plunge and cutting the thing.
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